Best harnessed seat for 10-year-old?

[AustinMusic]

The previous posters have already provided excellent advice - far in advance of that which I could offer. The booster vs harness argument has also been mentioned so I shall not reiterate that of which I'm sure you are already aware.

If you remain keen on harnessing as long as possible and do not wish to switch to a booster then you might want to look at the E-Z-On 86Y harness or E-Z-On vests, should the Frontier 85 not provide the solution.

E-Z-On products usually serve as 'niche' products designed for very specific markets (special needs/school bus etc) and are not usually purchased for family vehicles until all other 'standard' options have been ruled out.

We use the E-Z-On Vest and are very happy with it however it was purchased as a solution to an awkward lap belt only situation where use of a booster or the lap belt alone, would have been unsafe. If we could have used a booster, we would have done so.

 

[gsdguenter]

Just curious, how does your 10 yr. old feel about harnessing? I know they are kids and we as adults need to make informed decisions that are good for our kids, but I feel like at 10 a child's say does play some role.

Now, I would never let a 10yr. who didn't 5 step tell me they didn't like riding in a booster and then allow them to go without, but if they fit in a booster (which we know at 10 is safe) then I do think that is to be considered :twocents:

 

[Mommytootoo]

She is perhaps smaller than average, sorry. She rides in a Nauti and is just about even with the top slots. Maybe a smaller torso if anything, for sure. The Nauti isn't very deep, and I just don't like it. Lots of plastic parts and flimsy-like.

So I am going to get the Frontier85 but the SICT version. This seat seems very solid, and maybe not perfect but the best and biggest for us.

Just found out how to register with help of my friends who love this site.

I will use any seat to the maximum of its limits as the new suggestions say. So she'll be harnessed until she outgrows. She gets a say in things but not car safety.

 

[Baylor]

Just curious, how does your 10 yr. old feel about harnessing? I know they are kids and we as adults need to make informed decisions that are good for our kids, but I feel like at 10 a child's say does play some role.

Now, I would never let a 10yr. who didn't 5 step tell me they didn't like riding in a booster and then allow them to go without, but if they fit in a booster (which we know at 10 is safe) then I do think that is to be considered :twocents:

This. I would not harness a 10 year old unless they were special needs and had an appropriate seat. At 10 a child needs to booster correctly and be able to have some responsibility for their own safety. I harnessed DS1until he outgrew the GN at 7. I thought I would automatically by a FR85 but I realized he was more than capable of boosterisi ng correctly and got him a Probooster with lots of protection around him. I would get a good booster with good body support and head wings that fit the child well.

Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org.

 

[jeminijad]

An average ten year old can suddenly hit puberty and become a very opinionated, hormonal, physical near-adult very quickly.

Just be very sure that you want to invest several hundred dollars in a short lived solution with an unknown improvement in safety.

 

[luckyclov]

The Britax Frontier 85 has the tallest harness top slots on the market, at 20". I may have missed it if you mentioned your child's stats (height specifically), but at 10-years old, I think that'd be...pretty much your only option, if at all. At least without venturing over into special needs seats.

Just for reference, however, my long torso'ed, 52", almost 9-year old has outgrown the Frontier 85. Actually, he outgrew it about 1/2 an inch and 6 or so months ago. He hasn't ridden in a harnessed seat since he was about 5 1/2 years old/48-50 lbs, though. He's mature enough to sit properly and stay positioned properly in a booster (he still rides in a highback booster - his choice) and, actually, I feel better with him in a booster vs. a harness due to his size and weight. I'd actually be fine with him a backless (with adequate head support and a good lap/shoulder belt fit, of course) at this point, but he prefers the highback.

My 7-year old (47.5", 58 lbs) still rides harnessed in a Frontier 85. She has about 1/2 inch, maybe a hair more, left before it's outgrown. She has some underlying issues which impact that decision. She will NOT stay positioned properly in a booster for longer then a few minutes. To be perfectly frank, we've been working REALLY hard on "training" and cues lately because I'd like her transitioned to a booster by Spring.

So, in short, I completely agree with this and feel it's important to toss out there again:

It is worth mentioning, however, that there is some info running around that argues it's very possible, even likely, that a booster for a child who sits correctly, is big enough and old enough, is safer than a harnessed seat for that same child. Why? Because in a 3 pt seatbelt with booster in an accident the upper body will lurch forward as one while in a harnessed seat only the head lurches forward creating massive strain on the neck. Again, harnesses are incredibly safe and important for kids who aren't ready to sit properly in a booster or not big enough to fit properly in a booster, but for those who are, it's a very real possibility.

 

[::er!ca::]

I am not a tech, but wanted to mention that I learned on here that the Frontier 85 requires a top tether over 65lbs but a lot of vehicles only allow the tether use up to 40 or 48 lbs so you would not be able to safely use the seat after your child weighed 65lbs. I believe the sict version of the seat doesn't have that restriction.

You're getting the weight limits of the lower LATCH anchors confused with the top tether anchor. The lower anchors have those weight limits, the only vehicle manufacturer (that I know of off the top of my head) that has a weight limit on the top tether anchor is Ford (and it's 60 pounds).

