"To the limit"

[CDNTech]

I've seen people call other posters liars when they claim their kid has outgrown a seat, and accuse them of just being anxious to forward face and looking for an excuse.

Although I've never said this outright, I could see how a few of my posts could be misconstrued this way.

Let me just clarify that I *don't* have a problem with a parent wanting to/turning a child FFing once they've reached the minimum limits... it is their right as the parent.

I just wanted it made clear on that thread, that it does not look like he has outgrown the seat RFing. I wanted that made clear for lurkers and was not trying to hurt the OP in any way. I tried to be tactful when posting and I'm sorry if you took it another way. I also tried to present options IF you wanted to RF him again... I did *not* say those were your only options.

I'm also a mom who has her 2 yr 8 mo old child FFing at 28lbs and I'm perfectly comfortable with that. He has not outgrown either of his seats RFing, I just made the parental decision to FF him because it is much easier to deal with the winter boots... yes, I know that's lame and if he was younger than 2 yrs we'd be dealing with them RFing, but he's looking pretty proportionate these days and I'm not as worried about keeping him RFing. Our limit on our seats here is also 30lbs and I'm just not one of those "weigh your kids everyday" kind of people.

ETA: I believe the original post had the child listed with a torso of 12.5" (not your child, but from a different board). That was the child that so many people could not believe had actually outgrown the seat RFing.

 

[Jewels]

My son has RF to the limits of his seat just like the AAP recommends so I felt okay with my decision to turn him FF. I just felt put off when I was told my only options were to make my son uncomfortable or spend a large amount of money when in reality I had kept my son RF to the limits of his seat and did the very best I could with my situation.

Just remember that everyone will have an opinion. By your pictures it does look like he has room but you were very clear that there is only 1" above his head. We are only looking at a picture, we can't feel what you are feeling. You as the parent have to make the best decision for you child and I think you did great keeping him rf as long as you did. I didn't know anything about erf and my son was turned ff at 12months. I did learn about erf before the max weight limit was reached of his seat (he was with in 2-3lbs) and I left him ff because he gets carsick.
Anyways sorry if you felt that people were giving you a hard time because of your picture and you turning him ff.

 

[Starlight]

Splash, I think I love you. I could go lesbian, just for you. (Shh, don't let dh read that, he might hold me to it.) :ROTFLMAO:

Anyway, I feel the same way. My ds2 is itty bitty - 20 months and has been maybe 24 lbs or so since his 1st birthday. But I tell you, once he hits 2, I don't care if he FF or RF. We've actually turned him once before. We have made 6-7 13 hour drives in the past few months, and on one, it was sooooo bad, and it was raining, and we were in the middle of nowhere. We pulled to a rest stop, I flipped his seat, and the little brat was fine. As soon as we made it to our destination, I flipped him RFing again, and ... the little brat was fine. He drives me crazy.

Shhhh, and a little known secret about me. I will NOT buy a Regent. When my kid outgrows the Radian (he's already outgrown the MA), he can go in a booster. In fact... my 5 yr old rides in boosters 90% of the time. And when we're on vacation, he rides in backless boosters. In fact, he rode in his first booster at 2.5. Okay, this was not by my choice, and I wasn't really okay with it. But I am perfectly comfortable having him, at age 5, ride in a booster. I was even fine with occasional rides at 4. (He does still ride in harness seats for long trips though, so don't flame me too much, okay? He doesn't like the Radian as his full time seat, since it hurts his "man bits." He tells me there isn't enough room for his "large p----.")

