Best harnessed seat for 10-year-old?

[InternationalMama]

Yes, of course we won't get to 85 lbs. But I expect it to be safe if a child were.
I except it to be safe for a 10-year-old who DOES fit with the harness above shoulders. 60 something lbs.

Does that make sense? If I put a 10-year-old who fits perfectly, as mine does, I don't expect in a crash to have a neck load problem. Was this not tested?
How could Britax make a seat that a lot of you feel is potentially unsafe due to neckload, and that you won't use past age 6 harnessed?

Surely it's tested? Neckload is important. I thought in testing head excursion and such were tested, too.
So, I'd want to Frontier85 SICT to fit any child within the range, and not compromise safety. Or...what good are company guidelines or what good is this seat? It does not say that at age 6 or so you should NOT use the harness. Maybe it should, but would Britax use my child as a crash dummy? Huh? So there is no reliable dummy that was used?

For a child who needs a harness at that height and weight, the Britax Frontier is a great choice and it's wonderful that a seat with such a high height and weight limit is an option for children who really need it. (For example, I'm thinking of someone with severe autism or certain types of problems with muscle tone etc. Or a child who just has a really long torso!) For a 10 year old who doesn't need a harness (has the physical and mental maturity to sit correctly in a booster) *I* think that a booster is safER. This doesn't mean that the Frontier is UNsafe just as a forward-facing harnessed seat isn't unsafe for a three year old, but I keep mine rear-facing because I believe it's safER.

ETA: Real life crashes are different than crash tests and real people are different than crash test dummies. Britax can't test every crash scenario with every child. The seat is the safest option for some children, but I probably won't ever need to buy one for my relatively short-torsoed and very rule-abiding DS.

 

[luckyclov]

How could Britax make a seat that a lot of you feel is potentially unsafe due to neckload, and that you won't use past age 6 harnessed?

That's not what ANY of us are saying, actually.

It would not be *my* ideal situation to have a neurotypical 10-year old child, without any sort of underlying issue involved, who would sit properly in a booster seat, in a harness.

As I mentioned before, I'm working really hard to get my DD (7 yrs 4 mo) out of a harness. At her size, I'm more comfortable with the points of protection provided by a seatbelt and a properly fitted booster. If I had no other options, because there was a more severe issue or she still wouldn't comply with staying positioned, well, she'd have to stay in a harness. Because a 7-year old, 58-lb child in a harness is indisputably safer then the same child in a booster seat who is leaning or slouching or having a meltdown. There's no arguement there.

If you have your heart set on harnessing your 10-year old, fine. Do whatever it is that helps you sleep better at night.

Perhaps you should contact Britax in reference to your manufacturer-testing specific questions. If the seat is rated to 85 lbs and is on the market, yes, it's passed testing by the manufacturer at the limit(s), but that's all I can tell you. I don't have access to any other information.

 

[Baylor]

Yes, of course we won't get to 85 lbs. But I expect it to be safe if a child were.
I except it to be safe for a 10-year-old who DOES fit with the harness above shoulders. 60 something lbs.

Does that make sense? If I put a 10-year-old who fits perfectly, as mine does, I don't expect in a crash to have a neck load problem. Was this not tested?
How could Britax make a seat that a lot of you feel is potentially unsafe due to neckload, and that you won't use past age 6 harnessed?

Surely it's tested? Neckload is important. I thought in testing head excursion and such were tested, too.
So, I'd want to Frontier85 SICT to fit any child within the range, and not compromise safety. Or...what good are company guidelines or what good is this seat? It does not say that at age 6 or so you should NOT use the harness. Maybe it should, but would Britax use my child as a crash dummy? Huh? So there is no reliable dummy that was used?

What I have discovered is that that weight limit seems to be more geared toward small overweight kids than kids that are taller and slimmer.

The thing is at 10 the child is mature enough and should be able to booster in a good solid booster without any step down in risk.

If this child were 5 or even 6 I can understand the purchase and as anyone will tell you when I came here I was ready to harness to adulthood. But I have since learned that there is a time where boostering is not only appropriate, but could be ultimately safer when discussing neck loads on a larger child.

I think that before you make the purchase, you may want to have a seat check and maybe see if you can get a tech to talk to you about really good boosters for a child of 10 along with your car to make sure they are really compatible.

 

[Brigala]

We honestly don't have any data to clearly tell us whether a booster or a harness are safER over the age of 5 and 40 lbs.

If your daughter is happy riding in a harness at age 10 and you want to spend the money on a harness to keep her in one, then I do not think you're making a less safe choice. If she objects to the harness, however, I think you run the risk of essentially encouraging her to rebel against you as soon as she is too old for you to dictate how she rides in a car any more. And all for the sake of a perceived benefit that may or may not be real. That is what I was trying to say earlier.

I am not convinced that the disadvantages of neck loads necessarily outweigh potential advantages of a harness at any age. Nor am I convinced that the advantages of a harness necessarily outweigh the risks of increased neck load. It all really depends on what kind of accident you're in, which type of restraint is best. A 3-point seat belt may be better in a frontal collision (the most common type if injury-producing accident) and a 5-point may be better in a roll-over (one of the more deadly types), and who knows which one might be better in a side-impact; it probably depends on exactly how you're hit.

But the Frontier does make a nice, solid, incredibly tall booster, so if you want one, there's no reason NOT to get one (other than cost) no matter what you and your daughter decide about harnessing.

