booster seat in VW camper van (BC)

[Unregistered]

Hi there. I got some great advice from you guys a few weeks ago on my Radian so I thought you might be able to help me with something else. I have a 1983 VW Westfalia camper van. The back seat is a bench with lap belts. I have an 8 year old guest staying with me for 2 weeks. I asked the BC car seat helpline what to do re a booster seat and they said that no booster will work and I need to just use the lap belt on him low and tight. Can anyone confirm that this is correct? Also, there is no airbag so should I put him in the front seat in a booster instead? Thanks in advance.

 

[QuassEE]

I'm surprised they would recommend use of the lapbelt over the 3-point belt in the front passenger seat..? I would recommend using that front passenger seat, with a booster. If you have another adult in the vehicle you'll have to choose who goes into the lapbelt, but so long as you have that lap/shoulder belt and just two occupants, those seating positions should be used.

-N.

 

[April]

We just went over this last week for a friend of mine. I agree with Nicole (but I'm NOT a tech). (And as long as there's no airbag, which I highly doubt there would be) I don't know if they would give you a ticket if you got pulled over or not, but I would thing aside from the obvious importance of what's safest, I'd think they'd prefer to see an 8 year old in a booster than in no booster, especially since they just put the new law into effect. Oh and they are doing road side checks!

 

[Unregistered]

Thanks - I will have at least one other adult in the car (his mother). I will talk to her when they arrive and see what she is most comfortable with.

 

[scatterbunny]

Will your child (who uses the Radian) be on the trip, as well? If not, I'd check how the 8yo boy fits the Radian; if he fits, I'd use that for him in the back, so his mom can have the front shoulderbelt.

 

[QuassEE]

It's the one place that our tether law fails us. You can only legally use a harnessed seat if it's tethered.. By law, the child may even need to be in a booster at a minimum (height?), so this doesn't leave too many options.

IMO--I'd rather see a child in an untethered harnessed seat versus a lapbelt, but this isn't something that we can officially recommend.

-Nicole.

 

[scatterbunny]

It's the one place that our tether law fails us. You can only legally use a harnessed seat if it's tethered.. By law, the child may even need to be in a booster at a minimum (height?), so this doesn't leave too many options.

IMO--I'd rather see a child in an untethered harnessed seat versus a lapbelt, but this isn't something that we can officially recommend.

-Nicole.

That's why I said it. I totally understand the law in CA requiring top tethering, and I think it's a fabulous thing. However, this is one of those times where I would break the law. Reason being, the law should never require a parent to put a child in a less safe position. When the choices are either putting the child in just a lapbelt (so the adult has the front shoulderbelt), putting the child in a booster in the front so there is a shoulderbelt available (thus putting the adult in the dangerous lapbelt-only spot), or putting the child in an untethered Radian in the lapbelt-only spot so the adult can have the front shoulderbelt, it's a no-brainer to me. The only option where everyone is truly safe is the last option. I am a law-abiding citizen in almost all instances, but I would not follow the law to tether in this case, when it means making both passengers less safe by doing so.

JMO, of course.

 

[Unregistered]

I will have my baby with me so the Radian won't be an option. I don't understand what you are all saying about tethering though. When I eventually turn my Radian to ff I have to have it tethered by law? It's OK because there is a place where I can tether it. I just didn't know it was law.

 

[QuassEE]

Absolutely, it's law in Canada. I was under the impression that the older camper vans didn't have the tether bar, though? Do you have a big metal tube of a bar that's an approved tethering location?

-Nicole.

 

[Unregistered]

I'll have to check it again but there's a metal hoop that's bolted onto the metal floor behind the back bench. It looks like it was added later. How do I know if it is 'approved'? What should I do once DS is ready to ff? ARGHH! Just when I think I'm getting a handle on this car seat thing.

Sorry to hijack my own thread!

 

[QuassEE]

Volkswagen can tell you if it's an approved location..

-N.

 

[Unregistered]

I also own a 1983 Westfalia camper with a bench seat and lap belts. Our kids are 8 and 10 years old, and we have decided to no longer use our booster seats, for the most part. However, I can offer at least my experience with the tether points.

