Question Is there ever an age you would be ok with using a lap belt?

[mlohry]

So we have 2 boys' that are 6 and 8, an old classic car that we use about 20 times in the summer. This year we got 86 Y harnesses for the boys'. While we were riding in the car tonight, I questioned how long those harnesses would last for, I know they go to 160 some pounds, but I really don't think they will fit that long or the kids won't want to wear them when they get close to the teen years. I am amazed as an adult how well the lap belt fits me, it rides really low on my hips, it's really a better fit than our Ody's lap/ shoulder belt.

Is there an age that bones are strong enough to use a lap only belt? This car isn't going anywhere.

 

[carseatcoach]

I'm 42 and won't ride in a lap-only belt.

 

[monica-m]

I'm 42 and won't ride in a lap-only belt.

:yeahthat: except I'm not 42

 

[Kac]

Nope. I won't sit I'm one and I'm 20. I drove my brother and three boys from his hockey team to practice on Mondays all year, and one person was always in a lap belt to go two minutes from school to the rink. I HATED it and it made me so nervous. That's the only time I've ever had to use it.

 

[wendytthomas]

Nope. They're never ok. Nathan rode in one in our friend's Jeep last week (1956 Jeep, he had lapbelts retrofitted). Nathan's 35, our friend is 60. And they were both joking about how upset I would be when I found out they had only lapbelts and they were riding around in them. And yep, I was. Neither of them should have done it. So not safe, especially in a 1956 front seat. They would have been killed in what would have been a minor crash with shoulder belts and/or airbags.

Wendy

 

[ketchupqueen]

I have permanent damage from being in a crash with a lap-only belt (good fit) at age 11. If zombies were attacking and there was no other option, I'd use it- better than nothing. But in non-emergent circumstances? Never. If people over 168 lbs. will ride there, you'll need to retrofit shoulder belts; if you can't, you just can't all ride in the car.

 

[Kecia]

A lap-only belt that is positioned low across the hip bones of an older child isn't likely to cause internal injuries. The issue is that there is no upper body restraint and if you're unlucky enough to be involved in a crash, the upper body will jack-knife over that lap belt and your face may smash into your knees unless it hits something else (like the back of the front seats) first.

Still, it's certainly better than being totally unrestrained since a lap belt will usually prevent ejection. And if an older tween/teen/adult is afforded good belt fit by the lap belt then it's less of an issue than with a younger kid who is at risk of injury from both the lack of upper body restraint AND improper belt fit over the abdomen.

14 years ago I crashed my DH's '73 Mustang into a tree at about 45 mph wearing just a lap belt and even though I had some non life-threatening injuries that probably could have been prevented by a lap/shoulder belt - the belt did its job and kept me inside the vehicle. I'm here today because of a lap belt.

DH always has a classic car or two hanging around (right now it's a 69 Camaro and an 87 Jeep Wrangler) and while I don't allow our boys (age 14 and almost 7) to ride in them, I wouldn't judge someone else who did occasionally allow their tween/teenage kids to ride in a lap-only belt. The good news is that for now you have the 86Y and hopefully they'll fit in them for a few more years before you have to make that kind of decision.

 

[jjordan]

I think it goes more by situation than by age. When ds was about 15 months old, he cut his finger and the nearest urgent care was 30 minutes away. So we all piled into the car to take him. I felt like I had to be in the back seat next to him because his finger was bleeding profusely (and he was hysterical). Only problem was that the middle back seat seating position in both of our cars is a lap-only belt, and both lap/shoulder belts were being used for car seats. No time to rearrange car seats, so I rode in a lap belt. Maybe not a *true* emergency, but enough of one where it seemed to be the best option at the time.

 

[mlohry]

All good info. I really wish it was possible to retrofit the seats with lap/ shoulder belts, but because it's a convertible, it makes it a lot harder. I guess there is some car that has the belts built into the seats, not the body of the car, that my DH thinks might work. But taking the cars whole seat system out and putting a new one in, seems a little hazardous too. I always think long term, thankfully I won't have to worry about this for a while.

Kecia, thanks for understanding! Boys and their toys, it's hard to convince them they need to give them up because we don't think they are the safest. The car has been around longer than me, so it's tough to win that battle.

 

[SignCuer]

No unless its necessary. I judge the situation with ages, weights, location, reason to do so. Normally there's a car-seat in that spot in my 3rd row of my minivan (1996 Ford Windstar) anyway but I have ran in a situation once where I needed to use the lapbelt only seat for an adult.

It depends on the situation. Its not ideal but if needed, I will use it according to the situation.

 

[christineka]

I'd be okay riding in a lap-only belt if the car was going 5mph on a deserted road where there was .00001 % chance of crashing into something. I wouldn't be driving around town in a lap-only belt, though.

BTW, those 86y harnesses expire after 5 years. You'd think they could at least last 6-8 years, but they don't apparently.

 

[mlohry]

I'd be okay riding in a lap-only belt if the car was going 5mph on a deserted road where there was .00001 % chance of crashing into something. I wouldn't be driving around town in a lap-only belt, though.

BTW, those 86y harnesses expire after 5 years. You'd think they could at least last 6-8 years, but they don't apparently.

I know, I was surprised that you only get 5 years out of them.

 

[Evolily]

I'm never ok with them.

In case of zombies I would use a 86y over the weight limit before I'd use a lap belt only. But neither solution sits well with me.

Also, aside from very low speeds in, say, a parade or track or deserted road, I'm not comfortable with riding in classic cars when you have other options. Not safe enough IMHI, even with lap/shoulder belts.

