Interesting thoughts. I think it's an interesting discussion which helps to put some more focus on rear facing longer than currently.
Snowbird25ca raises some good points and questions as usual.:thumbsup: It's true that many families here have rf seats installed in front seat due to the many benefits and equal or greater safety compared to rear seat (Only rf and airbag disabled of course. No booster or older kids etc). Most rf seats were once upon designed to lean against the dashboard since if offers great safety. But most can also be leaned against front seat or used with a foot prop. Some seats, like the very sturdy Two-Way is tested without foot prop or leaning against a seat and still pass tough testing.
The people I speak to in the industry, some Canadians and Americans among them, disagree with the opinion of Swedish rf seats not passing US testing. FVMSS and ECE R44 are very similar, with some differences, but both are tough standards. It's possible that some minor adjustments would be made but it would not be a big deal.
Interestingly, and off topic, is that the FMVSS standard is a "self certification" standard. Which means for example Snowbird could test seats according to FMVSS and if they pass she could sell them in US and call her standard "Snowbird".
So combine the risk of over-rotation which the manufacturers themselves seem to have concerns about in the absence of a strong bracing surface
There is no concern for this. The recommendation is to install the seat wherever you like in the car. It's often said that the front seat is a good and safe place for your child (only rf and airbag disabled) but it's not at all a recommendation to use the front seat.
It led me to the belief that without a hard bracing surface, the seats would over-rotate with a bigger child which increases risk of impacting the vehicle interior and too much force on the child's neck and shoulders.
We can all speculate in what could happen but most Swedish seats are approved with foot prop or leaning against a seat. Your description sounds like fiction to me. Two-WAy is for example tested without bracing or foot prop:
"The Two Way is designed to be a monocoque, which means that it can entirely carry the loads that can occur in a crash without any support forward. That brings us back to the question of why it's better for the seat to be fixed at the foot end in both slots."
I've seen nothing that confirms what you're saying and the seats are tested to 55 lbs. They put some LARGE dummies in those seats
) They would not be approved if what you're saying is true. If a seats over rotates or moved down and forward during a collision it will not be approved.
On a side note, some of the US seats are very similar to the Swedish ones. BOulevard has the same base as Hi-Way for example. I know the guy who designed the seat, he ripped off the cover the other day and showed me. Talk about car seat porn
Add to that that North American vehicles aren't being tested with swedish seats, or with swedish style tethering the way that it's directed, and we don't know how the swedish car seats even interact with our vehicles in a collision.
There is nothing magical with the Swedish cars. We drive the same cars as Canadians or Americans do. You have some more SUV's but other than that differences in vehicles are small. Most Swedes tether or anchor their seats just as you would in your car, without any special equipment or "d-rings" and it works very well.
And by the time you factor in the higher likelihood of misuse with a foreign seat, it could be a measurable increase in risk by using an illegal seat for a child who is big enough and old enough to forward face.
Many people like the Swedish seats for the rf capability to 55 lbs but I've found that many also love the easy installation. Most of the seats can be installed in any vehicle without any special equipment. All seats come with English manuals and it's frankly difficult to install a seat incorrectly. My customers sometimes refer to the installation as being
"moron proof" which I think is a funny way of looking at it. It was mentioned before that the installation would be a problem and more mistakes would be made. My experience is the opposite, you really have to try hard not being able to fasten a seat belt and anchor two straps to the ground.
So combine the risk of over-rotation which the manufacturers themselves seem to have concerns about in the absence of a strong bracing surface,
Again, this is your opinion but what you're saying is not a concern of manufacturers as you describe. Seats are tested leaning against other seats or with foot prop, with large dummies, and over rotation is not a problem.
More and more North American vehicles are using advanced airbag sensors which don't allow carseats to touch the vehicle seat in front, effectively meaning that seats can't be braced in them.
I have gotten this question before and triple checked it. I have spoken to people in the industry about it. Some airbags today vary force depending on weight of person in the seat for example. The additional forces in a collision on the front seat/passenger caused by a rf Swedish seat is insignificant. It's not a worry. I'm assuming a correct install but that's obvious.
Considering that probably the biggest factor in how a rf'ing seat performs in a collision is how far down it rotates, and that North American rf'ing seats pass standards with no bracing surface,
Some seats are tested without a bracing surface, the foot prop (or front seat) is there to gtive the seat additional stability. And again, the over rotation you talk about in the Swedish seat is something that researchers here aren't seeing. If it was the case the seats would never be approved.
Would I rf longer than 35? Sure, I rf at least until age 4. I would do it regardless of place of residence. All kids are different but I really like having the option to rf as long as I want (within limits). Many outgrow seats by height first but I also run into many kids who are 2 years and 35 lbs. My best friends are from Colombia but have lived in US, the brought their US seats with them. They have four kids, one of them is built like linebacker and was 36 lbs before 2 years of age. He's not fat, he's just solid. I'm running into a lot more kids like this today. I know that many ff before age two, I like rf longer than that since it's far safer. My friends could not have had their son Simon rf without the 55 lbs limit.
I would personally not ff before age 4 but as you know this is a personal decision. During my 6 years here I've been brainwashed by the Swedes so my opinions are a little different
