Vent A Smorgosbord of Bad Info Today!!!

[dingohate]

So BIL and SIL need a new car seat so I go to BRU to try out the TFR. It's not there so the sales lady recommends a Britax. I told her I didn't care for Britax's new gen. seats because of the lack of legroom for older toddlers. I told her I had one for my son and his legs were bent up significantly more than in his other seats. The sales lady then INSISTED that the seat was outgrown when the child's legs bent and touched the seat back of the vehicle. I corrected her misinformation and advised her that the seat was outgrown only by the 1" rule or the maximum weight/height had been reached according to individual manufacturers. She then went on to tell me how my child's legs could be broken in the event of a collision *ugh*.

So..... off to Sears we go to try and find the seat we wanted to try after a botched attempt at BRU since no one was available and the lady was so rude. The Sears lady comes out to the car with us and as I'm un-installing the Chicco base so I can try the TFR she gawks and snarls "where's your locking clip"? I replied that I don't need one because a.) the belt is routed under the built in lock off and b.) I have an ALR seatbelt and not the ELR seatbelt she must be confusing it with. So she ROLLS her stupid little eyes and says "but you need the little metal piece when you use a seatbelt" to which I replied that I had read and understood the manufacturer's instructions and the seat is installed correctly. More eye rolling and she said 'I'm sure you did' in a YEAH LADY kind of way.

My SIL was waiting inside with my nephew while me and BIL finished up re-installing the Chicco base and the lady came in huffing about me not installing their car seat correctly and SIL overhears. WTF????

Bad day for bad information I guess! My head hurts LOL

 

[Emi's Mommy]

I hate the Sears sales people when it comes to car seats. I had a whole bunch all lined up on the floor testing the fit and they tried to sell me on on an Evenflo Chase. Ummm, no. And she just hovered around me glaring as I adjusted harnesses and took off infant padding. Go away! You are no help to me.

 

[icnee]

They are so annoying, I remember needing a convertable seat and the sale guy was fallowing me around kept telling me all the seats harnessed to 100lbs uh no they dont but he kept at it so I had to complain to get him to go away and so some one els came over, this one was much nicer and she had alot of questions for me on EFR.

It really sucks when peopl give out suck bad info and scary for those who dont know that they are wrong.

 

[selinajean]

:thumbsdown:

I am frustrated for you.


Do you think that you would be up to contacting the store managers at both places to let them know that the employees are giving out incorrect info? This is not bubble bath that they are selling and advising on; it is safety equipment. If they don't know what they are talking about they really should just stay quiet and defer to someone else who is better suited to help.

 

[mommycat]

Do you think that you would be up to contacting the store managers at both places to let them know that the employees are giving out incorrect info? This is not bubble bath that they are selling and advising on; it is safety equipment. If they don't know what they are talking about they really should just stay quiet and defer to someone else who is better suited to help.

Yes, this. I would let them know that not only were these sales people giving out incorrect information, they were insisting repeatedly on incorrect information, and as far as the Sears employee, she was just plain rude and unprofessional. You can try to get across what you believe is important info without the attitude. :thumbsdown:

 

[dingohate]

BRU email


Hi Debbie and Rick,

I was in this afternoon hoping to try out a True Fit Rebound for my nephew. I was told by Jennifer (tall lady, blond curly hair?) that you didn’t carry the TrueFIt Rebound and another clerk recommended the Britax. I mentioned to her I wasn’t crazy about the Britax models because my 2.5 year old has limited leg room when rear-facing in the seat. Jennifer then told me that I had to be careful because the child seat was not safe if the child’s legs were bent and against the seat. I corrected her misinformation by telling her the child’s seat is only outgrown when the maximum weight/height limit of the seat (according to the manufacturer) had been reached OR if the child’s head came within 1” of the top of the seat’s shell in the rear facing position. She became defensive and then she told me that St John’s Ambulance certified them as Techs at a private course and that they were given this information by SJA. She kept insisting that in the event of an accident the child could break their legs and that once the feet were touching the seat back, the child seat was outgrown.

I am becoming certified to do volunteer seat checks Feb 10th and 11th and I knew that this was incorrect information because of my interest in child passenger safety, but think of how many parents might take her advice and prematurely turn a child who otherwise would be 500% safer in a collision had they been rear facing to the TRUE limit of their seat? I understand that ultimately it’s each individuals responsibility to ensure that the manufacturer’s instructions are followed correctly but unfortunately that doesn’t always happen. This is why it’s important to have knowledgeable employees that give out correct information, especially when asserting themselves as SJA Certified.

