Non techs helping with installs

[morninglori]

Out of curiousity...Where was the discharge nurse that rolls the mom and baby out to the car in a wheelchair?

For both of my LOs, at discharge, I was wheeled downstairs to my waiting vehicle - even though I was able to walk. The nurse checked the fit of the baby in the infant seat upstairs, and once we got down to the car, she checked the base in the car and the angle indicator when DH put the baby in the car. Then they let us go. I thought that was standard at all hospitals?

 

[bree]

Out of curiousity...Where was the discharge nurse that rolls the mom and baby out to the car in a wheelchair?

For both of my LOs, at discharge, I was wheeled downstairs to my waiting vehicle - even though I was able to walk. The nurse checked the fit of the baby in the infant seat upstairs, and once we got down to the car, she checked the base in the car and the angle indicator when DH put the baby in the car. Then they let us go. I thought that was standard at all hospitals?

Nope, it isn't standard with all hospitals. I wasn't discharged in a wheelchair with either of my kids, and I wasn't accompanied downstairs by a nurse with my son. A nurse looked over my daughter in her infant seat upstairs before discharge, but no one did that with my son, and no one looked at the install in the car for either of my kids. I don't know about the OP's situation, in particular, but from what I understand, it isn't really standard for there to be a seat check, even an informal one, before a baby and mom leave the hospital.

 

[mish]

So, everyone flame me if you want, but really? A guy just walked up to you and asked for help? I know it could happen, but I think this thread was created to start drama.

 

[jeminijad]

Out of curiousity...Where was the discharge nurse that rolls the mom and baby out to the car in a wheelchair?

For both of my LOs, at discharge, I was wheeled downstairs to my waiting vehicle - even though I was able to walk. The nurse checked the fit of the baby in the infant seat upstairs, and once we got down to the car, she checked the base in the car and the angle indicator when DH put the baby in the car. Then they let us go. I thought that was standard at all hospitals?

Not everywhere. Didn't happen w/us. An orderly wheeled me to the lobby, where I got up and walked through the lobby area, out to the parking lot etc. No one checked seats.

 

[KaysKidz]

A lot of hospitals won't touch your seat w/a 10' pole due to liability issues (they are easy to find and have very deep pockets). They just ask (not always) if you have one. They don't care if you use it right. That's your job. Not theirs.

 

[NatesMamma]

Out of curiousity...Where was the discharge nurse that rolls the mom and baby out to the car in a wheelchair?

For both of my LOs, at discharge, I was wheeled downstairs to my waiting vehicle - even though I was able to walk. The nurse checked the fit of the baby in the infant seat upstairs, and once we got down to the car, she checked the base in the car and the angle indicator when DH put the baby in the car. Then they let us go. I thought that was standard at all hospitals?

I delivered DS at this same hospital, so I know for a fact that a) they don't wheel you out to your car and b) they don't check your CR install. It's their policy that they won't discharge your baby if you don't have a CR for the baby. So prior to discharge, you have to bring your CR into your hospital room as proof that you own one. They also had us buckle DS into his SS1 in our room, but that was it. IIRC the very young nurse who took a look at our carseat mentioned something about checking DS for positional asphyxia, but I don't see how that was worthwhile considering he was lying at a different angle on the hospital floor than when the SS1 was popped onto the base in the car.

I believe their policy is to wheel the mom out of the L&D department. The nurse may have accompanied me down to the ground floor, but I honestly don't remember. However far she tagged along, I very distinctly remember that we were on our own at least from the elevator door, down the hall to the lobby, and out to the car. I remember getting lots of warm wishes from folks as DS and I sat in the lobby alone, surrounded by our flowers and balloons, waiting for DH to return from the parking lot with the car.

So, everyone flame me if you want, but really? A guy just walked up to you and asked for help? I know it could happen, but I think this thread was created to start drama.

:ROTFLMAO:
I don't know why, but I find it hilarious that you think my post was MUD!

::shrugs:: It did happen. Keep in mind that this gentleman was probably in a bit of a panic. First because he's a brand new dad. Second because he just realized in the parking lot of the hospital, with his new family looking on that he has no idea how on earth to transport this teeny little baby home safely. Honestly, given the circumstances and the fact that your average Joe can't really be bothered with ensuring his kids are riding safely in the car, I wasn't all that surprised that it happened. He was lost. He saw some of us are moms. He thought, "Ah! They'll know what to do!" And he asked.

And because I can see the next question being why a group of friends and I were hanging outside a hospital entrance on a weekday evening: We're from one of the spouse's groups on base and had just finished up a service project inside the hospital. We stepped outside and were chatting while one of the other girls and I waited for rides home.