 

[SignCuer]

I'm never ok with them.

In case of zombies I would use a 86y over the weight limit before I'd use a lap belt only. But neither solution sits well with me.

Also, aside from very low speeds in, say, a parade or track or deserted road, I'm not comfortable with riding in classic cars when you have other options. Not safe enough IMHI, even with lap/shoulder belts.

That's, personally, is not ok. If over the weight limit, its now illegal to use. Its not illegal to use a lapbelt. We don't know what will happen if someone over the weight limit used the ez-on 86y and got in an accident. What if the top tether failed? Basically now the person is in a lapbelt since the top tether failed. So now that person is back to the original position he/she was at before the harness. So definitely not. That's why I prefer making the lap belt as a last resort than ban it altogether because it is actually SAFER than using something that is illegal.

 

[joolsplus3]

That's, personally, is not ok. If over the weight limit, its now illegal to use. Its not illegal to use a lapbelt. We don't know what will happen if someone over the weight limit used the ez-on 86y and got in an accident. What if the top tether failed? Basically now the person is in a lapbelt since the top tether failed. So now that person is back to the original position he/she was at before the harness. So definitely not. That's why I prefer making the lap belt as a last resort than ban it altogether because it is actually SAFER than using something that is illegal.

Well... maybe. As in the case of recommending top tether use beyond the stated limits, it may still be a valid personal choice, because the harness WILL slow the body still, before the tether deforms (and in the case of the old Toyota Echo with malforming tethers, the injury risk of the test dummy was even reduced, because the tether absorbed the energy, not the dummy).

Still, yes, definitely a personal choice, one we should never recommend, and definitely illegal. Yet I don't see any basis for it being less safe, same as saying seatbelts are only good to 300lbs, so should I not wear one if I weigh 400 pounds?

And yet, I'm about to be in a 91 Explorer with an ALR lapbelt...I'll ride in it, instead of making one of my kids. If I could afford to rent a minivan, I would

 

[jujumum]

That's, personally, is not ok. If over the weight limit, its now illegal to use. Its not illegal to use a lapbelt. We don't know what will happen if someone over the weight limit used the ez-on 86y and got in an accident. What if the top tether failed? Basically now the person is in a lapbelt since the top tether failed. So now that person is back to the original position he/she was at before the harness. So definitely not. That's why I prefer making the lap belt as a last resort than ban it altogether because it is actually SAFER than using something that is illegal.

Whether use of a seatbelt or carseat restraint is 'legal' or 'illegal' varies by the laws of individual local government, county, and state laws.

Although using an 86y harness above the weight limit may be against the manufacturer's instructions and may not be advised by Safekids, it is not likely 'illegal' according to adopted local goverment laws.

 

[thepeach80]

AJ is using one today on the bus they use for field trips. Not ideal but that's what happens at school when he outgrows all harnessed seats we have.

 

[Kat_Momof3]

unless we are talking an emergency (like fleeing the zombie attack or some other "GET OUT NOW" evacuation where you have to take one vehicle and someone has to sit in it)....

ABSOLUTELY NEVER

an adult would still likely suffer bad spinal injuries from not having their upper body restrained.

I agree that riding slowly through christmas lights (where Damian asked and I let him ride in the lap-only belt so he could see more... but then he asked to move back... because he didn't like not having a shoulderbelt... he hadn't thought about the safety... he actually asked me why they didn't have a shoulderbelt there, because it didn't feel safe to him), a parade, something like that is very different.

I also think it's different in a bus (though I'd prefer a child ride without it and let compartmentalization do the work or insist a carseat or appropriate sized harness be installed)

But anyway... in my van, we view that middle third row seat as if it were not there... we don't consider it useable... it is for harnessed seats ONLY.

When my 13yr old niece and 9.5yr old nephew are here in a couple of weeks, if I do take all 5 kids somewhere, you can best believe I'll be letting my niece sit in front (and if she weren't old enough, I'd put Damian up front)... I won't put anyone in a lap-only belt.

Oh, and if I would anticipate a 7th child, we'd either have another adult have to go everywhere with us and take two cars, or I'd be ordering an RSTV for Ruthie NOW.

 

[Evolily]

That's, personally, is not ok. If over the weight limit, its now illegal to use. Its not illegal to use a lapbelt. We don't know what will happen if someone over the weight limit used the ez-on 86y and got in an accident. What if the top tether failed? Basically now the person is in a lapbelt since the top tether failed. So now that person is back to the original position he/she was at before the harness. So definitely not. That's why I prefer making the lap belt as a last resort than ban it altogether because it is actually SAFER than using something that is illegal.

Did you not catch the zombies part? I never said either was OK. And if there are zombies I'm not about to start worrying about legalities or best practice, I simply meant that I would prefer sub optimal torso restraint, even if it fails, to no torso restraint. In an 86Y you still have a lap belt if it fails. And, again, there are those zombies

 

[christineka]

Did you not catch the zombies part? I never said either was OK. And if there are zombies I'm not about to start worrying about legalities or best practice, I simply meant that I would prefer sub optimal torso restraint, even if it fails, to no torso restraint. In an 86Y you still have a lap belt if it fails. And, again, there are those zombies

I live out in wasteland. If something goes wrong out there in the middle of the desert nearish my home, there could be an emergency where we all have to leave. I'd ride in a lap-only belt rather than stay here and breathe radiation. (I also believe if such a state of emergency occurred, we'd be driving 5 mph out. There are only 3 exits from this valley.)