I’ve copied and pasted an excerpt from www.cpssafety.com as well as provided the link so that Jennifer might brush up her “Tech” info so that she doesn’t give out potentially dangerous information to other parents.

Excerpt from: http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/stayrearfacing.aspx

Won't my child be uncomfortable? Where do his legs go?

Many parents have the misconception that children are uncomfortable or at risk for leg injury by having their legs up on the vehicle seat or bent when kept rear-facing. These concepts are completely incorrect. First, children are more flexible than adults so what we perceive as uncomfortable is not for children. Think about how your child sits in everyday play. Do they sit with their legs straight out in front of them? When they sit on the couch, do they purposely sit so their legs dangle out over the edge? No. In real, everyday life, toddlers and preschoolers CHOSE to sit with their legs folded up - that IS comfort to them.

Second, there is not a single documented case of children's legs, hips, etc. breaking or being injured in a crash due to longer rear-facing. There are plenty of cases of head and neck injury in forward-facing children that could have been prevented if the child had remained rear-facing. However, even if a leg or hip were broken or injured, it can be fixed. A damaged spinal cord (from forward-facing too soon) cannot be repaired and subjects the child to lifelong disability or death.

Kind regards,

AL

 

[dingohate]

I sent a similar email to Sears (which bounced back because it is only internal email) Soooooooooooo I phoned the manager of the baby department to tell her what had happened and ask for the general email addy of customer service. The B#!^* totally brushed me off. She was insisting that they aren't trained professionals and that the best thing to do was to go to the OPP to have your seat installed. She kept reiterating that they are not professionals/qualified to give such advice so I got really upset with her. I told her if they're not qualified then they should be QUIET. I'd respect an "I'm not sure/qualified" much more than a flippant attitude backed by incorrect information. The Sears manager had me fuming!!!

And that's FINE about them not being qualified in the first place, but she didn't address this girl's ATTITUDE and TOTALLY UNPROFESSIONAL behavior AT ALL. I will never buy a seat at Sears, EVER.

 

[ElaynesMom]

I sent a similar email to Sears (which bounced back because it is only internal email) Soooooooooooo I phoned the manager of the baby department to tell her what had happened and ask for the general email addy of customer service. The B#!^* totally brushed me off. She was insisting that they aren't trained professionals and that the best thing to do was to go to the OPP to have your seat installed. She kept reiterating that they are not professionals/qualified to give such advice so I got really upset with her. I told her if they're not qualified then they should be QUIET. I'd respect an "I'm not sure/qualified" much more than a flippant attitude backed by incorrect information. The Sears manager had me fuming!!!

And that's FINE about them not being qualified in the first place, but she didn't address this girl's ATTITUDE and TOTALLY UNPROFESSIONAL behavior AT ALL. I will never buy a seat at Sears, EVER.

If you wanted to you could always call head office and let them know both about the employee who gave incorrect information, and the manager that blew you off. I would just explain that you understand they aren't trained professionals, but if that is the case they should not be giving out potentially dangerous information about such an important piece of safety equipment, and that since the manager seemed very unconcerned, you wanted to make sure this was addressed properly so misinformation doesn't continue to get passed on.

 

[mommycat]

What she said.

That email is very detailed, that's good. Hope they do a refresher course with their staff. Thank you for taking the time to follow up on these incidents.

 

[selinajean]

Your email is very calm, detailed and informative. Your information is backed by a reputable source. Good job! :thumbsup:

As far as Sears goes, I agree that you should go above the manager's head. Call the central customer service number. I had a car seat issue with Cdn Tire a couple of years ago where the manager thought I was loopy for telling him that car seats expire. He insisted that they don't, so selling old models was fine. I called the main c/s number and they gave me the number for the store owner. I know it isn't the same business, but there is always someone higher up on the totem pole.

 

[Twinklefae]

Wow, that's awful. I've always had really good luck with sales staff. Either they stick to the 'we are not trained, and I don't know' line (which is fine - some also will refer parents to the manual :thumbsup: ) or they are eager and interested and will listen when I say I'm a tech.

I would keep complaining up the line at Sears - they need to know that their people are A) being unsafe and B) being rude. They'll likely care more about B.

