"To the limit"

[LuvBug]

Thanks for bringing this up

I personally think everyone should rearface, we should have energy efficient smart cars, and fix daylight savings time. But since we don't live in my world

I try to educate people to go to the limits of their seat, but if they can't then it isn't the end of the world. I personally like to see a minimum of 2y or 30lbs, but I'm not going to judge, push, and guilt someone else into doing it. If you educate them and they still feel their child should be FFing, then so be it. They will still be safe as long as their seat is appropriate for their situation and used correctly.

I've always been very pro-ERF... yet when DS neared the 33lbs mark I turned him. As much as I'd loved to have kept him RFing, I didn't feel it was necessary to go out and spend $120+ on an intera just for him to make it another 3 months. And when he lost 2lbs right after being turned, I didn't turn him back around just because at that time he was able. And when my sis told me she wanted to turn my niece before the 33lbs mark, I didn't give her flack because DN was over 2y and she knew what was right for them.

Sometimes we maybe need to be reminded that we are here to educate. NOT to tell parents what to do, how to do it, and hold their hand through every step of the way.

 

[Kat_Momof3]

Estelle - I'm not here as often as I'd like, so I missed the drama here but I remember when you posted about it on your blog and I did comment that I totally agreed you made the right decision.

I compromised with Jeffrey and let him come out of harnesses at age 6 because he was mature enough and physically ready to be safe in a booster. I would have liked him harnessed longer, but it i just as well... he's now too big for the Radian OR Regent less than 6months later... I would not want to be worrying about it in the middle of winter... cold rainy... ick

I really do think it's all a matter of picking battles and doing the best we can as moms and carseat geeks.

Ilana - I remember (back when I was better and got on the windsorpeak board a lot...I just don't have the time these days) when Avi hit that weight limit... and I totally agreed with you then and do now. I mean, he was under 2, so I suggested the Scenera as an option, but would have done what you did... and now he's so big he'll be needing a Regent or Nautilus or Radian, so its just as well... he's a tall boy!

I'm not a tech yet, but I've already been there for awhile at the point where I'm happy if they are properly restrained and ecstatic if they are even open to learning more.

 

[PixieEMT]

Sometimes we maybe need to be reminded that we are here to educate. NOT to tell parents what to do, how to do it, and hold their hand through every step of the way.[/QUOTE]

I have to tell myself that all the time.

We can't force our ideas on people. We can't force them to read their manuals. We can't force them to do their research on ERF or HWH seats. We can just supply them with the knowledge and resources. Unfortunately when it comes to CPS ignorance isn't bliss......it's deadly.

ERF is the best thing you can do for your child. I agree "pushing it to the max sometime" gets a bit outrageous.

Some people are lucky enough to have smaller children but my DS is very large for his age. He is 15 months 27lbs (clothed) and 34" and still RF in his MA and Touriva. He might (or might not) make it to 2 y/o RF. I feel that if : He slows down alot and we can RF till 2 y/o + GREAT! If he keeps growing like the big boy he is... he's healthy and we'll have to FF. I've done my job the to best of my ability.

 

[AdventureMom]

I think that when many of us on here respond to turn a child around, or to keep him/her RF, we are doing so because we may think that the parent hasn't heard otherwise. Once they are educated about the matter, then it is their choice and we should move on.

I guess I try to explain it b/c I had *no idea* about ERF. None at all. Not until I came here a little over a year ago and DS was about 34-35 lbs. I wish I had known and I'm grateful we were never in an accident since we turned him at 11 months old. But when we turned him, I thought *I was doing what was safest, what I thought I was supposed to be doing.* Alot of people don't realize RF is safer; they think turning them is safer.

So educating folks, like alot of PPs said, is what we're here for. But if someone turns a child, it's their choice. And many folks have alot of good reasons. It's not our job to judge, just educate.