Sorry if that's too dramatic for you.

 

[Ducky5306]

So, everyone flame me if you want, but really? A guy just walked up to you and asked for help? I know it could happen, but I think this thread was created to start drama.

People see people with small children (or just mom looking people) and ask for all kinds of weird things! I had two small children with me so a lady asked me to help her pick out the right size onesie for her dog! (She said she knew i'd know since I had kids with me )I've had people ask me how to buckle kids into shopping carts and i could totally see someone asking how to install a carseat.. People think once you have kids nothing is off limits (Don't get me started when about strangers asking way too personal questions!)

 

[Connor's Mom]

OK if what everyone is saying is correct, that it is OK for just anyone to install complete strangers car seats, then why should anyone even bother with spending the time and money to get Certified? I will use an analogy I have used before - Do you want a REAL doctor diagnosing your illnesses or is it OK for someone that just spends alot of time on Web MD to fix you up? Same difference right? Do you want a real CPST helping you learn to install your car seat or do you want it installed by some random stranger that hangs out on a car seat board for a couple of months. :twocents:

 

[christineka]

OK if what everyone is saying is correct, that it is OK for just anyone to install complete strangers car seats, then why should anyone even bother with spending the time and money to get Certified? I will use an analogy I have used before - Do you want a REAL doctor diagnosing your illnesses or is it OK for someone that just spends alot of time on Web MD to fix you up? Same difference right? Do you want a real CPST helping you learn to install your car seat or do you want it installed by some random stranger that hangs out on a car seat board for a couple of months. :twocents:

The thing is, that random people who are good with car seats, but not techs are out in the real world, faced with people who need their car seats installed right then, and not usually during a cpst's business hours. Besides, they'd have to drive their kid to the health department (or wherever) restrained improperly to get to the cpst. I don't think that many of us non-cpsts on this board are the average joe shmoe in the 80 percent using our car seats incorrectly anyway.

On this board people have medical issues and ask. Go check out the "medical issues and tmi" section. I don't take the advice like I would a doctor's usually, but it's good to be able to ask when it's not my doctor's office hours.

 

[BananaBoat]

Out of curiousity...Where was the discharge nurse that rolls the mom and baby out to the car in a wheelchair?

For both of my LOs, at discharge, I was wheeled downstairs to my waiting vehicle - even though I was able to walk. The nurse checked the fit of the baby in the infant seat upstairs, and once we got down to the car, she checked the base in the car and the angle indicator when DH put the baby in the car. Then they let us go. I thought that was standard at all hospitals?

While the hospital that I was discharged from had a "car seat" policy, it consisted of the valet guy looking through the window of our car to see if we put DD in a car seat. And since it's a city hospital, if you take a cab home, you don't *need* a seat

OK if what everyone is saying is correct, that it is OK for just anyone to install complete strangers car seats, then why should anyone even bother with spending the time and money to get Certified? I will use an analogy I have used before - Do you want a REAL doctor diagnosing your illnesses or is it OK for someone that just spends alot of time on Web MD to fix you up? Same difference right? Do you want a real CPST helping you learn to install your car seat or do you want it installed by some random stranger that hangs out on a car seat board for a couple of months. :twocents:

I think you're going to be hard-pressed to find many parents off this board who think that car seats are ANYthing like medical devices. To most, it's a fun piece of gear to color-coordinate until it becomes annoying enough to be complacent about. Eventually, said parent looks forward to the day that the "legal" minimums are reached so there are less things to wash/buckle/clean/fight with offspring over etc.

It's unfortunate, but pretty realistic. While I'd for every new parent to be required by law to have their seat checked, I'm ok with someone who at least has some significant knowledge to help. OP did the best she thought of. Next time she'll teach instead of do. Maybe one day CPSTs will rule the world...we can only dream, right? :evil grin:

 

[Connor's Mom]

The thing is, that random people who are good with car seats, but not techs are out in the real world, faced with people who need their car seats installed right then, and not usually during a cpst's business hours. Besides, they'd have to drive their kid to the health department (or wherever) restrained improperly to get to the cpst. I don't think that many of us non-cpsts on this board are the average joe shmoe in the 80 percent using our car seats incorrectly anyway.

I don't think that the average CPST has "buiness hours" and the vast majority do not work at the health department or any other orginization like that. If you read here on this board you will see that the majority of CPSTs are just plain old Mommies (and Daddies) that are interested in child passenger safety and are employed in positions not even related to being a tech. Alot of them will come to your house if asked. But, it is like I said, why should someone even bother to take the time and $$$ to become a CPST if just any old "joe schmoe" could do a seat check? There IS a difference in a CPST and a "joe schmoe".