 

[Auntie2Avi]

I am not a tech but I have mixed feelings about RF to the limit. Avi was 33 lbs naked at the dr when he was 18 months. I turned him FF the next day. I thought about getting him a Scerena to RF for 2 extra lbs but he typically gains weight very quickly and I did not want to buy another seat for 2 lbs. We have a spare seat already, the DC and we do not fly often. If we had gotten him a Scerena he would have gotten about 3-4 months out of the seat, because everything I have heard here has been to use the weight of the child at the end of the day with clothing rather than their naked weight at the DR. I also could not imagine going from two of the most expensive seats on the market at the time to a $40 Scerena. I know all seats pass the same standards and laws but there are reasons we spent the $$ to get a seat with EPS foam and the other nice features of Britax seats. While I would like to see kids RF to 33/35 lbs, or the limits of their seat weight wise, there are other circumstances to take into account, and people should not be judged. If a person knows about ERF and understands the safety benefits, why do you need to keep pushing your point?

 

[Morganthe]

just thinking. I have been for 6 months, actually, since the first insult I received for turning my son around. It doesn't bother me in the least, but some people it would bother a lot.

You've received insults for turning your child around??? How nuts is that?!

I think some need to step back to make a choice on what they want to have a mission about child safety. Is it more important to get 100% carseat compliance with correct fit & connection for all children, or to rant about rfing to the ends of the earth?

Yes, rfing to the limits of the seat is the IDEAL choice. But faced with real people who pooh pooh even getting unexpired seats for their children, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee!

If I was a tech around here, I'd just be thrilled to see older babies & toddlers in 5pt harnesses properly secured to the vehicle. Instead, they're in 3pt seatbelts or just standing up in the ext cabs of trucks Oh Booster seats at age 2-3 is very common! It's insane. I don't even go looking because it just completely disgusts me. People will spend more on fancy clothes for their kids than a safe & comfortable seat.

anyway, jmho.
And those who sent insults to Splash -- Shame on you!

 

[Connor's Mom]

He tells me there isn't enough room for his "large p----.")

CLASSIC! :ROTFLMAO:

I honestly would not have even thought to buy a Regent for my son until I found this site. I will freely admit that I was one of those that turned FF before the limit of the seat. He is now over the RF limit so it is not an issue anymore. I will keep him harnessed in the Regent until he outgrows it or it expires whichever come first. With the way it is looking with his growth in height I do not expect him to make it to 8 which is when the seat will expire. I will be placing him in a booster in DS's car when he outgrows the MA or it expires when he is 6, if he makes it that long with out outgrowing it.

 

[keri1292]

I think it's hard to separate your personal beliefs from what's best/actually going to happen for another poster.

For my family, I want my kids RFing until at least 3½. That's about 30lbs for my kids. Quinn is the tiniest and he'll be RFing until 4½. He weighs 26lbs now. He should be 28 next year. I may turn him next winter. Stupid, muddy boots. And I would RF to the max if I didn't have top tethers.
I'm also a guilt driven person. I (this is ONLY how I feel about me) couldn't live with myself if we were in an accident and my child was injured/killed while FFing and was still well within the RFing limits. The "what ifs" would send me to the loony bin. I know this about myself and it's a preventative suicidal guilt measure for me. I am anxious and guilt ridden by nature.

For others, the evidence we have so far is clear that RFing until at least 2 has major benefits. Parents have the right to know that. We just need to present the info in a kind way so they can make the best choice. Also, if kiddo is top tethered FF, they deserve to know that their children are still very safe. Imagine, a teen is offered abstinence education ONLY. Has sex anyways and gets an STD. Teen is outraged to know that a condom would've prevented that. So, I say offer the info/facts and let the parent make the best decision.

I wouldn't buy a seat to RF for 2 extra pounds if my kid was older than 24 months/28lbs. Before that mark, absolutely. I know my guilty conscience wouldn't rest until I did. My kids are also skinny with giant noggins. They need to get some weight on them before we FF. Although, you bring up a good point...what is safer? A bare bones RFing Scenera or a tethered FFing MA?

As an AP parent, I understand mental health. I would have to weigh the definite risks of emotional heartache due to RFing with the risks of a top-tethered FFing seat with a happy kiddo. If I never have an accident, all that mental damage was for nothing. If I do, and the outcome is poor, I have to live with that. Kinda like cosleeping. If my baby dies from SIDS while nestled up to me, I'll have to live with the slim possibility that it wouldn't have happened had I not done A, B or C. But, I cosleep and wouldn't dream of doing otherwise.