 

[Angela]

You're getting the weight limits of the lower LATCH anchors confused with the top tether anchor. The lower anchors have those weight limits, the only vehicle manufacturer (that I know of off the top of my head) that has a weight limit on the top tether anchor is Ford (and it's 60 pounds).

Actually, most vehicles also have top tether weight limits of 40/48lbs (for instance the Honda is 40lbs).

 

[luckyclov]

You're getting the weight limits of the lower LATCH anchors confused with the top tether anchor. The lower anchors have those weight limits, the only vehicle manufacturer (that I know of off the top of my head) that has a weight limit on the top tether anchor is Ford (and it's 60 pounds).

LATCH stands for Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren.

Vehicle stated LATCH weight limits are for both the lower anchors AND top tether anchors. Unfortunately, there's, generally, no separation of the two. It is what it is. But there are those (yes, I'm one) who choose to top tether beyond stated weight limits, strongly feeling the potential benefits outweigh the potential risks (for the top tether anchor ONLY, not lower anchors).

 

[Judi]

The 10 year old I watched was on the small side, and no longer fit in the FR85. He sits in a Roosevelt. He is Autistic and needed a 5 point for when he had melt downs.

 

[snowbird25ca]

She is perhaps smaller than average, sorry. She rides in a Nauti and is just about even with the top slots. Maybe a smaller torso if anything, for sure. The Nauti isn't very deep, and I just don't like it. Lots of plastic parts and flimsy-like.

So I am going to get the Frontier85 but the SICT version. This seat seems very solid, and maybe not perfect but the best and biggest for us.

Just found out how to register with help of my friends who love this site.

I will use any seat to the maximum of its limits as the new suggestions say. So she'll be harnessed until she outgrows. She gets a say in things but not car safety.

Thanks for registering.

The Nauti is actually a very solid seat and is steel reinforced. I'd guess it weighs just as much as the Frontier actually. With her being even with the top slots of the Nautilus, she likely will be using the 2nd highest harness slots in the Frontier.

I don't have anything else to add beyond what others have said, but I wanted to answer your question from the original post and bump the thread so others could see your further comments.

To answer your question, if I knew that I was going to be in a collision, I would have my kids restrained exactly the way I do every time we ride in the vehicle. My 7yr old 54'ish lb daughter in her Monterey, and my 5yr old 37lb son in his Nautilus or Frontier depending on the vehicle. I have no doubts that my kids ride in the way that is safest for them and wouldn't change a thing. FWIW, I trust the Nautilus just as much if not a bit more than the Frontier and I wouldn't choose one over the other for "that" trip.

I would however choose our bigger vehicle with the best crash test ratings. The vehicle is going to do the biggest amount of work in a collision and that's why crash test ratings were part of the decision making process in purchasing our vehicles. Our car is safe and gets good ratings, but our Outlook is an IIHS top pick and I have no doubt that it would fare better just due to it's size. And a safer vehicle equals safer occupants.

 

[Polola0628]

OP, have you researched neck loads?

 

[InternationalMama]

OP, have you researched neck loads?

:yeahthat:

I don't have a ten year old, but if I did (and they were developmentally on track) I would personally feel they were *safer* in a properly fitting booster than in a harnessed seat. I know it's debatable, but since you asked what other people would want for their 10 year old, a properly fitting booster is what I would want if I knew we were going to be in a crash.

And I agree with the PP who said they would want to focus on their car as the first line of defense as well.

 

[scatterbunny]

I won't discourage you from harnessing your 10yo in your primary vehicle if she truly fits in the seat as long as you've researched neck loading, but I would discourage you from moving that seat from vehicle to vehicle. That's when the chance of user error greatly increases. Also, at 10 years old, do you really want to be moving a harnessed seat into the vehicles of her friends, and telling the friend's parents that your 10yo needs to use this massive harnessed seat while her friends likely ride in nothing at all? Peer pressure and "what everyone else does" shouldn't ever trump safety, but I truly believe a properly used booster is absolutely safe for a developmentally average 10yo, and it's what I would choose for transporting her in situations like that. The top tether will be a must, and there's no way to guarantee that every vehicle she'll ride in will have a tether hook for her seat. I really think you need to reconsider a good highback booster for use in other vehicles, even if you choose the Frontier for your primary vehicle.

 

[Brigala]

I also feel it's important to make children feel good about car safety. Someday the child will need to be responsible for buckling her own seat belt, driving off, and refraining from texting at the wheel. If a 10 year old child has strong objection to using a safety device that has unproven benefits at her age and level of development, and perhaps gets teased and laughed at by her peers because of it, how will that affect her ability to stand up to peer pressure later when it is HER choice not to, say, get in a car with a friend who's been drinking? Is it empowering her to make responsible decisions, or is it giving her the impression that all the stuff Mom tells her is just Mom's anxiety talking and it isn't really unsafe and I refuse to be laughed at again...?

