Tether Anchor Placement: Distance from Seat?

[AustinMusic]

Hi Everyone,

(First time poster here so forgive me if I’m asking something basic or obvious!)

Having ordered the heavy duty tether anchors from E-Z-On and looked at the instructions, I am having some trouble figuring out where to put them in the car.

I think I understand that they can’t be placed anywhere which will cause the tether straps to be at more than 45 degrees from the shoulders. This means that they will have to go at the back of the boot however this seems to me quite a long distance – is there any limit as to how far you can put the tether anchors away from the back of the seat?

I don’t want to place them too far away if I shouldn’t, but I don’t really want to mount them halfway up the boot floor because it is harder to get underneath in that area when putting the nut on the bolt.

I hope this makes sense, and if pictures would help I can certainly take some.

Thank you very much to anyone who can help, it is really appreciated.

 

[mommycat]

I am not 100% sure as to the answer but I think it should be fine as long as it is an appropriate location wrt the plating etc as described in the E-Z-On instructions. Some hatchbacks/vans/SUVs do have tether locations on the roof or floor near the rear hatch opening so it seems like a potential location. The North American 2005 Ford Focus HBs/wagon have tether anchors on the back of the rear seat according to the LATCH manual, so that is not much help (unless they happened to use the same seats and your car has the anchors avalailable and just not listed in the manual).

Hopefully someone with more experience with the heavy-duty anchors will answer. IIRC, I think Defrost may have some experience?

 

[AustinMusic]

Hi Mommycat,

Thanks for your reply.

unless they happened to use the same seats and your car has the anchors avalailable and just not listed in the manual

Actually it is the opposite! The manual says they are located on the boot floor close the back of the rear seats however I've checked twice and they are certainly not there. I looked at britax.co.uk and apparently tether anchors were only required in the UK from February 2006 and our car is a 2005 model.

As you mentioned, I'll wait to see if Defrost has any further advice and thank you very much for your help,

 

[mommycat]

I would contact Ford and see if there is a possibility that predrilled locations exist in the floor panels, maybe under carpeting or something? Good luck.

 

[Pixels]

As long as the tether strap from the vest reaches, there is no such thing as too far, only too close.

 

[Defrost]

As long as the tether strap from the vest reaches, there is no such thing as too far, only too close.

Okay, I'm getting confused by the "more than" and "less than" degrees, because the language is the opposite of "closer to" and "farther than," and "more than 45 degrees" is actually a lower number...

Here's the instructions so everyone can see what we're talking about.. It specifically states in bold wording "The anchor should not be installed more than 45 degrees..."

When I spoke with a rep about this issue, she said that 45 degrees is the ideal and we should get as close to that as possible, but she also acknowledged that it's not always possible and that closer is better than farther. My concern was specifically that putting an anchor at a 45-degree angle from the shoulders would put the anchor outside my car, because there's just not enough car behind the seat in question.

The custom 86Y that they made for me uses the lower seatbelt anchors, which is definitely much closer than a 45-degree angle. Also, many of their other products designed for use on buses are specifically made to anchor to the seat.

OP - I'd recommend contacting the company for confirmation, as you're basically relying on my memory here. My understanding has always been to get a 45-degree angle whenever possible, and to adjust the anchor close to the seat rather than farther if 45-degrees isn't possible.

 

[Pixels]

Debbie, I think we're miscommunicating some. You are talking about angles, I'm talking about distance.

If the tether straps reach, the anchor point is close enough distance-wise. If the anchor point is too close, there won't be enough room to tighten the tether, because adjusted all the way small it will still be too long. (Actually, technically it must be within 2,000 mm. But what matters is that the straps reach.)

As for angle, straight back is okay, straight up or straight down is not. Does that help explain which direction they are meaning when they say "not more than 45 degrees?" There are diagrams from the federal (US) standard on tether anchor location on pages 26+ of this pdf in case you are more a visual person.

 

[mommycat]

I only looked briefly at your linked doc, Pixels.

I could interpret the EZ-On instructions two different ways.

Option A - a la Debbie
I am attaching a plot from the EZ-On instructions that I modified to show my understanding of the instructions from the plot and the "no more than 45 degrees" wording, which to me says:
- measure from the location of the shoulder strap end of the tether (at top of vehicle seat back, I guess)
- ok to place it on the floor board anywhere between straight down (but NOT under the seat) and as far away from the seat as you can get without the strap going more horizontal than 45 degrees
- ok to put it on roof anywhere between straight up and as far as 45 degrees
This seems a bit odd maybe since in passenger cars with a panel behind the seat we have anchors straight back behind the seat, but I would have expected them to have labelled the angles from a horizontal line if they wanted the tether to be no more than 45 degrees from there (and thus further from the seat back).

Option B - a la Pixels
From the EZ-On instructions:

The anchor should not be installed more than 45 degrees from harness shoulder level.