I'm sorry that you felt judged Splash.

 

[ZephyrBlue]

I can definately see your point, Splash. When someone comes to this site asking for help, a barrage of "Your child should be RF. Period. We're not going to make any other suggestion, because it's not going to be as safe as RF" isn't very conducive to educating non-car seat folks.

OTOH, I don't think that people should come to this site and expect people (techs and non-techs alike) to support their decision to turn a younger child (under 2) when there are other options. Obviously in a medical situation (where the child is vomiting or has some sort of sensory disorder where RF causes a problem), it should be a no-brainer. And insulting anyone for making an educated choice is just plain low-class and rude I have seen people come here and say that they have made a choice to keep their under-2yo FF, even though they know that RF is safer, because of convenience (not convenience related to any medical issue on the part of the parent or child), not wanting to buy another seat, etc. and really reaching for hugs and "that's okay, he/she is perfectly safe FF". I don't think that CPS educated people should be telling others that FF is fine under the limits of the seat, in general.

That said, I have 2 kids that are technically able to RF and they're both FF. My DD who will be 5 in almost 3 weeks is 31lbs, and my 32mo DS is 28lbs. DD doesn't want to RF anymore because of comfort and leg room was an issue for DS. It doesn't matter what other parents think of your parental decisions. If you're fine with them, then that's what you have to go on. But don't ask others to validate your decisions when they may not be the safest practice, IMO.

ETA- Splash, I'm not referring to you with my general "you". I think you're doing an amazing job parenting Charlie, Estelle. Not that what some random woman on the internet thinking you're doing a good job matters, but wanted to say it anyway

 

[Gena]

Splash, thank you for posting this.

One of my first posts on this forum was about how I ended up turning my son FF at 20 mos, 27 lbs even though e was still within the RF limits of his seat. The short version: a difficult family situation made it necessary for Hubby and I to live in different states for several months and caused me to need to make many 5 hour car trips with our son. DS had never done well in the car, but before then we had been able to have one of us drive and the other sit in the back with him, which helped. The first trip driving with DS by myself was a disaster. He was RF and screamed the whole 5 hours, no matter how often I stopped or what I tried to calm him down. I was completely distracted, my nerves were bad and I felt like an accident waiting to happen. So the next trip I turned DS FF and he did great - no crying, no screaming. We were both calm and I felt that we were both much safer.

When I posted about this, a few people did flame me. A couple people wrote that I was being selfish, or that they would rather have a live crying child than a dead child. Other posters did support me and understood my decision.

What I didn't post at the time (because I was new and I didn't know the people here and didn't think it was really anyone's business) was that a year later DS was diagnosed with Autism and sensory problems. One of his most severe sensory issues is an intolerance for backward movement. This is something that we work on a lot in OT. He is making progress. Now at 3.5 years old he can tolerate riding in the shopping cart, most days. He still cannot handle riding on a swing or amusement park rides that go backwards. The people who flamed me for turning my son "early" (even though he RFed longer than most kids) most likely have no idea what we go through on a daily basis to achieve the little things they may take for granted.

As I've said before, I believe in ERF and I believe that it is safest, all things being equal. But sometimes all things are not equal and what is right for one child may not be right for another.

 

[brightredmtn]

I'm happy first trying to educate the world on how to use their harness correctly. I see more twisted loose straps around kid's shoulders than harness straps used correctly. If the average parent can't even be convinced that the harness should be snug then there is no way they're going to ERF.

 

[cryswilkins]

ITA with Splash.

I a few months ago posted that we had a car break down on the side of a 6 lane expressway and the person that came to pick us up had a very small car and I had to install my DD's MA FF for the 4 mile ride home. Boy was that a mistake. She was 4 days short of her 1st birthday, but within the weight limits. I made a parental decision. No it was not the decision that some would have chosen, but in the end she is still my kid.

