Turning DD FF

[scuby20]

my veh is a 2005 dodge grand caravan. I MAY look into the NHTSA thing, but I know that can be a LONG process...my husband actually can't take the van in for me if I did get approved, he is deployed right now, and won't be back till we come back lol.

and I didn't know the airbags knew when a kid was in them? I know my passenger airbag isn't on if no one is in the seat, but as soon as enough weight is in the seat, then it turns on....so not sure how it would know if a child was in the seat.

I think I'm just going to get a mirror that will work for me and just be careful.....kind of like taking her off the monitor...I still have the monitor right now, but Ive been weening myself off of it, cause I know its time to get rid of it...at first it was SCARY, heck it took me so long to get used to it and to trust it, that now I don't want to give it up because I do trust it....but after this last week of being without it at night....I'm getting more rest and becoming more at ease. So I'll just get a mirror that I can see her clearly in.......though now she won't get to watch the dvd player lol...After seeing the crash videos, I really don't want her forward facing yet, till she hits the max weight on her boulevard for RF.

 

[MommyInMyHeart]

Oh my gosh that's perfect! If you have advanced airbags, then they WILL stay off with only the weight of a carseat and child in it! It takes the weight of a teenager or adult for the airbags to turn on. So you can put her RF in the front seat! Go ahead and install the seat there and put your dd in it, then turn the car on and see if the airbag says it's off. It definately should stay off!

ALLTHOUGH! She will be safer RF in the backseat, so if you are coming around to the idea of getting a big RF mirror and leaving her back there, then that's safer!

 

[TechnoGranola]

my veh is a 2005 dodge grand caravan. I MAY look into the NHTSA thing, but I know that can be a LONG process...my husband actually can't take the van in for me if I did get approved, he is deployed right now, and won't be back till we come back lol.

and I didn't know the airbags knew when a kid was in them? I know my passenger airbag isn't on if no one is in the seat, but as soon as enough weight is in the seat, then it turns on....so not sure how it would know if a child was in the seat.

I am so glad I asked you about which vehicle you had! This sounds like to me that you have the advanced air bags!! Basically, they take into account weight. Somewhere around 65ish pounds is when the air bag will turn on. It's not exact though as it has to do with the amount of force exerted on the sensors and different shaped people put different pressure on the sensors, even if they are the same weight. BUT, this system works great for lighter weight things.

Your vehicle should have a light that pops on to tell you if passenger air bag is off. It normally doesn't do this when there is nothing in the seat, only when there is an object detected that doesn't weight enough for the air bag to be ON. Test it out by putting a heavy box on the seat and see if you get a light.

But, PLEASE check your manual to verify if you have this feature (although from what I Googled, I am pretty sure you do). Assuming you do have this feature, make sure you move the passenger seat as far from the dash as possible when your daughter is riding in the front.

ETA: but don't use a RF seat in the front EVEN with advanced air bags!

 

[CDNTech]

A 2005 GC does have advanced airbags *BUT*, none of the techs here will recommend putting a rfing seat there. There is NO guarantee that the advanced air bag will not malfunction and go off anyway... it's just not a risk we are willing to tell parents to take.

I would either have the airbag *permanently* disabled or forward face her in the back.

 

[BookMama]

A 2005 GC does have advanced airbags *BUT*, none of the techs here will recommend putting a rfing seat there. There is NO guarantee that the advanced air bag will not malfunction and go off anyway... it's just not a risk we are willing to tell parents to take.

I would either have the airbag *permanently* disabled or forward face her in the back.

:yeahthat:

In fact, I just attended a tech seminar last week and one of the presenters was a safety restraints engineer from Takata Systems (he's also a CPS instructor). He stressed that even if you have "smart" airbags, children should always go in the back seat, and you should NEVER put a RF seat in the front seat with an airbag.

 

[snowbird25ca]

I haven't read this whole thread, so I'm not sure if it's been suggested already or not, but would having a friend or neighbor travel with you be an option? Or what about requesting a prescription for an O2 sat monitor from her dr. - that way you'd get an audible warning immediately if something happened causing her problems.

A 2005 GC does have advanced airbags *BUT*, none of the techs here will recommend putting a rfing seat there. There is NO guarantee that the advanced air bag will not malfunction and go off anyway... it's just not a risk we are willing to tell parents to take.

I would either have the airbag *permanently* disabled or forward face her in the back.