I had little to no assistance offered when calling various safety people, VW dealers, etc. I installed two top tether points with big washers to the top luggage compartment and found it was good with the lap belts snugged down to the type of booster that has its own harness. THe only drawback is getting the seats in and out when camping.

Officials are so worried about litigation that will not offer any advice for older vehicles. You just have to get off-the-record advice or make your own decisions based on others' experiences.

We are now looking for the shoulder belt conversion kit for the back seat, and may also consider making some sort of neck restraint.

But I was pleased with the solid feel of the car seats with the top tether strap attached to the wooden luggage rack. The safety person I consulted indicated that this point would be very unlikely to fail as long as the lapbelts are snugged down tight to hold the car seat solid.

Brian

 

[SafeDad]

I also own a 1983 Westfalia camper with a bench seat and lap belts. Our kids are 8 and 10 years old, and we have decided to no longer use our booster seats, for the most part. However, I can offer at least my experience with the tether points.

I had little to no assistance offered when calling various safety people, VW dealers, etc. I installed two top tether points with big washers to the top luggage compartment and found it was good with the lap belts snugged down to the type of booster that has its own harness. THe only drawback is getting the seats in and out when camping.

Officials are so worried about litigation that will not offer any advice for older vehicles. You just have to get off-the-record advice or make your own decisions based on others' experiences

Unfortunately, other people's experiences border from safe advice to potential Darwin award candidates. The LATCH manual has a section on installing custom top tether anchors when no factory OEM kit is available.

http://www.saferidenews.com/SRNDNN/Products/LATCHManual/tabid/56/Default.aspx

E-Z-ON sells heavy duty top tether kits. Basic instructions can be found here. Some mechanics may install these for you:

http://www.ezonpro.com/instructions/EZONinstructions_mounts_100tc.pdf

We are now looking for the shoulder belt conversion kit for the back seat, and may also consider making some sort of neck restraint.

Making a neck restraint sounds potentially very dangerous. There are shoulder belt and HANS head restraint systems sold for the race car industry. Wesco Performance and Simpson Racing come to mind offhand. Perhaps some of these commercially available kits would be suitable for personal use, but you should discuss this with the manufacturer directly. VW offered a shoulder belt retrofit for the Vanagon:

http://www.carseat.org/Technical/640_RetroSB.pdf

But I was pleased with the solid feel of the car seats with the top tether strap attached to the wooden luggage rack. The safety person I consulted indicated that this point would be very unlikely to fail as long as the lapbelts are snugged down tight to hold the car seat solid.

Brian

I hope the wood is very strong, as the forces in a severe frontal crash can be quite large and easily crack or pull a bolt through materials like wood.

 

[snowbird25ca]

I hope the wood is very strong, as the forces in a severe frontal crash can be quite large and easily crack or pull a bolt through materials like wood.

I also have to imagine that having all that force on it could cause the wood to splinter and then there'd be potential for projectile from the wood pieces as well... or if the wood actually held, what if the whole luggage rack itself ripped out of the roof? That wouldn't be a good thing to have flying towards the back of the head...

 

[mommycat]

Making a neck restraint sounds potentially very dangerous. There are shoulder belt and HANS head restraint systems sold for the race car industry. Wesco Performance and Simpson Racing come to mind offhand. Perhaps some of these commercially available kits would be suitable for personal use, but you should discuss this with the manufacturer directly.

I thought that they were probably referring to a head rest of some sort, and not a head/neck restraint like the HANS device (which I thought of at first but then realized it was just the wording, probably?)

Not that making up your own retrofit is ever ideal. I would worry that adding forces on the seatback would cause it to fail because it was not designed with those loads in mind.

And I also would feel rather uncomfortable tethering to a wooden luggage rack. I would much rather see a tether point added in the floor in a position determined to be sufficient to hold a load. I would follow the E-Z-ON and saferidenews instructions to help determine a location.

 

[Unregistered]

Westy owners can get rear shoulder seatbelt conversion kits from Gowesty.com. There are approved bolt holes already drilled (because the frame is the same as that for the passenger vans). good luck