It doesn't hurt my feelings, I am tough cookie, but I think that some could take it the wrong way. (and no I have not been stewing about this for months I am just using it as an example ) I think that sometimes people need to take a step off their soapbox and think for a minute before they post.

This did not stop me from posting here, but I think that this is a great forum overall. Whenever I am put off by something that someone posts I just remember that it is only the internet

 

[ZephyrBlue]

I'm happy first trying to educate the world on how to use their harness correctly. I see more twisted loose straps around kid's shoulders than harness straps used correctly. If the average parent can't even be convinced that the harness should be snug then there is no way they're going to ERF.

This is a great point. Before I could educate a friend about the benefits of ERF, I first had to convince her that her 3yo was not safe in a backless booster. Getting completely hung up on one aspect of CPS doesn't do much for car seat safety as a whole if you can't recognize all of the "steps" that are involved.

 

[Mama!]

Ok, well I haven't read all the replies, but I am one who has gone "both ways".

My dd was turned the day of her 1st Bday, at 18 lbs. Sure, I didn't know any better, but she was violently carsick every trip til I turned her FF. Then she was fine.

IF IF IF I had known about ERF, it wouldn't have made a difference, I don't think. SHe was obviously miserable and sick RF. It got OLD washing puke 5x a week or more. Her poor seat got naiiled more times than I can count.

So I turned her WAY early. And Honestly, I don't know if I would change that

Then there's my ds.

he does MISERABLY FF. Hates it. Cannot ride like that for long without melting into himself.

I have gone to ridiculous lengths to keep him RF longer, and yes, I would buy a foreign seat if I could get away with it.

Do I get offended by the zeal of the posters here? Nope. Would I have gotten raked over the coals with dd? Sure.

The truth is that ERF *IS* safer. EH *IS* safer. Would I make someone feel like crap for not doing it? I hope not.

But I think the overall tone of the site HAS to be "Best practice", and best practice is ERF and EH, followed by a booster til the kid passes the 5 step test.

Just my 2 :twocents: Now off to read the rest of the replies.

 

[Mama!]

and not only will i NOT cry when i have to turn DD2, i will REJOICE (for my own sanity)! :evil grin: :duck:

Can I just agree quietly with this? ERF is the right thing for my ds, but MAN OH MAN will I be glad when I don't have to climb up to load and unload him!!!

 

[MsFacetious]

I have pretty much quit even telling people because no one listens. My attitude is that I know MY kids are safe. At least I won't be the one losing a child. The one that REALLY bothers me is my niece.

She was maybe 17lbs and 10 months old when they turned her. I begged, pleaded, even CRIED for them to turn her back around. They lied and told me they did. She is now 14 months old, not 20lbs and forward facing.

Why does this upset me?

A) I gave them 3 Boulevards under the agreement that they would use them rear facing to the limits of the seat. They have removed the HUGS and refuse to order new ones. Therefore I have told them these seats are not even safe to USE forward facing.

B) They do not install the seat well, often just route the seatbelt through and don't bother to use the lock offs, never tether it and she isn't strapped in tight enough. When she was still in the Companion at Christmas 2006 I was able to take her out of the seat without undoing the straps. That is how loose they are.

C) She was an IVF baby which they took "donations" in order to have. Instead of doing artificial insemination which had worked in the past. On the 1st try actually, but SIL stopped her Progesterone too early.) So OTHER people paid for this child and they are not even doing the bare minimum to keep her safe, in my opinion.

It makes me so angry that after trying so hard to have a baby they don't keep her safe, my SIL goes back to work full time when she doesn't need to. She has the kid in daycare and complains that she gets sick a lot. She was miserable with her husband for the last 7 years but still went to all this work to have a baby with him and now that she has the kid she is divorcing him.

Yeah... really, that family drives me insane with their insane attitude towards things I consider important.