:yeahthat:

My dad's 2008 GMC truck manual goes so far as to tell parents who don't have an extended cab to consider transporting their child in another vehicle - even with a manual on/off switch they still consider it too big a risk and don't recommend it.

That, IMO, speaks volumes.

If I HAD to choose one or the other, I would rather see a child who meets the minimums ff'ing and top tethered than rf'ing in front of an airbag - even if the vehicle is indicating it's turned off. Of course, getting a mirror that would work or finding another solution is ultimately the best.

 

[TechnoGranola]

Has there been occurrences of the advanced air bags deploying with children in the seats?

In fact, I just attended a tech seminar last week and one of the presenters was a safety restraints engineer from Takata Systems (he's also a CPS instructor). He stressed that even if you have "smart" airbags, children should always go in the back seat, and you should NEVER put a RF seat in the front seat with an airbag.

I agree that children are always safer in the back, but isn't the exact purpose of the advanced air bag for when you have those emergency situations when you have to put a child in the front seat? For example, I had to take my 2 nieces with me in an emergency once, I already have 2 kids, someone had to sit in the front. I was thankful for having advanced air bags, else I am not sure what I would have done. Of course, I moved the passenger seat as far back as it would go.

If you can't use your front seat for unusual circumstances where you have to carry a child, then why bother installing advanced air bags into vehicles? There is no longer any purpose for them. Other than perhaps having them not deploy when there is no passenger and thus saving the cost of replacing an air bag (which would be negated by the extra cost of the advanced air bag system to start out with).

And BookMama, my questions aren't directed at you! I'd actually love to speak to the person in your seminar! I'm just thankful we bought a new vehicle with 3rd row seating for any emergencies with kids now. I am a little annoyed that we're paying money for air bag sensors that apparently aren't reliable. I am also annoyed that if airbags are deploying in accidents where they were supposed to be turned off, that I haven't heard about it.

 

[CDNTech]

The advanced air bags are for emergency situations for Forward Facing harnessed children... we *never* recommend putting a RFing seat in front of an airbag, period.

ETA: There are also some adults who do not qualify for the full force of an airbag. Advanced airbags deploy at different rates depending on the weight that is placed on the vehicle seat.

 

[BookMama]

Has there been occurrences of the advanced air bags deploying with children in the seats?



I agree that children are always safer in the back, but isn't the exact purpose of the advanced air bag for when you have those emergency situations when you have to put a child in the front seat? For example, I had to take my 2 nieces with me in an emergency once, I already have 2 kids, someone had to sit in the front. I was thankful for having advanced air bags, else I am not sure what I would have done. Of course, I moved the passenger seat as far back as it would go.

If you can't use your front seat for unusual circumstances where you have to carry a child, then why bother installing advanced air bags into vehicles? There is no longer any purpose for them. Other than perhaps having them not deploy when there is no passenger and thus saving the cost of replacing an air bag (which would be negated by the extra cost of the advanced air bag system to start out with).

And BookMama, my questions aren't directed at you! I'd actually love to speak to the person in your seminar!

The thing is, as techs, there is just so much that we aren't privy to in terms of testing, development, etc. I mean, it seems logical to think that "smart" airbags were developed for safety purposes - but what if they were developed to save the cost of replacing an airbag that deployed when there was no passenger? Airbags are expensive, and I could see that being the initial reason for smart airbags. I don't think we'll find anyone at the vehicle manufacturer or the car seat manufacturer willing to take on the liability of saying it's OK to put a RF seat in front of a smart airbag.

 

[snowbird25ca]

The advanced air bags are for emergency situations for Forward Facing harnessed children... we *never* recommend putting a RFing seat in front of an airbag, period.

ETA: There are also some adults who do not qualify for the full force of an airbag. Advanced airbags deploy at different rates depending on the weight that is placed on the vehicle seat.

I'm just going to :yeahthat: you again Jen.

I'm sure an advanced airbag deploying with an underweight passenger is a rare occurence, but the difference between a lightweight passenger and a rf'ing carseat is that the smaller child will definitely be worse the wear, but one in a rf'ing carseat would likely be dead or permanently disabled. Huge difference in risk assesment - and if there's any possibility whatsoever, it's just not a risk to be taken with a rf'ing child.

 

[TechnoGranola]

The advanced air bags are for emergency situations for Forward Facing harnessed children... we *never* recommend putting a RFing seat in front of an airbag, period.

In my situation, the kids were long outgrown harnessed seats.