This to me implies that the tether strap needs to be at shoulder level (meaning horizontal) or no more than 45 degrees from level, so not more vertical than that. This does not sit well with the plot, IMHO.


I think they need to clarify their instructions if we are having such a hard time deciphering what they mean!

 

[AustinMusic]

Gosh, I'm really glad I checked now!

From measuring the car, I have worked out that if I were to put the tether anchors where I planned then the angle between the boot floor and the tether strap would be just under 45 degrees (I think I made it 43 degrees by calculation). Having interpreted the instructions like Defrost did, I assumed this would be ok.

I have emailed E-Z-On about the problem so hopefully I'll get an answer. I will also call Ford to see if there are any pre-drilled holes that I have missed.

Thank you very much again for all the help,

 

[Defrost]

If the tether straps reach, the anchor point is close enough distance-wise. If the anchor point is too close, there won't be enough room to tighten the tether, because adjusted all the way small it will still be too long. (Actually, technically it must be within 2,000 mm. But what matters is that the straps reach.)

I don't think it would be possible to get it too close in a hatchback because you've got the length of the vehicle seat between regardless of the angle.

As for angle, straight back is okay, straight up or straight down is not.

Nearly every SUV/minivan/hatchback I've seen has the factory-installed TA's straight down.

 

[Victorious4]

I have emailed E-Z-On about the problem so hopefully I'll get an answer. I will also call Ford to see if there are any pre-drilled holes that I have missed.

:2thumbsup:

Nearly every SUV/minivan/hatchback I've seen has the factory-installed TA's straight down.

:yeahthat::question:

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org ~ please disregard typos!

 

[ketchupqueen]

Nearly every SUV/minivan/hatchback I've seen has the factory-installed TA's straight down.

Yes, but I've never seen a straight-down retrofit? I think that factory installed provides them with more anchorage options than bolted into the vehicle frame, as far as options to provide strength at different angles?

 

[Victorious4]

Yes, but I've never seen a straight-down retrofit?

It's common in trucks since straight down is kinda all there is. This was deemed acceptable by both manufacturers for using our 86Y in a F250 about 6 yrs ago.

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org ~ please disregard typos!

 

[ketchupqueen]

It's common in trucks since straight down is kinda all there is. This was deemed acceptable by both manufacturers for using our 86Y in a F250 about 6 yrs ago.

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org ~ please disregard typos!

Didn't know that, thanks! Is the bolt system they use any different?

 

[Victorious4]

Didn't know that, thanks! Is the bolt system they use any different?

Good question. I have no idea what the standard bolt looks like under the aesthetic covering of most vehicles, but the 86Y we had included a tether kit that was rated to higher weight limit than is standard in most vehicles. The dealership installed it for me after Ford sent them approval information.

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org ~ please disregard typos!

 

[snowbird25ca]

Yes, but I've never seen a straight-down retrofit? I think that factory installed provides them with more anchorage options than bolted into the vehicle frame, as far as options to provide strength at different angles?

I have seen straight down retro-fits. They look very very similar to the after-market tether anchors you can buy in store but not quite. I believe it's been SUV's that I've seen them in.

eta: I don't know what the underside looked like, only saw the top side which had the anchor shaped slightly different compared to those Dorel ones you can buy, but was really very similar, the anchor itself was just slightly wider and didn't reach up as far. I think the hole was also not quite as "tall" but was a bit wider. So overall I guess it was more boxy and didn't stick up as high. Maybe not as similar as I initially thought.

 

[UlrikeDG]

OP - I'd recommend contacting the company for confirmation, as you're basically relying on my memory here. My understanding has always been to get a 45-degree angle whenever possible, and to adjust the anchor close to the seat rather than farther if 45-degrees isn't possible.

I think this is the best advice! E-Z-On has a reputation for excellent customer service. They will be able to help you find a safe solution that works in your vehicle.

 

[Pixels]

Nearly every SUV/minivan/hatchback I've seen has the factory-installed TA's straight down.

Yes, if you look at the link I posted the diagrams show straight down as being acceptable. EZ-On says it's not (at least the way I interpret it) acceptable for the HDTA in the manual for the vest.

 

[AustinMusic]

Hi again,

I phoned E-Z-On Products and spoke to Yvonne who was very helpful.

She explained that the angle between the tether strap and the boot (trunk) floor cannot be greater than 45 degrees with the same being true of the angle between the tether strap and the vehicle roof if you choose to put the anchor on the roof. I have attached an image (my best effort in paint) to show this. I hope it is helpful.

I asked if the 43 degree angle I had calculated (based on using the original spot I had chosen for the tether anchor) was acceptable and she said it was ok.

Also, I contacted my local Ford dealer who said that our vehicle wouldn't have any tether anchors or pre-drilled holes because it was made before they were required in the UK.

Thank you all again for your advice, we really appreciate it. I'll try to remember to take some photos of how it goes.

 

[mommycat]

Thank you for following up on this, Gary. :thumbsup: