Quesiton about Versa-Tether

[papa smurf]

Hello everyone, just registered, dad of 14 month old little man.
Recently we upgraded from baby seat to Britax Marathon but getting versa tether to be tight is a big headache.

We are installing it in our X5, forward facing, (son is 27-28 lbs) Is it supposed to be tight, pulling the seat back? Because it is really frustrating because the rear seat is pretty high and when we buckle the latch the tether adjustment buckle gets covered in the back, it makes it impossible to pull it tight. Especially when there is slack in one side and the other side it tight, it is also difficult to pull the other side to even them out. Is it OK for to have some slack?
Otherwise, it is going to be impossible to remove and reinstall as needed.

Thanks in advance.

 

[wendytthomas]

You simply use your hand to pull the slack side tight, then pull the tail tight.

How often are you reinstalling the seat? Maybe a second seat would be in order.

And is there a reason he's forward facing? It goes against every recommendation out there. Since 2002 the AAP has recommended that children face the rear to the limits of the convertible carseat, and in 2011 they finally changed the official policy from 1 and 20 to *at least* two years for rear facing, preferably much longer. A child his age is up to 500% less safe than if he was rear facing.

http://carseatblog.com/5168/why-rear-facing-is-better-your-rf-link-guide/

Check out the video at the bottom of that page. It shows quite well why it's dangerous for him to forward face at his age.

Also, are you installing him in the middle or side? The center of your car doesn't allow for LATCH.

What type of Marathon is it? Is it an older version, or the new Marathon 70?

Wendy

 

[papa smurf]

Thank you Wendy, surprisingly I was searching for other topics and I was already familiar with your signature image, and here is your reply..

It is brand new Marathon 70. I am not planning to move it in/out frequently, only in cases when we have people over or out to lunch with coworkers, etc.. So it is not being moved from car to car, would only be moved out to make room, and very rarely..

The reason we are thinking of putting him forward facing is because the last 4 months have been hell for us, one night he suddenly decided that he doesn't want to get in his rear facing Graco 30 baby seat. We tried everything, nothing worked. So we are hoping forward facing and larger seat will be easier for him to get used to it again. Maybe we can flip it back to rear facing once we make him get used to it again. That video is scary!

X5 center seat has a folding armrest, by unfolding it you can run the tether through the opening they made specifically for the tether strap. There is also a center tether anchor as well. I assume older X5's center folding arm-rest did not have the hole to run the tether strap through. Therefore may not have been ideal to install it in the center position since the headrest does not retract either. There is no additional LATCH in the center seat, but you can comfortably latch them on outer rings of the two side positions.

Maybe these can be useful for other X5 owners:

Regarding the buckle, I was hoping that I could move the buckle and tighten it in the back side on cargo area, much more comfortably, but it looks like Marathon actually "hard-wired" the buckle to the seat, and you can only adjust the belt, but cannot move the buckle away from the seat. so it is really awkward because as you tighten the belt, the buckle starts getting squeezed between the marathon and car's seat. So after a certain point you cannot really pull it anymore but there is still slack.

We ended up installing it behind the passenger side, but still, the problem is there.

 

[papa smurf]

Sorry, I meant "inside rings" not outer rings. (cannot edit)

 

[wendytthomas]

Ok, several things. I know you can comfortably use the outer lower anchors. BMW does NOT allow that. That's why I said there's no center LATCH there. You must use the seatbelt. Either BMW tested that and it failed, or they didn't test it, in which case your child is the crash test dummy. Just use the seatbelt if you install in the center.

Second, yes, kids will stop fighting the carseat when they go forward facing. Initially, at least. It's new. But he didn't hate rear facing. He never knew forward facing. He couldn't have wanted it. He hated being restrained. He'll go back stiff, legs straight forward facing, too. I carry my daughter often to the car in a seated position and put her in, then put my elbow between her legs so she can't arch. Or I'll tickle her to get her to bend and then strong arm her to stay bent while I buckle her. It's a phase that most kids go through. We just deal with it and keep our kids rear facing. He'll go through it again later. Promise.

To put it another way; you as a parent are in charge of his safety. If he found a carving knife on the countertop, and you took it away, would you hand it back because he was frustrated and wanted it? No. You'd tell him you're sorry he's upset, but tough. Same thing in the car. "Sorry little dude. You don't like being restrained. It's my job as a parent to make sure you're as safe as can be, since car crashes are the number one killer of kids 1-14 year old. You don't understand, but I will do what I can, even when you're upset with me, to make sure you're safe."

So what I would do would be to turn him back rear facing right away, get techniques in place for dealing with his lack of desire to be restrained, install it with the seatbelt in the middle, and tether it to a front seat leg.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2upADev-UrM

That will solve all of your tether and installation issues, and keep him safe. I tell people it's my two year old's job to find new and exciting ways to try to kill herself. It's my job to keep her safe. She has never forward faced, even when she's been frustrated at being restrained. And she has. As did my older daughter. Oh well. Tough.

