seat belt slides inside lock-off

[willowlott]

I'm trying to install our Britax Diplomat rf in the center of our 09 Forester. (The car that hates carseats I am learning.)

I got a pretty snug fit using the built in lock-off farthest from the seat belt buckle, but then when I gave the seat belt one last tug just to make sure I couldn't get it any tighter - I mean by grabbing the shoulder portion of the seat belt between the locked lock-off and belt buckle - the seat belt started sliding out of the locked lock-off. I noticed the seat belt was slightly bunched, so I tried re-installing with it not bunched and the seat belt still slid.

I'm thinking it probably shouldn't be able to do this?

Also, the outboard seat belt latches are *slightly* coming out from under the carseat. Is this a problem? I took a picture but I'm not sure you can tell.

eta: better picture of what I'm talking about with the outboard belt latches.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3393/3631487611_92250d2d5e.jpg

 

[canmom]

The seat looks like it may be over reclined... how old is the child who will go into this seat?

This looks like a 3-piece belt... is it coming from the ceiling of the vehicle? In my experience that type of belt can be quite difficult to say the least for installing car seats. Would you be opposed to moving the seat outboard and using LATCH? You might be able to get a better install that way.

 

[willowlott]

Ya I think it might have been a bit at that point - still early in the install. DD is a big head-flopper though so even at 16 months we like to have it pretty reclined. Everything I read says that it doesn't *have* to be reclined to 45degrees for an older child, but there is nothing wrong with it, right?

And yes, it is a 3-piece belt. She has been outboard with latch since we got the car in March but we'd just rather have her in the center if it is possible. Safer and more comfortable if there are two passengers in the back with her. The seat is good and snug in there, my concern was with whether the belt should be sliding through the lock-offs. The seat doesn't move if you wiggle it, it is only if you actually pull on the seat belt between the lock-off and buckle that it loosens.

And the picture was really just to ask about the outboard buckles being slightly under the seat like that... I'll try to get another picture in the morning to show more accurately what I mean.

 

[canmom]

Good for you keeping your DD rfing for so long!!!

I'm not entirely sure about being able to pull webbing out of the lock-off (hope I'm understanding correctly), that's a new one for me. I wouldn't think you should be able to do that though.

The picture looks concerning in that it appears that a good portion of the base of the car seat is not making contact with the vehicle seat. It also looks like the seat may be more than 45 degrees (hard to tell though). For older kids it is safer for them to be more upright, closer to 30 degrees. Is her head flopping forward or to the side?

 

[willowlott]

She's barely even 20lbs so even if I wanted to ff I couldn't!

Flops forward - chin to chest head off back of seat. I'm not worried about her stopping breathing or anything, I just think it doesn't look too comfortable or seem like it would be safe for her head to not be touching the back of the seat in an accident. I think a lot of it has to do with the head support. When the seat is at 45degrees, I estimate she is actually more like 35ish.

Maybe it is just time for a new seat

 

[ketchupqueen]

I have never heard of this issue either. My suggestion would be to call Britax and see what they say about it.

 

[mommycat]

Recline/gap under base: Do you have a pool noodle or something under the base, or is the toe of the base resting on the ledge at the seat bight? I would feel more comfortable adding a pool noodle and pulling the base away from the seat back a little bit so as not to rely on that ledge in a crash. But of course I don't know from a picture what it *really* looks/acts like. For the recline, I think you are just fine with her at 45 degrees. The smaller recline is sometimes recommended for older babies because they are usually heavier, which would make the seat rotate more in a crash. If she is a lightweight little thing, you likely have nothing to worry about in that respect. If you can take a picture from the side showing the seat in profile with the door ledge or something in the background to show horizontal, we can judge the recline of your seat better. Here are a couple of ways to quickly estimate recline angle: http://www.carseatsite.com/reclineangle.htm

Lockoff: I would call Britax to ask what they think. I would think that you would not want to see the belt moving through a locked lockoff, as that is the point of a lockoff, right? To lock the belt from moving! On the other hand, I would not be tightening the belt while the lock off is locked. [removed speculation on lockoffs because I was remembering them all wrong]

 

[Pixels]

Like others, I'm concerned that it's way over reclined. If you take a picture from the side, as square as possible, we can tell for sure.

The buckles coming from under the seat isn't a concern as long as the seat is pretty much centered in its belt. If it was over the buckles on one side, and inches away on the other, then I'd want to fix that. Even then, I don't know that it's a safety concern (if you were actually able to get less than one inch of movement that way), but it would drive me batty.

As far as the belt sliding through the lockoff as you described, I wouldn't worry about that, either, as long as it doesn't loosen up over time. Those lockoffs aren't going to hold closed through a crash. They'll pop right open, but by then the retractor on the seatbelt will lock, just like it would for an adult. The lockoffs are there to make sure the carseat is tight and in the correct position before the crash.

