"To the limit"

[DiaSmall]

I'm practically new here... and I'd like to toss in my .02 too.

I'm all for the OP.

Educate.

Yep. Thats it.

I dont mind showing people the benefits of extended rf... but if they want their child ff i dont mind pushing seats that can harness past 40lbs!

Some people are brick walls... I'd rather offer resources to back up my info than tell them flat out that they are wrong.

I have a child that rf till he was 3yo... I think I was compensating for turning him ff at 9mo before i knew better. I turned him rf agian at 14mo when i found BBC CST BB and saw the light.

My 22mo has nearly outgrown his FPSVD rf in torso height & weight... I dont mind him FF at all & he does about half the time.

I drive a Sunfire Coupe too.... had both rf in it for over a year at the same time.

Overall this board is very helpful.. but sometimes its good to get a reminder that this is a lot of peoples first time here... better to give them a good impression so they come back for more advice when they need it.

 

[Holly]

Ok, I'm back now.
I just wanted to say, I agree with most of what everyone is saying.
I totally think ERF is great and I keep my kids RF, but it's just not always an option to do so until exactly 33 lbs, or 35 lbs.
I don't see a problem with turning my dd to FF at 3 years old, which is what I plan to do. I consider age to be more important than weight. My dd was 26 lbs in November, so I'm guessing she'll be about 28-30 lbs by the time she is 3. I'd much rather FF a 28 lb 3 year old than a 30 lb 1 year old, I think the age is a little more important.

I plan to turn her at 3 instead of keeping her to 33 lbs because I feel like RF to 3 is HUGE accomplishment, hardly anyone here RF's past 1 year, and I will have RF'd her an additional 2 years! Also, dh would really prefer her to be FF already. She will have already gotten in some great benefits of ERF, and I can still have won the ERF battle with dh, but then he will be happier too and she will be able to climb in by herself easier, which will be great for me also because I plan to get pg again this year.

I am also wanting to get another HWH seat and give my Scenera to my MIL because her seat is expiring soon, plus we are moving closer to her this summer as well and I know there will probably be times when she will need to take my kids. I can't fit 2 RFing HWH seats in my car. I do plan to get the true fit, but I cant use it RF without the headrest because my dd#2 will be 22 lbs or more by the time I can afford to get one. So, for me, it already is a big deal to have her RFing still, I think RF to 3 is great!
I plan to keep dd#2 RF to 3 as well, but she is chubbier and heavier than dd#1 was at that age, and I have a feeling she might be 30ish lbs before she is 3. If I get pg when I plan to, she will be 2 1/2 when dc#3 comes, and if it's easier to get all 3 dc's in the car with dd#2 FF by then, I think I'll be ok with that.

I had heard of people ERFing their kids before I came to this board, but I knew nothing about it, or why. I figured it was just a preference thing and had no difference concerning safety, I used to think turning a child FF at 1 year and 20 lbs was just something everyone does. So When I joined this board after getting my radian (I was already PRO extended harnessing!) and I mentioned something about my dd being FF at the time, I did get a lot of flack about her being FF. I didn't think her radian would fit RF in my car. I hadn't tried it yet, but I also hadnt researched ERF out for my self just yet and I thought dd would freak to be turned back.

At first when I got told to turn her back around, I was pretty offended that it was being implied that I wasn't doing the best for her. I actually went to my local mommies forum and complained that "safety freaks" were telling me I must RF my 2 year old. For me, ERF was something I had to research on my own to really believe it for myself. I couldnt have just done it because someone else told me to. SO luckily I did stick around and I did research ERF out for myself and I did "convert" to ERFing at that point. But if I had been upset and left and never came back, I might not have ever gave ERF a 2nd thought and probably both dd's would be FF by now! So I totally agree to the saying "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar" because it is SOOO true!
For someone like me, the sweeter the better! I have the kind of personality that I do take things personally and I do get easily hurt. Mean things people say really stick with me for a LONG time!!! I don't get over things quickly at all. I don't think anyone ever said anything directly mean or nasty, but I do remember feeling very judged for having a FF 2 year old!

I'm over it now only because I have realized that ERF is something I believe in and that everyone was just looking out for my dd, so don't worry, I'm not still holding any grudges or anything, and I dont even remember who said what back then.

I'm not saying we have to tell people what they want to hear when they come asking us for advice, but I think there is a better way to mention ERF to newbies without making them feel bad, and then move on and answer their questions if they feel they do want to continue FF (obviously a child older than 1 year and 20 lbs). Pushing the RF issue is only going to frustrate both parties!
I also feel like anyone who ERF's even a little bit is fantastic!
ERF is SOOO not heard of around here that I am just glad people even do it at all!

 

[amy919]

I haven't read all of the replies, but I want to thank you for posting something that I know a few of us have had on our minds for a while. I'm all for ERF and practice it, but it's easy for me since my kids are petite. I will turn then when I feel they are ready - OK, when I am ready . Teagan is 2 and 25 pounds. She'll likely stay RF until she's about 3, because she easily can. BUT, if circumstances were to arise and I need to FF her I would and wouldn't feel badly about it.

This board is a great resource and has helped a lot of people. We've got a great group of people. But ERF is one area that I do think we tend to go overboard. I've posted about it before asking why we're so willing to bend the rules when it comes to RFing our children. We do push people and I think we do tend to put people off at times with our "RF for life" mantra, IMO. I know that this is a very passionate group and I don't think anyone here intends to be judgmental or make people feel bad, but blanket statements are often made by several people about the subject and that's just not fair. We all know that RF is safer. But other factors play into each and every scenario. We constantly use the term "parental decision" on this board, but yet we tend to bash people, or make them feel badly when they turn their children before we think they should. When we do this, we imply that their parental decision is wrong - and that is just not fair and doesn't benefit anyone.

Personally, I won't weigh my children daily or buy another seat to keep them RF as long as possible. I don't need to. For those that have bigger babies, I can understand the need or the desire to do so. It's THEIR parental decision to do this. And that parental decision is supported and applauded.

Honestly, I feel more strongly about keeping kids harnessed past the age of 4 and 40 pounds. Do I think that every person needs to go out and buy a Regent so that their child can be harnessed as long as possible? Absolutely not. I do own a Regent - for my child's comfort. I don't intend for her to sit in it until she's 80 pounds - she'd be in junior high by that point. But I do intend for her to remain in the seat until she reaches a weight and maturity level where I feel comfortable with putting her in a booster full time.

The bottom line is that every situation is different. I think we need to pay more attention to the details in each post and offer suggestions that fit that particular scenario. It's not uncommon here for someone to post about needing a seat and the first 5 replies are all about keeping the child RF as long as possible. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be suggested and the benefits shouldn't be shared. I've said it myself. And I think we should continue to do so. But each situation is different and as long as people are abiding the law, the reality is it is their choice to do what they feel is best for their child. I'd rather support their choice and offer suggestions that fit their wants and needs than put people off for their decision not the RF as long as possible.

 

[skaterbabs]

I strongly recommend all children under two RF, as long as they can by weight. (There's always a taller seat.)

I recommended kids stay harnessed until they're five, but a quiet, compliant four year old may do just fine in a booster.

To me, ERF is more important than EH to age ten or whatever. Unless a child has some kind of issue with sitting still (be it behavioural, a neuro issue, a health issue or what have you) after age five most do just fine in a booster.

My own kids are not petite. Joy will outgrow her MA sometime this year. She may even make it to her fifth birthday first. Will I buy a second Regent after her MA is outgrown? Not unless she shows that she can/will not sit properly in the PW.

The proof that EH is better isn't there yet, but we do have proof that RF to the limits of the seat can mean the difference between life in a wheelchair (or worse) and walking away without a scratch.

:twocents:

 

[abacus2]

Thank you for posting this splash. I do think many of the recent comments about ERFing have been more harsh than helpful. We need to be especially careful about how we bring up ERFing to newbies as many of them have never heard of it before or may even be extremely careful parents who have followed their car seat's manual, asked their pediatrician, followed the law, etc. ERFing is a new concept to many people and should be brought up gently, and not to the exclusion of answering their original question. It's also helpful to keep the perspective that an older child in a properly installed, tethered FFing seat is extremely safe, and unusually so, given the amount of misuse and early booster usage that abounds. Also, the very safEST option isn't always the best option overall, as life also involves financial, health, and practical concerns in addition to safety.