Wendy

 

[papa smurf]

I see, I know what you mean.. But ideally all four rings should be able to carry the same load spread among them, in pairs. So if they believe the two rings (one from each pair) is not safe, I don't see what could be making them less secure then latching on to the pair itself. The rule is a rule, I will keep him in side position, but just trying to figure out what could be the problem with using them.

You are right, they still provide the center rear anchor in case we use one with Latch and one with seatbelt, which is just as safe as Latch, only less convenient.

We will heed your warning and we will try to get him used to it as rear facing and tether the seat to the base of front seat, but what is the reason for tether on rear facing seat? I can understand that it is holding it in place with forward facing when a frontal collision occurs.. When it is rear facing, is it a protection from rear end collisions? Possibly when our vehicle is stationary someone hits us from rear without braking? I guess..

I need to find something to keep him occupied, maybe a Playbook or Kindle Fire..

 

[wendytthomas]

I see, I know what you mean.. But ideally all four rings should be able to carry the same load spread among them, in pairs. So if they believe the two rings (one from each pair) is not safe, I don't see what could be making them less secure then latching on to the pair itself. The rule is a rule, I will keep him in side position, but just trying to figure out what could be the problem with using them.

The issue is that each pair is reinforced to the other. The two in the middle don't touch each other.

That's a LATCH set we literally pulled out of a Toyota one day. LATCH is standardized, so your BMW's should be quite similar. This was the passenger side LATCH. It should have been attached to the car. The driver's side would have a similar system. But the center has half of each outer one. They're not connected to each other, they have no support between them, and they're at an angle which BMW may not find works at all.

You are right, they still provide the center rear anchor in case we use one with Latch and one with seatbelt, which is just as safe as Latch, only less convenient.

And LATCH has limits. BMW doesn't state a LATCH limit, so that means at 40 pounds you must switch to a seatbelt installation no matter where in your backseat you're installing the seat. So yes, there are three top tethers so you can install three carseats back there.

We will heed your warning and we will try to get him used to it as rear facing and tether the seat to the base of front seat, but what is the reason for tether on rear facing seat? I can understand that it is holding it in place with forward facing when a frontal collision occurs.. When it is rear facing, is it a protection from rear end collisions? Possibly when our vehicle is stationary someone hits us from rear without braking? I guess..

Possibly, but severe rear crashes account for 4% of all crashes. What Britax says about their rear tethering is that it's an anti-rebound item. Or rather, a rebound reducer. The child will still rebound, but not as much. It's part of what you get for when you buy a Britax.

I need to find something to keep him occupied, maybe a Playbook or Kindle Fire..

iPhones have worked well for us, or an iPad. We might be getting a Kindle FIre as well. There are plenty of toddler appropriate apps.

But why would you think he's less entertained rear facing? He has just as many windows to look out of (two side, one big back, and your little trunk windows) when he's rear facing. He has the cars behind him to look at. Scenery to the sides. A lot of discomfort with rear facing is actually not on the part of the child. It's a projection from the parent. You'd rather look where you're going, so you assume he's going to be bored rear facing. He's got plenty to look at and see and do, just like he will when he's forward facing. My two year old is forever pointing things out to me.

Wendy

 

[papa smurf]

Thanks again Wendy. With the rear facing it feels like he is more trapped in a smaller area with his leg movement being limited with the seat's back. I mean we can't even get him to sit in his once favorite high chair, and he just sits on our lap. We will try, hopefully we won't scar him for life. Method would probably be trying it every day when I got home and taking him for a short ride every single day...But I am afraid he will stop looking forward to my arrival (which is something he loves, seeing me walk through the door), now he might associate it as "the 'terrible' car-seat nightmare is home.. Hide!"

I don't have an iphone and considering cheapest iPod costs $200, I would prefer a full size tablet for same price, at least I can play with it too.

 

[Ninetales]

Everything Wendy says is exactly right.

And actually, a common complaint of verbal FFing children is that their legs fall asleep. They are too short to reach the floor, so they dangle and get numb. While RFing, the legs have support. And kids are very flexible, way more so than adults. Ever see a kid sitting on the floor with their legs all bent beneath them? Or during a messy diaper change when their feet end up by their ears without a complaint? I definitely can't do that!

My 20 month old is a big girl - 34 inches tall last month, and she just frogs her kegs when she rides in her seat. Sometimes she gets mad and fights going in, but it's because she doesn't want to be restrained, or she doesn't want to go, or she's just in a bad mood. It's not about FF or RF, she doesn't know anything else.

You'll be fine, and he won't hate you. Nit for this anyway. We parents will give our kids plenty of reason to hate us but their safety is paramount.