 

[scatterbunny]

There are no testing standards for neck load, there is no instrumentation on the dummies to measure neck load. It is a theoretical concern mainly brought up on these forums because of Sweden's extremely good track record when it comes to child passenger safety. In Sweden, apparently they believe that increased neck loads for forward-facing harnessed children is a very real danger, so they rear-face children to age 3-5, and then move directly to a belt positioning booster. It's almost unheard of in Sweden to ever harness a child forward-facing. They go straight from rear-facing harness to belt positioning booster (and again, their safety track record is pretty amazing).

Just to reiterate: seat testing does not tell us whether neck loads are acceptable or not. We have to go with our gut on this one, unfortunately, and many of us believe that it's more prudent to move to a booster when the child is big enough and mature enough to use it properly. There are cases where a harness for older, neurotypical kids would be necessary: seating positions with only lap belts, for example. Other parents believe having five points of protection is always safer, and I used to be one of those. I just see neck loading as a very probable concern. We don't have many older kids using harnesses to have real world data to back up the theory, and we don't have crash test data indicating one thing or another. It's a real gray area...which is why I said I wouldn't tell you NOT to use a Frontier for her in the primary vehicle, as long as it fits her well, but I WOULD encourage you to get a dedicated booster for her to use in other vehicles.

 

[Splash]

I'd still get the frontier, as it is the highest booster on the market, and cost is no concern to you.
That said, I'm well known here as the parent who will happily drop $900 on a seat and not blink, if I think it gives my kid an advantage. I also have my six year old part time in a hbb, and occasionally in a backless. He's harnessed in one car solely because buckling a booster is a PITA. I do not believe he's less safe in either car. And I have gobs of seats at my disposal, and no concern for money when it comes to seats. Still have him in a booster. A five year old booster I bought used, at that. (from a VERY VERY trusted friend, NO concerns whatsoever about the seat)

I would not move a child from a hbb.to a backless without other considerations, as I think that IS a significant enough difference in safety to give me pause. Harness to hbb for could of appropriate size/cognition I do not consider to be a difference worth fretting over.

 

[HONEYhas3]

Welcome to the board.

My daughter is 6yr old and is 49inches and 62lbs. she is in a HBB 75% of the time, and in a FRXT for long trips. She is on the highest harness setting and will use the seat until she reaches the 65lb max weight or is even with the harness. Once she reaches 7yo and asks to no be harnessed any longer, I will stop putting her in a 5 point.

 

[4boysmom]

It has at least been alluded to but part, if not a huge part, of the 85 in the seat is the ability to keep harnessed that 80 pound not yet 5yo who is becoming more and more the norm harnessed if they aren't ready to be boostered. At my kiddos last physical at age 10 he was 92ish pounds which was high up there in %iles/bmi chart... whatever measure they gave... but I'd say he is much closer to "50%ile" if not less weighty than his classmates. There are a lot of "fat faced" stocky kids and he is the oldest in the class so some of these kids are up to 18 mo younger than him. I am a bit agast that he will likely outweigh me soon (and he is not a really fat kid. He lacks a six pack but he doesn't have a real muffin top to speak of and a 10 husky is not tight on him and is too long) but there are kinders that I know are wearing clothes that are larger than I wear. There is a real need for higher weight seats whether or not those kids' parents are taking advantage of the availability.

 

[essnce629]

DS1 is 8 years old, and about 51" tall and 68lbs and will be outgrowing his FR85 in harness-mode in the next few months most likely. I definately don't think he will fit in the harness till 9. We had a Britax Regent up until 2 months ago (letting my friend borrow it now) and he still had about 2" of room to grow in that seat, but the only way to get one of those now is probably to buy a used one.

 

[jeminijad]

Yes, of course we won't get to 85 lbs. But I expect it to be safe if a child were.
I except it to be safe for a 10-year-old who DOES fit with the harness above shoulders. 60 something lbs.

...

So, I'd want to Frontier85 SICT to fit any child within the range, and not compromise safety. Or...what good are company guidelines or what good is this seat? It does not say that at age 6 or so you should NOT use the harness. Maybe it should, but would Britax use my child as a crash dummy? Huh? So there is no reliable dummy that was used?

Think about the argument that you are making. The manufacturer rates it to 85lbs, therefore, that must be safer than ANOTHER device also rated for an 85lb child (a HBB)? Not necessarily.

Also, manufacturers put 30 lbs on backless boosters. By your logic, if that # is on the box, you expect it to be tested and safe. But no one here thinks that the testing and words on the box/in the manual mean that it is ideal.

I just don't want you to take it as a company not doing their due dillegence. That isn't it. The seat will offer protection to an 85lb child below a certain height; it doesn't follow that it is the best or ultimate protection.

 

[Pixels]

Another reason that a harness might not be best for a neurotypical 10yo is that the more directly connected the body is to the frame of the vehicle, the better. Being connected to the vehicle is what provides the most protection.

The more directly connected to the frame of the vehicle, the better. Using the vehicle's primary restraint system (the seat belt) accomplishes this. Using an add-on child restraint adds another link to the chain. That distances the child's connection to the frame of the vehicle, giving the child less than optimal protection. Also, it adds in more opportunities for something to go wrong. If the child is in a booster, what could go wrong? The seat belt could fail. If the child is in a harnessed seat, what could go wrong? The seat belt could fail, or the harness could fail, or perhaps the seat wasn't installed correctly in the first place, or maybe there is a major flaw with the seat as in a recall that hasn't happened yet. The more links in the chain, the more likely that one of them will be weaker than it's supposed to be. It only takes one weak link to break the chain.