Center untethered vs outboard tethered for an Odyssey

[TheGirls]

So, my 3yo needs to turn FF since she's rapidly nearing the limits of her seat. I have a 2007 Odyssey with the Plus-One seat that makes it an 8 passenger. I really like having all three of my kids in the center row (3yo DD, 9mo twins). I'd strongly prefer to have DD FF in the center position for a variety of convenience reasons, and the seat fits great with a nice tight install there. However there's no tether point for the top tether. But the center is safer by like 25% than outboard, all else being equal. I know tethers are safer than not, but I don't know by how much. So which is safer? And by how much? How reasonable would it be to put her in the center? Does it make a difference if it would keep her brothers from screaming as much in the car (she is super awesome about entertaining them) and that I wouldn't be handing stuff to them as much while driving?

Stats, if it matters:
car: 2007 Honda Odyssey EX
kid: 3y3m old, 39" tall, 38lbs
seat: Either a TrueFit (classic version and my first choice for her) or a Complete Air 65. If it made a difference I'd be willing to buy her a new seat to have her in the center.

 

[Ninetales]

I think the Nautilus and the Radian are supposed to do very well untethered.

 

[monica-m]

I would rather have a child outboard in a tethered seat than in the center untethered. Tethering reduces head excursion 4 to 6 inches. The benefit of tethering is greater than the benefit of the child riding center.

 

[ketchupqueen]

Tethers are really important, I'd probably choose tethered, even though the center is the safest position, because of HOW much further forward the body moves in an untethered seat. There are some graphics in this blog post: http://carseatblog.com/9226/what-is-a-tether/

I found in my crash that the tethers were also a huge safety benefit in a side impact crash, because they kept the head more stable, while the bottom of the seats rotated out where the seatbelts were.

In the end, it's your choice, and there are no head-to-head comparison studies so we don't really know. But I thought I'd share the choice I would make, as a parent and a tech, with my own kids.

 

[Pixels]

Prospective data used by NHTSA says tethering is about 9% safer than not tethering.

 

[wendytthomas]

Prospective data used by NHTSA says tethering is about 9% safer than not tethering.

Good to know.

The center is about 30% safer. While there will be more head excursion untethered in the center, there's less to hit directly in front. But not all crashes are exactly frontal, so there may still be some lateral movement toward a front seat. And as KQ said, there is a side impact benefit to the tether.

I don't know what I'd do, honestly. What I do know is that even untethered, a seat passes testing. So your child is safe in the backseat in a properly used seat. If it makes your life terrible having her in a tethered position, then I probably wouldn't stress the "extra" protection of the tether, or I would forgo it for the "extra" protection of the center. I don't think you're going to make her less safe either way.

Wendy

 

[TheGirls]

So much to think about!! Yeah, I can definitely see it from both sides. She's outboard (tethered) right now, and it doesn't make my life terrible, but she's asking to sit between the twins and the twins are getting big enough to pull each others hair when side-by-side. Loverly though that is.

I was thinking that it helps some that there's nothing directly in front of her to hit, though I'm sure in a bad crash things go in all manner of directions.

Before the twins were born I had her outboard (RF) because it was easier to get to her. It strikes me that this may actually be less of a compromise than that. Or maybe even safer, if center is 30% safer and tethered is only 9%...

I'm leaning toward trying her out in the center, in the absence of good data.

I'm assuming here that I can not borrow the tether anchor from one of the outboard seats. It would put the tether at about a 30 degree angle. Obviously the twins are RF, so the tether anchors are not in use. Is this correct?

 

[TheGirls]

I think the Nautilus and the Radian are supposed to do very well untethered.

Naturally, since that seating position is not compatible with the Radian, and there's no way on earth a Nautilus would fit in a 3-across there. Ah well.

 

[TheGirls]

Also, I've been looking at this for head excursion. There are numbers for the TrueFit, but none for the Complete Air. Any idea why? Anyone have numbers for the Complete Air? Either seat would work in the center, and the boys will fit fine in either, so if I'm going down that road I'd pick whichever has the best head excursion numbers, at least until the smaller twin starts approaching 35lbs.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/Cars/testing/comply/fmvss213/Janu2010ed.pdf

 

[wendytthomas]

The Complete Air may not have been out when they did their testing. Piper was nine when it came out, so July 2009. If that report is January 2010, they may have been done with testing before July 2009.

Also, take all of those with a grain of salt. If you're only looking at the head excursion numbers, that may not be the whole picture.

http://carseatblog.com/4852/when-trust-us-isnt-enough/

Wendy

 

[Brigala]

The safest place for your child is not to be in an accident in the first place.

If putting her in the center means fewer distractions for you, as a driver, then IMO that's the safest place for everyone in the car for her to be in. I think that should factor in to your decision.

I know car seats are all about safety in the event of an accident, but the best accidents are the ones that are avoided entirely. In my opinion, that's the first line of defense as far as traffic safety is concerned. Hang up and drive, and keep the peace among the children in the car. After that, you carefully and properly use car seats as your second line of defense since you can't be sure that the driver next to you is taking the same prevention precautions you're taking.

My vote is obviously for the center position.

 

[TheGirls]

Alright, I'm going out this morning to turn her, and I'm trying for the center. (RF Complete Air, FF TrueFit, RF Complete Air) I'm going to try to teach the 3yo to at least get her arms in the straps too (currently I do the whole thing) so I can stop having to reach across so much. But I think I can buckle her from the front seat if she's in the middle...

 

[spokaneCPST]

Does Honda allow using the rear seatbelt as a tether anchor? If so, you could keep her in the middle and use the middle rear seatbelt to tether her seat. I'll get my LATCH manual and try to find out for you.

 

[spokaneCPST]

Well, on page 59 of the newest LATCH manual, it says that Honda allows this use generally (seat belt as tether anchor), but on page 257, it says that Honda does not allow seat belts to be used as tether anchors.

 

[mama d]

Well, on page 59 of the newest LATCH manual, it says that Honda allows this use generally (seat belt as tether anchor), but on page 257, it says that Honda does not allow seat belts to be used as tether anchors.

Huh? (Puzzled face)

 

[ketchupqueen]

Personally, it's something I'm comfortable with- but only if necessary- whether the manufacturer officially allows it or not. It does eliminate a seating position, though, and also requires that the back row be up.

 

[spokaneCPST]

Yes, the LATCH manual has me confused too, but I agree with KQ.

 

[luckyclov]

First of all, you deserve a trophy for successfully getting 3 kids in child seats across the 2nd row of an '07 Ody. That Plus-One seat is crazy skinny.

Second of all, personally, I would choose a tethered seat over an untethered seat all day long, every day of the week. And (again, personally), I would be OK using a 3rd row seatbelt as a tether point for a seat installed in the 2nd row, it it were something I deemed neccessary.