ETA: There are also some adults who do not qualify for the full force of an airbag. Advanced airbags deploy at different rates depending on the weight that is placed on the vehicle seat.

My new vehicle does this but my old vehicle had advanced air bags and they did not deploy differently depending on weight or crash severity of the passenger; only whether or not a passenger was in the seat (single stage air bag). The driver's side did deploy differently depending on how close you were to the steering wheel (I think this one was dual stage/dual threshold).

 

[TechnoGranola]

I'm sure an advanced airbag deploying with an underweight passenger is a rare occurence, but the difference between a lightweight passenger and a rf'ing carseat is that the smaller child will definitely be worse the wear, but one in a rf'ing carseat would likely be dead or permanently disabled. Huge difference in risk assesment - and if there's any possibility whatsoever, it's just not a risk to be taken with a rf'ing child.

My comments were based on another comment that had stated that a non-RF child should never be in the front seat. Thus, I wasn't disagreeing with the RF child in the front seat, but rather with the non-RF child in the front seat in an emergency situation.

I agree with not having a RF child in the front seat. After being reminded here, I remembered that my vehicle owner's manual said this as well.

 

[CDNTech]

In my situation, the kids were long outgrown harnessed seats.

Sorry, should have clarified better... the front seat should only be used for children under 12 who are Forward Facing (harnessed/boostered/seatbelted) in emergency situations *only*.

My comments were based on another comment that had stated that a non-RF child should never be in the front seat.

I think I missed this comment... I skimmed the thread again, but I didn't see it jump out at me.

 

[TechnoGranola]

Sorry, should have clarified better... the front seat should only be used for children under 12 who are Forward Facing (harnessed/boostered/seatbelted) in emergency situations *only*.

Okay, I qualified in my situation then, whew! Have only had to do it the once though.

I think I missed this comment... I skimmed the thread again, but I didn't see it jump out at me.

Post #45 where a safety restraint engineer had said that even with advanced air bags, kids should never ride in the front. That just made me think there was no reason at all for these air bags then if they can't be relied upon to turn off the air bag when a child has to be in the front in an emergency.

 

[CDNTech]

Post #45

He's right, they never should... but there are always exceptions. Never say never and all that.

The post actually said children *should* go in the back and that *RFing* seats should *never* go in the front.

 

[TechnoGranola]

The post actually said children *should* go in the back and that *RFing* seats should *never* go in the front.

Actually, it said "should ALWAYS go in the back seat". Which I took to mean that there were no exceptions. Perhaps I took it too literally, but if there are exceptions I would have liked to not see the word "always" in there. I work in a very literal field, so apparently it's carrying over to my personal life.

 

[CDNTech]

Actually, it said "should ALWAYS go in the back seat". Which I took to mean that there were no exceptions. Perhaps I took it too literally, but if there are exceptions I would have liked to not see the word "always" in there. I work in a very literal field, so apparently it's carrying over to my personal life.

totally not wanting to be argumentative... but if you work in a literal field, then you know that the word *should* does not mean you *must* do this.

 

[BookMama]

totally not wanting to be argumentative... but if you work in a literal field, then you know that the word *should* does not mean you *must* do this.

I work in a very word-related field (I'm a writer/editor) and often have discussions with co-workers about exactly which word to use in a particular situation, which is why I was conscious of not saying "never" in the first place.

 

[TechnoGranola]

totally not wanting to be argumentative... but if you work in a literal field, then you know that the word *should* does not mean you *must* do this.

Heh-heh, well it would have been best for that safety engineer to not combine it with "always" then. And there really isn't a concept of "should" in my work, something is either done always, in a specific case or never.

 

[emnandosiesmom]

My husband and I own a body shop and I would just like to stress the importance of making sure you have a QUALIFIED technician at the dealership turn off your passenger side air bag if that is the choice you decide to make. Do not hesite to ask if the person working on your airbags has the necessaary training and you can even ask to see the certificates of ICAR completion relating to airbag instillation and safety. Unfortunately in our industry there is a lot of technician turn over. I highly recommend being EXTREMELY proactive when it comes to airbags. Not to freak anyone out but is not too uncommon to see airbags installed wrong when the vehicle has been in an accident. It is not so much the airbag part that you see as you sit in your vehicle, but the connections and module that are essential to your supplemetal restraint system working properly. I would be very hesitant to put either of my DD's in the front seat for any reason at all. In emergency grab a neighbor to drive and sit in the back with your child. Don't make an emergency a tragedy.