 

[amyg530]

i agree that we need need to look at the bigger picture sometimes and every situation is different.

when we had our playgroup christmas party i had the chance to give a carseat lecture (b/c one of the babys snugride straps were completely backwards) and took the opportunity to talk about ERF and showed them all that Connor is RF in his MA in my truck and totally happy about it. and i pointed out to one of the moms that her 18mo would be safer and could still fit RF, but she didnt want to turn her and i didnt push it, her seats were perfectly installed and she was very interested in HWH and i dont want to turn her (or anyone else) off to carseat safety by seeming so set on one thing that it makes other stuff not even heard.

that being said i barely speak to my neighboor now b/c she has had her just turned 4 year old in a booster for as long as i've known her even though she has a harness that fits him and she turned her 1yo FF on his birthday b/c he was 1 and 20. she told me she wanted to do what was safest and acted interested when i told her all the reasons why RF was safer and why her oldest needed to be harnessed but apparently all she was doing was wasting my time. it still makes me mad b/c i spent hours with her trying to figure out a safe way for her to transport her kids (she has a truck with front seats only and jump seats in the back, the baby was RF in a OHS in the front, before he turned 1, and the then 3yo sat on the jump seat with nothing but a lap belt) i even drove them around before Collin was born b/c i had an infant seat her baby fit and made her 3yo use the harnessed seat and she still didnt care.. ugg... sorry to derail it just makes me mad and if there was maybe a reason then it would be one thing but instead she drags her kids out and runs the roads with them not so safe just b/c she can:thumbsdown:

 

[Yoshi]

I didn't read all the replies you got (Wow) but I'd like to say that when I came to the board, DD was almost 3 and already 33 lbs. I of course needed to replace the Comfortsport she outgrew and was helped immeasurably by lots of folks on here. My guess is if she weighed significantly less, I might have gotten the ERF spiel, but as a suggestion, not an absolute. Most of the techs and advocates who advised me gave me awesome info and advice, and that is why I stuck around. Lately, I agree that a more and more militant view of ERF might be turning people off. It is rare, but there are a few of those posts that seem to not help the person and their unique situation. It reminds me of the extended breastfeeding camp.....woe unto the person who actually weans their child before they "should" (whatever that is). I have always been reluctant to mention to people IRL that my DD self weaned at 13 months because the few times I have, people seem to make comments along the lines of "it was only a nursing strike" (wrong) or "babies don't self-wean before XXmonths" (wrong in my case, too) They had no idea what I went through with her, and how I tried in vain to get that kid back to nursing more than 2 minutes total- and how she only barely wet 2 diapers a day. Same thing. We did what we thought was best given the situation. I was just so happy we had 13 months of BF.
And not to rant too much today but why is the Comfortsport called the Crappysport but the Scenera is so well-liked? I hate the Scenera. It is a crappy seat, IMO. The Comfortsport may be outgrown quickly, but it was nice during it's short span of usefulness, LOL! Sorry, I am PMS-ing.

 

[Mama!]

It reminds me of the extended breastfeeding camp.....woe unto the person who actually weans their child before they "should" (whatever that is). I have always been reluctant to mention to people IRL that my DD self weaned at 13 months because the few times I have, people seem to make comments along the lines of "it was only a nursing strike" (wrong) or "babies don't self-wean before XXmonths" (wrong in my case, too) They had no idea what I went through with her, and how I tried in vain to get that kid back to nursing more than 2 minutes total- and how she only barely wet 2 diapers a day. .

LOL! You have apparently been to MDC with your story.

my dd self weaned at 13 mos when i got pg with ds.

So yeah, I heard it too. There was no WAY she weaned herself.

 

[mominabigtruck]

And not to rant too much today but why is the Comfortsport called the Crappysport but the Scenera is so well-liked? I hate the Scenera. It is a crappy seat, IMO. The Comfortsport may be outgrown quickly, but it was nice during it's short span of usefulness, LOL! Sorry, I am PMS-ing.

I think you could be my new best friend I left a site for speaking out about how I thought it was wrong to tell people that they are idiots for spending more then $40 on a seat unless it was a britax. I think instead of telling people how horrible their seat is that they were so proud they just bought is, that we would be way better off just to accept that's what they bought and concentrate on what their next seat will be.