And the recommendations are to harness to the limits of her seat. Her current seat is a Nautilus. The recommendations are NOT to go out and buy the biggest harnessed seat on the market for every child. If she were under age 4 or 5 and outgrowing the Nautilus, that would be a different consideration.

NHTSA has the following recommendations for harnesses and boosters. They are the most conservative recommendations out there (far more conservative than AAP):

Keep your 4 to 7 year old children in FORWARD-FACING car seats with a harness until they reach the top height or weight limit allowed by your car seat's manufacturer.

Once they outgrow their forward-facing car seat with a harness, it's time to travel in a BOOSTER SEAT ... and still in the back seat.

Keep your 8 to 12 year old children in BOOSTER SEATS until they are big enough to fit in a seat belt properly.

(Source: http://www.nhtsa.gov/Safety/CPS )

 

[StillThankful]

Welcome to the board!

It seems like you've made up your mind to keep your 10 year old harnessed.

My 5y1m daughter is currently boosterd in a high back in DH's car.

Some people on here have allowed the child to ride in a booster for purposes of school pick ups.

I'm not sure what your situation is, but if you have other people for emergency reasons that need to pick up your daughter, a hbb will suit her great!

You wouldn't need to worry about proper seat installation, top tethering, harness tightening, etc.. and she gets to feel (like a pp stated) that she is also being a responsible tween and independent at the same time.

I assure you that the mamas on this board are some of the most passionate people I "know" when it comes to carseat safety. We would NEVER steer you in making a bad decision or choosing a less than safER option. Believe me....I've been a member on here since 2007 and if anything, they do the opposite--strive for the safEST option.

Seems like you acknowledge that there is no evidence showing that a 5 point harness is safER than a booster but insist that the omission of such data doesn't disprove that they are safer.

I assure you, that if there was so much of a tad of evidence that suggests that harnesses are safer for children over 5 and 40#, carseat manufacturers would jump on it since harnessed seats are so much more expensive than boosters--they are in the business of making a profit.

It's hard to prove something that just doesn't exist. We can't prove or disprove it. But we can look at what other do, such as in Sweden, who go from RFing to a booster. Why? Neck loads come to mind.

Well, I'm sure your child will be happy in her new seat. However, when it comes the time to booster her, please know that she'll be safe too.

 

[BabyKaykes]

:yeah that: (how do I make the yeah that with a smile instead of the frown options it gives me??)

take out the space...

 

[Mommytootoo]

If Britax sells a harnesed seat, I expect a child nearing 85 lbs. to safely ride in it as advertised, boy or girl, to the limit of the seat. I am frustrated (not at you awesome people, you bring up good points) but at Britax. Or maybe carseat testing agencies?

Surely there has been an 85 lb. dummy in it. What happened to neck load? How can we not know? When a similar child is in a wreck and their neck load is too high? I don't get it. I thought seats sold were supposed to be safe, and I am only trying to follow the company guidelines for weight, height.

I can booster her in it now or later, yes. I still want the seat. In fact, it's so tall a booster I imagine she can use it even after she 5 steps, as long as she meets the criteria. No reason to take away the shell, EPS foam, SICT cushions and head support to downgrade to just a seatbelt. She is on board with me here, don't worry. We've seen too many accidents.

 

[luckyclov]

Britax makes an 85 lb weight limit harnessed seat, yes. But my DD, who is 7 (and 47.5" tall), will outgrow that seat by *height* before she's 60 lbs. And she's 28th percentile for height and 72nd percentile for weight, just to make the example a little better to ingest.

Recaro makes a harnessed seat rated to 90 lbs, which my DD has already outgrown by height. Months ago.

While the weight limits are eye-catching and generous and suck many people in, you've got to very mindful of height limits as well. Unless otherwise permitted by the manufacturer (and I can only think of one manufacturer who does), allowing the harness to fall below the shoulders in a forward-facing seat can pose significant threat to a child's spinal cord in a crash. The harness has a different job to perform rear-facing vs. forward-facing.

A forward-facing seat is outgrown when the harness is, basically, *at* shoulder level (or when the tops of the child's ears are level with the top of the shell, but the harness aspect usually comes first). You do not want that harness to creep below the shoulders.

The Frontier 85 is, yes, the tallest highback booster on the market at this time.

 

[Mommytootoo]

Yes, of course we won't get to 85 lbs. But I expect it to be safe if a child were.
I except it to be safe for a 10-year-old who DOES fit with the harness above shoulders. 60 something lbs.

Does that make sense? If I put a 10-year-old who fits perfectly, as mine does, I don't expect in a crash to have a neck load problem. Was this not tested?
How could Britax make a seat that a lot of you feel is potentially unsafe due to neckload, and that you won't use past age 6 harnessed?

Surely it's tested? Neckload is important. I thought in testing head excursion and such were tested, too.
So, I'd want to Frontier85 SICT to fit any child within the range, and not compromise safety. Or...what good are company guidelines or what good is this seat? It does not say that at age 6 or so you should NOT use the harness. Maybe it should, but would Britax use my child as a crash dummy? Huh? So there is no reliable dummy that was used?