On this board people have medical issues and ask. Go check out the "medical issues and tmi" section. I don't take the advice like I would a doctor's usually, but it's good to be able to ask when it's not my doctor's office hours.

Yah, I think that is a bad idea too. :twocents:
Why the F would you ask for medical advice on a car seat board. And being a Critical Care Registered Nurse, I have seen some piss poor medical advice offered up on this board. But hey, if you are satisfied with a total random stranger installing your car seats and a CPST diagnosing your medical problems who am I to say anything, lol.

 

[ketchupqueen]

I don't think that the average CPST has "buiness hours" and the vast majority do not work at the health department or any other orginization like that. If you read here on this board you will see that the majority of CPSTs are just plain old Mommies (and Daddies) that are interested in child passenger safety and are employed in positions not even related to being a tech. Alot of them will come to your house if asked. But, it is like I said, why should someone even bother to take the time and $$$ to become a CPST if just any old "joe schmoe" could do a seat check? There IS a difference in a CPST and a "joe schmoe".

While I agree that it is always a good idea to go to a real tech-- I disagree that the majority of CPSTs are employed in positions unrelated to being a tech. As far as I know the majority of CPSTs are still put through by their work (many of them "voluntordered" to the class, as my Instructor put it) and many, many DO have business hours. Around here almost no techs do private checks, most are with agencies (mainly the CHP but a few others.) And it can often be a long wait to get an appointment with them, if they're even taking appointments for people not clients of their agency (which is why I do free private checks, and make sure to see parents ASAP when I get a call.) The numbers show that only a little more than half of all techs recertify. Many techs do it when they're told to and as soon as their time is up, they're out, and do not go the extra mile to stay late or make it convenient for someone to come to them.

 

[Connor's Mom]

Gotcha. But, I do think that might be a regional thing as well as that is not the case in my area.
But even with all that said - would you advocate that just any "joe schmoe" from a car seat board should be installing seats for random strangers in parking lots because it may be hard to get an appointment with a CPST?

I wanna edit this to say that I am not comparing a person with above average knowledge of car seat instillation helping their best friend, sister, cousin, etc install their car seat. I have been known to help my best friends with their seats. I won't install them but I am more than willing to offer some pointers if asked. I just don't think that a person such as myself should offer my services and install seats for random strangers in parking lots. :twocents:

 

[TXAggieTech]

My point is there are sue-happy people everywhere.. I am not a EMT, Car seat tech, personal shopper, letter carrier, etc but if i am asked for help I will help to the best of my ability..

For the most part we are a society that helps others. Heck, insurance companies even use this in ad campaigns!

I'd rather assume some legal liability than later hear about how the kid was in a wreck on the way to the tech and was killed when he was ejected from his CR because of gross misuse. KWIM?

This. Now, I feel you should do everything to limit that liability. Like pointed out, be VERY clear that you are not a tech, that there is no implication of higher than average knowledge. Have the parents touch the seat last if possible. Have them verbalize that they understand you are not trained and that they need to get to a tech asap. Make sure they understand that you may be installing the seat incorrectly.

But I am not going to put myself out there as a car seat expert. I am not going to volunteer in the BRU parking lot, and I am going to refer people to techs in both pressing and nonpressing situations... it is just that there are a few circumstances in which the safety of a child trumps my need to cover my butt :twocents:

:thumbsup:

OK if what everyone is saying is correct, that it is OK for just anyone to install complete strangers car seats, then why should anyone even bother with spending the time and money to get Certified? I will use an analogy I have used before - Do you want a REAL doctor diagnosing your illnesses or is it OK for someone that just spends alot of time on Web MD to fix you up? Same difference right? Do you want a real CPST helping you learn to install your car seat or do you want it installed by some random stranger that hangs out on a car seat board for a couple of months. :twocents:

Normally I would agree. Pregnant mom- send her to a tech. Seat that child is going to ride away in the very next minute either way- different story. Same as with your doctor analogy, odd lump in the side of your neck- go see a doc. Child choking on the playground- nearest warm body gets a shot whether they have medical training or just read a poster on the Heimlich while standing in line a the deli.

As far as legal, it would vary from state to state. There a couple of things that may apply, it would be stretching to call it an emergency though. Good Samaritan Laws would not apply since it is NOT an emergency. However, some states (like Texas) have Charitable Immunity Laws which do cover non-emergency situations. Some are very narrow and only cover official trained volunteers, others are broad. Some states don't even have them any more. Assistance in good faith that results in harm is typically protected, this is usually for emergency situations. To use it would be a bit of legal fiction, which does happen.