However, I simply ignore it. I don't get close to the child, practically ignore her actually. I don't need to be bonded to a child when she gets killed. If she was JUST forwarding face in an appropriate seat, used correctly, installed well, etc... I would be upset (because they ASKED me for advice) but I could live with it. It is the blatant disregard and feeling that nothing will happen to them that drives me insane.

I just hope I never have to post here that she became a statistic. But, things do happen. And anything can happen. People should take the precautions.

I may tend to be more judgmental because of the battle my girl's have had to stay alive and healthy. Of course it upsets me when people who get perfectly healthy kids don't do everything they can to keep them safe. But, at the 2 year and 30lbs mark I drop it. I think if at all possible people should RF until then. Barring medical, other reasons. We personally worked through the medical reasons to keep my girl's rear facing past that point, but I can understand those that don't.

But yeah, that's just my opinion.

 

[RubysGirl]

Thankyou, Splash.

I, too, was not feeling the love around this place when I turned DS. (even though nobody said anything directly to me.) It sucks.

 

[Splash]

Hey, my sister in law turned both her kids FF straight out of the baby basket. I think she's a flaming moron and a horrible parent and not the world's best person. But, that's different. That's just plain old being stupid and not caring in the least whether her kids live or die (same reason she drank all through her first pregnancy and said about her kid, "I don't care if it's stupid as long as it's cute"). But now my younger sister (well, kind of), will be turning my niece ON her first birthday, in the Marathon that I bought them. She knows RF is better, but she has her reasons. Some of her reasons are very valid. An entire childhood of abuse, save the time she lived with us (not my bio sister), coupled with major anxiety issues... and she FREAKS OUT if Annabelle is crying or fussing and she can't see her, touch her, tend to her. Is that enough for *me* to turn my kid around? No. But I know Patty and I know how this affects her, and I know how she gets as soon as Belly starts fussing. She's keeping her RF to the minimum, and then she'll turn her FF in a top tethered seat in the center position. Safest? No. Safe? Yes. And given her reasons, I would not freak out on her about it.

I don't feel attacked or judged for turning Charlie, it doesn't bother me what other people think about it. But some people would be bothered by it... and had I seen some of this stuff said to me when I was brand new here and didn't know how passionately most people cared, I would probably have looked the other way.

 

[cpsaddict]

Thank you, Splash! This has been bugging me for a long time. Even when someone comes on asking about a ff seat for their 20-21 mth old and they clearly state they do not want to rf anymore, they get no help in selecting a seat. I would rather help the parent select a good seat and help with installation, than see them run off to Target and buy a $50 Cosco hbb and install it incorrectly. Then in a few months switch it to a booster. A properly installed 5pt harness IS safe for a child that meets the requirements(especially tethered). Yes, I will mention that *I* would prefer the child be rf, but I will also help them get a good seat that will keep that child harness for a long time. RF is safER for kids under the weight limit, but there are many different circumstances that need to be considered, not the least of which is any of our business.

JM:twocents:

 

[BABYGIRLLYNDSEY]

Thankyou, Splash.

I, too, was not feeling the love around this place when I turned DS. (even though nobody said anything directly to me.) It sucks.

Nice post on this whole topic. All three of my older kids were turned at the recommended 1 yr age. That is what the pediatrician told us to do. I didn't know about the benefits of ERF. Karley, my 2.5 yr old stayed RF for 22 months. We turned her at 23 mo. Although I would have preferred to keep her RF it was time to turn her. That is what worked for our family. I am pleased that I was able to keep her RF longer than recommended and hope that people here don't look down their nose at me for turning her.

 

[Mama!]

I'm also a guilt driven person. I (this is ONLY how I feel about me) couldn't live with myself if we were in an accident and my child was injured/killed while FFing and was still well within the RFing limits. The "what ifs" would send me to the loony bin. I know this about myself and it's a preventative suicidal guilt measure for me. I am anxious and guilt ridden by nature.

This too. Are you my long lost sister?