 

[Yoshi]

LOL! You have apparently been to MDC with your story.

my dd self weaned at 13 mos when i got pg with ds.

So yeah, I heard it too. There was no WAY she weaned herself.

No- actually, I didn't even know that site existed back then, thankfully- but it was actual moms at a play group I USED to belong to.

I think you could be my new best friend I left a site for speaking out about how I thought it was wrong to tell people that they are idiots for spending more then $40 on a seat unless it was a britax. I think instead of telling people how horrible their seat is that they were so proud they just bought is, that we would be way better off just to accept that's what they bought and concentrate on what their next seat will be.

Yeah. I don't like it why people ridicule certain seats. If all you have at your local stores are seats A,B,C &D, well, that's what you have to make your choice with. DH and I drove 1 hr to a specialty store to try Britax seats when it was time for a convertible. We could NOT get any of them RF in our car without pushing the passenger up to the dashboard. We tried the Triumph and the Comfortsport, and only got a tight install with the CS.

 

[snowbird25ca]

And not to rant too much today but why is the Comfortsport called the Crappysport but the Scenera is so well-liked? I hate the Scenera. It is a crappy seat, IMO. The Comfortsport may be outgrown quickly, but it was nice during it's short span of usefulness, LOL! Sorry, I am PMS-ing.

You know the funny thing about this comment, is that for how much Britax seats are recommended and loved, when the EFTA shows up here I will be buying it for my ds and my dd will go back in the MA until it's outgrown - or until the Nautilus shows up here, whichever happens first. So yep, I'll be switching ds from a seat that's rf tethered to a seat that isn't. And I have no qualms about it.

When I bought my MA it was hands down the best choice for long term value and ease of use - there just weren't as many choices... now there are more choices, I'm finding I'm not as gung ho about the MA (ds is broad shouldered,) and my Radian just plain bugs the bejeebies out of me sometimes.

 

[mimieliza]

Well, said, Splash, thank you!

When I hear of a parent who keeps a child ERFing for any length of time, I want to give them a pat on the back. If they keep the child RFing to the limits of the seat, past age two, or to 30 lbs., it's especially great.

The vast majority of kids are turned FFing AT or BEFORE 1 year/20 lbs., so any parent who is committed to going beyond those minimums is already making very good choices, even if they don't go to the maximum limit.

Once my DD is at least two years old and 30 lbs., I would turn her around if other circumstances (siblings, carsickness, boredom, outgrown seat) deemed it advantageous.

I also have reservations about using a seat to its limits, either FF or RF, unless absolutely necessary. If a seat is going to fail, it will most likely be at its outer limits.

 

[crunchierthanthou]

I'm a tech because I know the agony of a child dying. I could not bear to lose a child to something preventable. I will not apologize for recommending the safEST option. I recognize that there are extreme circumstances and situations where the child will have truly outgrown every available option. I will not stop recommending that parents do whatever is possible to keep their children rf until age two, no matter the inconvenience.

I also know that there are scenarios where there may be no clear best practice answer and the parents must make a difficult decision. I hope I haven't upset anyone by sharing my opinion in these cases.

 

[amyg530]

Sometimes we maybe need to be reminded that we are here to educate. NOT to tell parents what to do, how to do it, and hold their hand through every step of the way.

:thumbsup:

 

[Synchro246]

I love that this board self-polices (word?) often. Because we are here to educate the impression we make is reallllllly important. I generally stay out of a lot of the non-fluff threads because I'm not a tech, I'm just an advocate so maybe I don't see this issue as much as some of you.
I personally though that most posters have been pretty tactful *most* of the time. Occasionally one or more of us slips up, but usually we clarify. I know this doesn't matter much to the fly-by poster who's just looking for good advice. I do think *most* of us view RFing to the limits of the seat as an ideal to which there are reasonable and varied exceptions.
I had to turn my first at 23 months due to weight and I *was* sad (and fearful), but those were *my* emotions. I wasn't ready. I was jealous of all of you with smaller children who could rf another 6mo or more. I never meant to project to anyone that FFing at 23 months was a bad choice. It was just how *I* felt about the situation.
I know a lot of you think it's silly to fear the day you "have" to FF, but most of you don't have kids under 2 reaching the limits of the seat.
Anyway, I'm starting to ramble.