No matter what, you can be sued as long as they can pay the filing fee. They could sue you for helping, they could sue you for refusing to help. Winning is another matter entirely!

 

[littleangelfire]

I have had Drs that I've loved and knew their stuff. However, I will say that the best things to happen to my own health have happened from advice from friends, books, and internet, NOT any healthcare professional. In fact, I have had to fight many a Dr to do what I know is right for my own body, even with medical journal proof to back me up. I just plain do not consider someone an expert *just because* they have a degree/certification in the field. And its not different with a CPST. I mingled with a few at 3-4 different summer events last year (city carnivals, fairs, farmer's market events) and not a one had a clue. Seriously. I know there's some in our larger metro area that do, b/c both Strollerfreak and Lovinwaves live about 40 mins from me or so, and there's at least 2 awesome techs at the children's hospital b/c I spoke with them both and one of them gifted my son with a MA when he no longer fit into anything I could afford at 2 years old. But within my own city? I haven't met him/her yet. Their 'model' seat they had at one booth, meant to show proper use for 1 and 20? An expired Cosco job (what was it, ventura, adventurer? something like that). All their brochures were old with old info, and every one of them, at least from an outsider's point of view, appeared to have become a tech only b/c their job required it. They were all police officers. Not that a PO can't be a good tech - just that many do it only b/c its demanded of them.

So yeah, I do ask medical advice/experience from lots of other people besides Drs. Particularly b/c I value natural, homeopathic remedies when they are effective and the medical community at large has little use for that, IME. Like some other professions I can think of, it almost seems as though all medical students are bluntly told "if the patient thinks of it, fight it. It won't work." lol or something along the lines of "we're the boss, we know what we're doing. demand compliance, make the patient feel stupid and inept." I've had many a physician, who even while being kind with great bedside manner, made me feel like an ignorant idiot who needed to submit to her all-knowing doctor. As many have posted here - one of the most common places that happens is the delivery room. Women are bullied into procedures they don't want b/c 'dr knows best'. But that's enough on that wholly different subject. Just put here to show why I respectfully disagree with you. I do and will continue to ask medical advice from lots of different sources and that includes friends/acquaintances online. And, having seen ???s asked before about problems I've experience, I think I've given some pretty darn good advice, too! I have PCOS - many docs, even in this day and age still will just send you away with birth control and tell you to deal with it. I share all I've learned about it , and what treatments to push for that can have a big impact.

 

[kidnurse]

I am no lawyer, but I highly doubt that there is any risk in what the OP did from a legal standpoint. The father solicited her help, He then chose to trust the OP, who made it clear she was not a tech, and He chose to put his child in the seat and trust that the OP knew better than he did how to install the seat. That being said, I'm sure we all agree that having a tech teach dad how to install his baby's carseat would be the most ideal situation, but in the given circumstances, this was not a realistic option at that moment in time. I think, if truth be told, many of us would have helped this dad had he approached us. I can't see anyone here walking away from a dad struggling to figure out his car seat while baby and mom are waiting nearby to go home from the hospital. Now some of us may have had the forsight to stay hands off and walk dad through the install, but I guess maybe this is a good lesson for those of us who would not have that foresight - myself included. I would not have thought ahead far enough to figure it would be best to have dad do the physical install himself.

It is sad that hospitals are not as on top of car seat safety as they used to be. I have never worked anywhere that let's a new baby go home without at least seeing the baby in the car seat before discharge. At a lot of places I have also walked patients out and then had to make a note in the chart if they drive off without baby in the car seat. However, at the hospital where I had my son, I had a friend haul our SS1 upstairs only to find out, they really didn't care if he left in a car seat or not. I did however have to sign a paper that said I watched the car seat video on their educational channel, but obviously that was on the honor system.

 

[Shanora]

Even as a tech now, my hands stay off unless the parent needs an extra hand to hold something. I walk parents through an install and they do it themselves.

I'm a visual learner, I need to SEE it done in order to get it done properly.... so I assume many people are like me. So what *I* do is, get the manual, read the manual, read the vehicle manual, and then show the parent HOW to install the seat, by physically installing the seat in their vehicle. Then I unbuckle the seat, and have them try, so that if they get stuck, I can show them the next step....

I agree with this. I check out the install and maybe point out a few tips, but I let the parent install it physically. You could even just do a quick install to see how it works, then have the parent install it.