 

[hipmaman]

Don't talk about safety because they don't necessary care, but talk 'their' language - tell them they can be LIABLE for giving out wrongful information and can be NEGLIGENT for not acting on it (ie. the Sears manager)

 

[dingohate]

I did end up calling Sears' national customer service number to complain. We'll see what happens I guess! I haven't heard back from Babies R Us and I got a "read receipt" yesterday .... we'll see! Either way, I did my part!

 

[snowbird25ca]

I'm curious to see what comes out of the BRU email. You know the problem is, that this girl may have taken the SJA course, and she may have been taught incorrect information.

Some instructors still harbor their own incorrect information and pass this on to new technicians unfortunately.

What really saddens me about this though is that it will be more fuel to the fire to have employees not get proper training. They already worry about having techs on staff for fear of liability and last I heard they were no longer going to put staff through the SJA program. The problem is, that most people who go through the SJA curriculum come out better able to help parents and with a better focus on car seats. And employees give out info whether they're trained or not, so the only real way to address the problem is proper training...

Sorry to get on my own soapbox here, I feel like this problem goes all the way back to the original instructor who trained the employees there and that's what really irks me. Your complaint is very justified, it just bugs me because I know it will have fall out Canada wide all because of an instructor who wasn't up to date.

I think I need a job with BRU training employees Canada wide. They can fly me from city to city twice a year and I'll gladly keep employees up to speed.

 

[ninejr]

I think I need a job with BRU training employees Canada wide. They can fly me from city to city twice a year and I'll gladly keep employees up to speed.

You would probably do a really good job awhile back we went into your store to try some different seats to see if they would fit in our little car and the girl who walked out to the car with us went on and on about this tech that works at their store and how she has learned so much from her (you). She didn't give any bad information and was very excited about car seats :thumbsup:

 

[hipmaman]

I think I need a job with BRU training employees Canada wide. They can fly me from city to city twice a year and I'll gladly keep employees up to speed.

Why don't you put together that proposal and pitch to BRU Canada?

 

[selinajean]

Trudy, have you proposed that? They would be stupid to turn it down.

 

[Shanora]

I agree with Tam and Selina, Trudy. Pitch it to the company. Hey, they already have you as a staff member, and I'm sure that they know your a tech. They've seen the sales that come out of that store because of you, its only in their best interest to move forward with you. Depending on how you propose the idea, they might not even have to pay you more to do the courses (except for cost of supplies) since you ARE already a staff member.....

 

[dingohate]

Some instructors still harbor their own incorrect information and pass this on to new technicians unfortunately.

I wonder if I should send that complaint to SJA? Now that you mention it another time at Sears I was told the same thing, and they said SJA were the ones that told them that. I even remember getting that info at a car seat check in 2008 BY a tech, so I can definitely see your point.

 

[snowbird25ca]

Trudy, have you proposed that? They would be stupid to turn it down.

You know, I actually face some barriers at work. I have offered to go through TRU own in-house training with employees, but they have no interest in it.

I've never figured it out, because I'm an approachable person and I certainly don't think I come off as know-it-all - I actually think I'm pretty laid back overall, but they've always seemed both appreciative and intimidated by my level of knowledge and contacts.

I know one thing, if I was to propose something, it wouldn't actually be to certify them as techs. I would do up a special course specific for retailers. (This is actually something I have been considering based on local contacts - it wouldn't certify them as techs, would just equip them with the knowledge to help a parent select the best seat for their child.)

A BRU employee doesn't need to know how to lock a seatbelt or use a locking clip. They don't need to understand in depth crash dynamics either - they need to understand age/stage including best practice and common concerns, basic principles surrounding harness height and tightness, and belt paths. That's really all they need to know. And every employee is capable of having that level of information.

But somehow I doubt they have it in their budget to have someone travel cross country semi-annually or even annually. Granted it's possible that the resistance I encounter at my store is just my store. :shrug-shoulders:

I wonder if I should send that complaint to SJA? Now that you mention it another time at Sears I was told the same thing, and they said SJA were the ones that told them that. I even remember getting that info at a car seat check in 2008 BY a tech, so I can definitely see your point.

You could theoretically send a complaint to SJA, but without knowing who instructed them, it likely wouldn't do any good. There is some background work being done to try and get a greater level of standardization in instructor knowledge, but at present there are challenges - and you'd get nowhere without knowing the instructors name...

But hey, doesn't hurt to complain. Maybe it would result in a provincial email or something? (I can be optimistic, right?)