 

[Holly]

I have to go to work right now so I don't have time to write much. I just hope this thread doesnt go in the other direction and get locked before I have a chance to come back.

By the way Splash, I totally agree with you!

I'll be back in 6 hours, I hope it's still open so I can post!

 

[Mama!]

I also think that because there are so many lurkers here that the response is sometimes a little bit redundant in response to a poster advocating misuse. We want the lurkers to know the correct thing to do/use, right?

So you might get 10 people chiming in to agree with a correction.

 

[Patriot201]

When I posted about this, a few people did flame me. A couple people wrote that I was being selfish, or that they would rather have a live crying child than a dead child. Other posters did support me and understood my decision.

Gena,

I am so sorry that happened to you. I just read the thread in which those comments were made. Wow.

While I am a HUGE supporter of ERF, there are situations in which it is not feasible for some children/parents/situations. You did a GREAT job keeping your son RF to 20 months! Kudos!

I am SO glad you stuck around!

 

[3acorns4Christy]

I'm a tech because I know the agony of a child dying. I could not bear to lose a child to something preventable. I will not apologize for recommending the safEST option. I recognize that there are extreme circumstances and situations where the child will have truly outgrown every available option. I will not stop recommending that parents do whatever is possible to keep their children rf until age two, no matter the inconvenience.

I agree with this, though I am not a tech. I have lost a son and that is pain I never want to feel again especially to something preventable, my baby Joel is healthy, happy and alive. I will do what is safEST for him, when I talk to others about FF vs. RF, if they don't want to hear it I normally do not push unless the baby is under 1yo. But when I do recomend ERF I say at least age 2 or the upper limits of the seat but it is up to the parent to decide which one.

I am not a tech so I don't typically respond to the ERF posts expect that my son is ERF.

 

[katiesmommy]

I'm also a guilt driven person. I (this is ONLY how I feel about me) couldn't live with myself if we were in an accident and my child was injured/killed while FFing and was still well within the RFing limits. The "what ifs" would send me to the loony bin. I know this about myself and it's a preventative suicidal guilt measure for me. I am anxious and guilt ridden by nature.

This is me to a tee. However, I try not to let that affect my posts, but that can be hard. But I'm learning to ease up, especially since my girl has been forward facing since moving here because of necesity.

 

[twinsplusthree]

Splash, thank you for posting this.


When I posted about this, a few people did flame me. A couple people wrote that I was being selfish, or that they would rather have a live crying child than a dead child. Other posters did support me and understood my decision.
...
As I've said before, I believe in ERF and I believe that it is safest, all things being equal. But sometimes all things are not equal and what is right for one child may not be right for another.

I know I'm coming late into the discussion (I couldn't write before church this morning), but I honestly found some of the discussions I've read about ERF to be like those I've encountered discussing E Breast-feeding..You know, I BF my kdis until 36 months, well, I BF until 38...I used to get really caught up in it, too. A hardcore BF advocate, knowing that it is the BEST choice.

Then I had twins, one of whom had failure to thrive. He was basically starving because I could not produce enough milk for the two of them and he just couldn't latch correctly. Under the advice of an LC, we started complementing with formula. Never before had I used it with my other kids so this really knocked me down a peg...anyway, long story shortish, I had to do what I had to do to make the family work and take care of everyone in it. Now, at 14 months, I use formula on occasion, BF on occasion and give cow's milk on occasion and it is the best for us as a family.

I've had to look at ERF the same way. Does that make sense? ANyay, have to go, DH grumpy I'm online...still...