:yeahthat:

Actually, per many parents who come here and say so, lots of techs DO just install the seat for the parents. Not that that is what they're supposed to do, but it happens. A lot. Many parents never do learn how to get the darn things in right b/c at those long lined checks in the grocery store parking lot the techs are installing the seats for them.

<.....>

It was brought up at one point during one of the past coverings of this topic, too, that frankly, there's some people 'hanging out' here who already know more than some of the general pool of techs. Not the techs here, b/c they're passionate about keeping kids safe and stay up on their stuff. But the average police officer who only took the course b/c he was required to, and got an old school instructor who still quotes forward at 1 and 20? Yeah, I'm pretty confident I'd do a better job than him. Like almost anything else in life, certification, degree doesn't mean mastery and likewise, not having that certification/degree doesn't mean ignorance.

I have no degree in music education, or music, or composition or anything even remotely music related. But I'm a piano teacher. Have been for 15 years. I'm pretty confident I know what I'm doing despite not being a member of any music teacher association or holding a degree in the field.

How many Dr.s claim to know what best for children in Car seats, and give false info. Also what about the Certified Techs who CAN'T install seats properly...and just make shit up?

I wonder if the 'good samaritan' laws would apply in this type of situation, from a legal stand point.

This was brought up in my tech course, and I believe it was stated that when certified as a Tech you were covered.

Out of curiousity...Where was the discharge nurse that rolls the mom and baby out to the car in a wheelchair?

For both of my LOs, at discharge, I was wheeled downstairs to my waiting vehicle - even though I was able to walk. The nurse checked the fit of the baby in the infant seat upstairs, and once we got down to the car, she checked the base in the car and the angle indicator when DH put the baby in the car. Then they let us go. I thought that was standard at all hospitals?

Nope, not for any of my kids. I always just walked out. I don't remember if they checked my seat at all for DS#1 10.5 years ago. But they checked for DD, and I believe for DS#2


Honestly, I think that if you are helping the child leave in a better install than when they arrived, then you totally should. Something is better than nothing. I used to do it ALL the time before I was licensed. The only reason I got my license was so that I could get join to do checks!!

 

[NatesMamma]

I will use an analogy I have used before - Do you want a REAL doctor diagnosing your illnesses or is it OK for someone that just spends alot of time on Web MD to fix you up? Same difference right? Do you want a real CPST helping you learn to install your car seat or do you want it installed by some random stranger that hangs out on a car seat board for a couple of months. :twocents:

Um, no. Not the same difference. At all.

4 days of tech training versus 4 years of college + 4 years of med school + 3-6 years of residency + (maybe) years of fellowship training

You really want to put a CPST certification on the same planet occupied by a fully trained physician? My God. Please tell me you're kidding.

Care for some more differences? A doc is licensed. A person cannot legally practice medicine without a valid medical license, which as I pointed out requires a hell of a lot more work than--and is way different from--a tech certification. You might not agree with it, but it's not illegal for us non-certified folk to install a carseat. Wikipedia put it more eloquently than I would've:

Certification does not refer to the state of legally being able to practice or work in a profession. That is licensure. Usually, licensure is administered by a governmental entity for public protection purposes and certification by a professional association.

And CR are designed to be installed by John Q Public going off the handy dandy included manual. You are not supposed to need any formal training to install a carseat. Now, please tell me where I can buy an easy to read 30 page manual that will teach me how to diagnose the pain I've been feeling in my left knee. No, really! Is it available as an internet download?

 

[Stacy]

And CR are designed to be installed by John Q Public going off the handy dandy included manual. You are not supposed to need any formal training to install a carseat

Righto

 

[Connor's Mom]

Um, no. Not the same difference. At all.

4 days of tech training versus 4 years of college + 4 years of med school + 3-6 years of residency + (maybe) years of fellowship training

You really want to put a CPST certification on the same planet occupied by a fully trained physician? My God. Please tell me you're kidding.

Care for some more differences? A doc is licensed. A person cannot legally practice medicine without a valid medical license, which as I pointed out requires a hell of a lot more work than--and is way different from--a tech certification. You might not agree with it, but it's not illegal for us non-certified folk to install a carseat. Wikipedia put it more eloquently than I would've:

Certification does not refer to the state of legally being able to practice or work in a profession. That is licensure. Usually, licensure is administered by a governmental entity for public protection purposes and certification by a professional association.

And CR are designed to be installed by John Q Public going off the handy dandy included manual. You are not supposed to need any formal training to install a carseat. Now, please tell me where I can buy an easy to read 30 page manual that will teach me how to diagnose the pain I've been feeling in my left knee. No, really! Is it available as an internet download?

Good grief! I think that you are reading a little too much in to my analogy. I am done.