S/O - What cps-related change/update would be hardest for you to handle?

[Kecia]

But it also makes sense to me that if you yank the car seat with both hands and the car moves but the car seat doesn't, that you may have overtightened the belt to the point where, over time, it can weaken the seat belt and potentially put undue stress on the belt path of the child restraint, as well as damaging your upholstery.

See, this is one of those things that (I'm guessing) you heard from one of your instructors and they probably heard it from one of their instructors and so it keeps going year after year. But I'm going to challenge you on this one(totally in a nice, friendly way) and ask you to back up this statement with something from a credible source. Are any of these concerns addressed anywhere in the student/tech manual? Have you seen them addressed or noted as a concern in a CR manual or a vehicle manual? A CEU presentation from a manufacturer rep? I haven't, but that doesn't mean it's not out there.

Now I certainly don't claim to be a webbing expert either but my understanding has always been that webbing will only stretch and subsequently weaken under extreme dynamic crash forces. And that nothing we can do with our bare hands and little tricks (like reclining and then uprighting the vehicle seat) can stretch or damage belt webbing or compromise the CRs ability to perform as intended in a crash.

I agree that it's not necessary to get it rock-the-car-solid if the seat doesn't want to install that way easily. As long as it's less than 1" from side-to-side and front-to-back, that's good enough. But to state that there is some possible detriment to a rock-solid install is questionable.

 

[ketchupqueen]

I do have a hard time accepting things that go against what I generally consider true, I guess- but if you can SHOW ME THE DATA I'm willing to change my mind.

It's just that most companies don't seem willing to do that. When pushed, they seem to admit that their recommendation is not based on evidence, and I have a problem with that.

 

[SafeDad]

The ProSport is not too far off this description. It must be untethered at 52 pounds or more.

Did they state that this was due to peformance? Or, is it simply another arbitrary limit like many other manufacturers use when vehicle manufacturers can't be bothered to list one?

But SafeKids did put out a notice a few months ago about how we should avoid using "tricks" to get tighter-than-necessary installs (reclining then uprighting the seat back, for example).

To me, the Summer Infant device falls into that "unnecessary trick" category.

But anyway.

Yeah, not tethering past 40/48 pounds is something I just will not accept without some sort of logic or evidence provided, neither of which has been. I don't consider that an evidence-based recommendation.

I missed this one. Reclining/unreclining isn't much of a trick. It's a routine adjustment of the vehicle. Heck, a locking clip could be considered to be a trick, too. Did they provide some evidence or example of a failure to back this up? I'm almost certain I've seen one or more carseat companies suggest this "trick" for installation, perhaps in a manual or online video.

Again, no agency should be stating anything contrary to the manufacturer. And rules of thumb that cover things not stated by the manufacturer are just that. And as we've seen in the case of HWH tethering, the rules of thumb can be changed on a whim, with no supporting evidence to support the change.

 

[Brigala]

See, this is one of those things that (I'm guessing) you heard from one of your instructors and they probably heard it from one of their instructors and so it keeps going year after year. But I'm going to challenge you on this one(totally in a nice, friendly way) and ask you to back up this statement with something from a credible source. Are any of these concerns addressed anywhere in the student/tech manual? Have you seen them addressed or noted as a concern in a CR manual or a vehicle manual? A CEU presentation from a manufacturer rep? I haven't, but that doesn't mean it's not out there.

Nope. The only source I have was the instructor who cautioned us against it getting TOO crazy tight. I think my instructor was reasonably credible, but no it's not on the same level as having data and statistics or a peer-reviewed journal article to back it up (or even just CR documentation).

Keep in mind, he was talking about situations where they used to have three adults putting all their weight in the car seat and a fourth tightening down the belt; I don't think he intended to say that one person installing a car seat alone was likely to tighten the seat belt to the point of damage. And I've seen enough damaged seat belts in used cars which I surmise were from car seats that I think there may be something to it. But of course it could just be CPST urban legend as well.

 

[LISmama810]

Did they state that this was due to peformance? Or, is it simply another arbitrary limit like many other manufacturers use when vehicle manufacturers can't be bothered to list one?

I missed this one. Reclining/unreclining isn't much of a trick. It's a routine adjustment of the vehicle. Heck, a locking clip could be considered to be a trick, too. Did they provide some evidence or example of a failure to back this up? I'm almost certain I've seen one or more carseat companies suggest this "trick" for installation, perhaps in a manual or online video.

Again, no agency should be stating anything contrary to the manufacturer. And rules of thumb that cover things not stated by the manufacturer are just that. And as we've seen in the case of HWH tethering, the rules of thumb can be changed on a whim, with no supporting evidence to support the change.

I honestly don't remember. It was in one of the monthly CPS newsletters a couple months back. IIRC, they weren't saying not to do it at all, but not to resort to more than is necessary. So, if you get a less-than-an-inch install without reclining/unreclining the seatback, let it be.

They sited the potential for breaking parts of the seat or vehicle, I believe. I think it was a recommendation from one of their working groups, and I sort of remember a couple car seat reps (Britax? Chicco?) being part of it.

I want to say it was within the past six months. Most definitely within the past year.

 

[tjham]

This is old news but I thought it was interesting, that when the FPSVD (good to 55 lbs) came out, it did NOT require HUGS. That told me that the MA probably didn't have a problem until after 55 lbs. So if they started saying on Britax seats that you didn't have to actually use the HUGS until 55 lbs, I would be OK with that. (I'd say most kids don't get that far anyway.)

OK, that's the opposite of what we were supposed to say.

 

[ketchupqueen]

I don't think the article in the CPS Express actually said not to use "tricks," I think they may have said "mechanical assistance." I can look it up though, I posted a thread at the time.

ETA: Here you go, this thread contains the full text: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=150184

 

[Louisa]

In general i think i am good at handeling change and adapting to new ideas, but sometimes, like with the prodigy I am perhaps concerned. Not every new idea is a good one and sometimes something that that seems like the best thing since sliced bread turns out not to be that great after all, And some times it turns out to be fantastic.

So I don't think i am apposed to change, but sometimes when something comes out that is verry diffferent from what i am accustomed to i approach it with some caution and a lot of questions.

 

[SafeDad]

I honestly don't remember. It was in one of the monthly CPS newsletters a couple months back. IIRC, they weren't saying not to do it at all, but not to resort to more than is necessary. So, if you get a less-than-an-inch install without reclining/unreclining the seatback, let it be.

That is far more reasonable. I sometimes use the recline "trick" and have never seen a scrap of evidence that there is any risk. Obviously, you can always force anything to the point of failure, but the vehicle seat back recline mechanism isn't really offering a significant mechanical advantage in terms of leverage.

I don't think the article in the CPS Express actually said not to use "tricks," I think they may have said "mechanical assistance." I can look it up though, I posted a thread at the time.

ETA: Here you go, this thread contains the full text: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=150184

That statement doesn't seem too bad. It was contained in a quoted opinion from one person at Delphi. In context, it seems like good advice to me. Over-tightening can definitely be an issue. I'm glad they didn't simply make a blanket policy statement without providing any supporting evidence!

 

[bnsnyde]

I usually aim for zero movement. That way I seem to always end up OK.
With my RF Radian, and my seats in the van, the seatbelt install just won't get it TOO tight, if there is such a thing.

Latch would go tighter (maybe because it gets pulled back and down into the seat) but the seatbelt gave me the better angle. So I used seatbelt. It's a very, very solid install. Probably not "rock solid" if I really push the issue. It's the most "loose" seat in our car, but that's not saying much. A tug at the belt path shows no obvious movement.