 

[Mama2J]

I agree also that it is best to educate parents on safest practice while also answering their questions to find the best solution for their situation. When I first started researching car safety, I didn't know about ERF or EH. It was too late for us to do ERF (well with the seat I had anyway), but if it had been sooner, I definitely would have wanted to know about it, so I could make an informed decision. If J had been less than 2 years old (he was about 28 pounds then) when I found this site, I would have been open to finding a seat he could RF longer in, and would have likely bought a convertible rather than the Regent.

All this rambling to say, yes I do think there is a middle ground between recommending safest practice and being pushy about it. I know from IRL experience with people I know (and me not being a tech), that I only recommend a next step up to what they are doing, if I say anything at all. I've realized everyone's situation is different, and I'm truly happy when I see even the minimums being met.

Splash, you have gone above and beyond minimums, and from what I have seen have found solutions each step of the way to the best of your ability. :thumbsup:

 

[unityco]

I was jealous of all of you with smaller children who could rf...

Me too. I got flack about turning my son at 9.5 months. He was 30lbs naked at that age, and the limit of RF seats in Canada is 30lbs. Some people suggested I leave him RF, beyond the limit of the seat because it was safer (FTR, he was in an Evenflo seat that RF to 30lbs on both sides of the border.) I was really surprised by that - I didn't feel it was safer to turn my DS into the proverbial "crash test dummy" and test the seat's tolerances. I was glad to see recently that this group urged another poster in the same boat to turn their under-1yo FF because he was unsafe RF beyond the limits of his convertible seat. (Not glad he had to turn, but glad to see the party line had changed and was in alignment with my own thoughts on the matter - it made me feel better about the choice I had made.)

I was all ready to RF my son to the limit, and actually I did. Unfortunately, the limit for us didn't even meet the minimum recommendation

 

[safeinthecar]

technically, my DD1, who hasn't ERF'd since 2yr/30lb, is still technically "eligible" to ERF in her como, but it ain't gonna happen. and not only will i NOT cry when i have to turn DD2, i will REJOICE (for my own sanity)! :evil grin: :duck:

I would, however, love to see a pic of her in it rfing, just for size comparison purposes. Think maybe that can happen??

*begs prettily*

 

[Kat_Momof3]

Me too. I got flack about turning my son at 9.5 months. He was 30lbs naked at that age, and the limit of RF seats in Canada is 30lbs. Some people suggested I leave him RF, beyond the limit of the seat because it was safer (FTR, he was in an Evenflo seat that RF to 30lbs on both sides of the border.) I was really surprised by that - I didn't feel it was safer to turn my DS into the proverbial "crash test dummy" and test the seat's tolerances. I was glad to see recently that this group urged another poster in the same boat to turn their under-1yo FF because he was unsafe RF beyond the limits of his convertible seat. (Not glad he had to turn, but glad to see the party line had changed and was in alignment with my own thoughts on the matter - it made me feel better about the choice I had made.)

I was all ready to RF my son to the limit, and actually I did. Unfortunately, the limit for us didn't even meet the minimum recommendation

My guess as to why is because, in the US, all convertible seats are tested with the same 35lb dummy. it is then the manufacturer's decision what to give the seat as a limit.

But also because we know that babies under 1yr will break their necks almost all of the time, and so they probably figure that risking overrotation (which could be prevented by installing the seat less reclined) would be better than almost guaranteeing a broken neck.

ON THE OTHER HAND... there is the fact that in countries where babies routinely face front before 1yr old (like Australia and England), either an ff tether or something on the top of the seat that does the same thing as an ff tether is REQUIRED by law.

So I would say that if a parent in this situation feels better going by the limits, I would probably not worry as much if they were top tethering the seat (which in Canada is not a worry as it is law). In the US, tethering is not required by law, so you'll find us American geeks worrying that this would leave baby not only forward facing, but possibly untethered, depending on what car and the seating allowances for tethers.

Now, if I were you, I would have done the same thing simply because I would just not want to go against the seat recommendations. Now if it were a seat which has the higher limit on the other side of the board, I might consider it, but I really feel that there have to be reasons on why the company went with the limit they did.