If it bothers you, you could always lock the seatbelt at the retractor.

Looking at the pic, it's hard to tell, but do you have both the lap and shoulder belts going through the lockoff? They should both be.

 

[willowlott]

Looking at the pic, it's hard to tell, but do you have both the lap and shoulder belts going through the lockoff? They should both be.

Yep both through lockoff.

Recline/gap under base: Do you have a pool noodle or something under the base, or is the toe of the base resting on the ledge at the seat bight?

Tightly rolled towel.

Lockoff: I would call Britax to ask what they think. I would think that you would not want to see the belt moving through a locked lockoff, as that is the point of a lockoff, right? To lock the belt from moving! On the other hand, I would not be tightening the belt while the lock off is locked. 1) If the seat is in tightly, I find it hard to imagine how you can get a good grip on the shoulder belt to pull it, as the belts should lie parallel and close together 2) Pulling on a belt that is actually tight between buckle and lockoff will mean that much of your pull force will be pulling at the lockoff, which could damage it, or at least make it slip, because you are pulling on that belt potentially a lot harder than what occurs when the seat tries to loosen itself with use. Also, because you are pulling upwards, you would be making the lockoff bow upwards and making the space inside bigger, while a seatbelt trying to loosen in use would pull in line with the lockoff, stressing it a lot less.

Hope this makes sense.

I don't really understand. The lockoffs are on the side of the seat so the belt runs up/down inside them so when you the seatbelt up, you are just pulling them the way they run though the lockoff.

Either way, it isn't something I normally do. And it wasn't like I was tugging at it. It really required hardly any force at all. The seat belts are paralell and in line but I think because of the shape of the Britax seat, there is lots of finger room under the seat belt making it not that difficult to get a grip on the shoulder portion.

And a picture:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3371/3633216524_a45dd81e34.jpg

 

[mommycat]

I don't really understand. The lockoffs are on the side of the seat so the belt runs up/down inside them so when you the seatbelt up, you are just pulling them the way they run though the lockoff.

Either way, it isn't something I normally do. And it wasn't like I was tugging at it. It really required hardly any force at all. The seat belts are paralell and in line but I think because of the shape of the Britax seat, there is lots of finger room under the seat belt making it not that difficult to get a grip on the shoulder portion.

Oops, sorry. I don't get to install my Marathons much and for some reason I was imagining them flat more like the TF ones... You are correct, they are on the sides and you wouldn't likely be causing prying action by pulling the belt. I need more sleep, obviously. I'm going to edit my post above to just delete that whole bit.

 

[Pixels]

That's exactly at 45 degrees right now. If it tilts back any more when you put the child in the seat, you'll need to reinstall a bit more upright.

 

[mommycat]

Recline - that looks pretty darn close to 45 degrees to me. It may be just a smidge over-reclined. I used MS Paint to verify that the siding and the running board are horizontal and then that the seat is at 45 degrees by using the line option and clicking shift key while dragging the line (shift snaps the line to horizontal, vertical and 45 degrees).

 

[willowlott]

So I reinstalled the seat at a bit less of a recline just to keep you all happy (I'm totally joking. I felt more comfortable with a few degrees wiggle room just in case).

Then we went for a drive. And DD fell asleep. And her head flopped waaaaay forward. So I pulled over and threw the seat in the ditch.

No but really, I realized what is going on. The whole head floppage issue started a few weeks ago after I had reinstalled the seat. I just figured that I didn't have the seat reclined enough but I realized today that at around the same time I had adjusted the height of the harness (which moves up the head support). The higher up the head support goes, the more toward vertical it goes.

Here's a picture to prove I'm not as crazy as this whole thread is making me sound:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3325/3634094191_516b69c41b.jpg

So as of now I'm not really sure what the best thing to do in this situation is.

And I just wanted to add that I am super appreciative of all your help so far.

 

[Calleiah]

I started having the same issue with my MA lockoffs (and popping open). I called Britax and they sent me new ones. You should call them too. Mine is 3 years old and they were initially not much help, but I called back and got a second CS rep that was more helpful and sent them out free of charge. No, they should NOT slip through.
Definitely give them a call!

 

[mommycat]

Ah, sorry to hear that you are having head flopping issues still. And I can certainly see that the headrest may push a child's head forward. Hope you hear back from someone with this seat to see if this is typical. Because aside from having the seat at 45 degrees, there's much you can do. My son's head flops as well if he is sleeping, in our AOE, and I am just constantly pulling over and reaching back to rest his head to the side, which works until the next time I need to take a sharp curve or pull from a stop quickly or uphill. I don't have my seat at 45 degrees because he doesn't sleep in the seat very often, though.