 

[Athena]

You've already received some great responses.

(I'm not a tech, but) The one thing I did not see mentioned that I thought might be helpful was that, in my experience, toddlers can really dislike the 45 degree recline of an infant seat rear facing. Have you tried him rear facing at the 30 degree angle allowed by your new Britax convertible? (This helped us with DD2 at about this age.) So it could help a lot ... or based on what you said about his high chair, he may just be in that I'm a toddler now and am going to test you phase.

I think we all start out with a lot of preconceived ideas about rear facing. We don't bend like those little ones do, so it looks uncomfortable to us. However, after observing my kids riding rear and forward facing, I have concluded they were more comfortable rear facing, when they have built in leg support and are somewhat reclined for better sleeping (without the risk of their head falling forward). I recently had to turn my 3 yo forward facing because she reached the seat's limit , but she made it to 40" in her Britax convertible and, although her legs were up on the back of the seat or crossed, she was still comfortable (and old enough to tell me so ).

Good luck! FWIW, he'll probably get over this soon ... and move onto the next challenge.

 

[Athena]

I tell people it's my two year old's job to find new and exciting ways to try to kill herself.

:yeahthatlove:
Wendy, I LOVE this! So true!

 

[papa smurf]

Thanks for all the responses, we will certainly switch it back to rear facing and will "fight" with him as it seems to be the only way to get him to do this.

Sometimes he can get really hysterical for some reason, looks like he is ready to just break into pieces to get away and then re-constructure himself once he is out. Similar situation we face every single day, multiple times at diaper change sessions. I envy those with kids that allow them to change the diaper by just laying back and enjoying themselves. I have no clue why ours hate every second that he cannot move freely. Whether that's eating, diaper changes, or even sleeping. He stopped sitting in his bouncer the moment he started crawling, and he used to LOVE that bouncer.

Thanks again for all the replies, and we will keep you posted with developments.

 

[wendytthomas]

Please do.

For the record, mine wiggled everywhere when it was time for diaper changes (thank goodness we don't have those anymore!), and my two AND nine year olds cannot go a meal without jumping up from the table and running around. So I don't put my two year old in a strapped seat for dinner. She sits in a booster. At a restaurant we don't get anything for her, she stands in the booth or chair. The only thing she is strapped into is the carseat (and I guess a stroller, though we rarely use one), and that is completely and utterly non negotiable. But sure, she can bounce around at dinner. As long as she eats and doesn't bug anyone, what do I care?

Wendy

 

[papa smurf]

Well, when they are young, it is a choking hazard to walk around (and by walk, it is running around) with food in his mouth. We try to give him smaller bites but that means coming back and asking for more because he knows that's a smaller bite than he would normally get. He started using fork to feed himself, but then we have another problem, running around with the fork in his hand.

 

[MommyShannon]

Most kids just hate being restrained. I am not a tech and did FF my older kids too early before learning the risks. My now 20 month old is still RF. We had plenty of car seat battles with them FF as we do RF with our youngest one now. Mine definitely got tired of the cramped bucket seat and were happier for a roomier seat at whichever age though still RF. Diaper changes are hit or miss as far as struggles. If two of you are going, one can sit in back with him. That helps more than anything honestly. There's no reason both adults have to sit in front. On long trips my kids reach the point where nothing helps besides a good game of peek a boo with DH or me in the back.

 

[papa smurf]

Hi Sharon,
Mommy sits in the rear with my son all the time, we have never left him alone back there, even when we were sure he would be sleeping through the whole trip.

 

[todzwife]

I don't know if this is the case with your LO but I find that if I sit in the back, DD2 (19 months) is actually WORSE because I'm sitting RIGHT THERE and "gosh darn it mommy-you're RIGHT THERE, can't you take me OUT?" She'll yell "out out out out". But if I'm in the drivers seat or front passenger position, she doesn't pitch such a fit. Yes she still fusses, and sometimes screams but overall she does better when I'm not right next to her.

Things we've tried that work:
Turning on music. Anything with a good beat.
Opening the window next to her- then closing it. Then opening the other window. Then closing it. Of course when it'a -10, that's not an option but during the summer, it distracts her enough that she stops.
Toys. Soft books, a soft mirror that she can see herself in.

We're going to be getting a DVD player so she can watch Elmo, or Yo Gabba Gabba or baby signing time. She doesn't watch a lot of TV at home, so it's a special treat when we travel. Even RFing kids can watch a show if you get one that hooks to the headrest.

Of course, there are kids (like my first daughter) who hate the car no.matter.what and will scream until they puke. If that's the case, you have my sympathies.

 

[papa smurf]

Of course, there are kids (like my first daughter) who hate the car no.matter.what and will scream until they puke. If that's the case, you have my sympathies.

Ouch.
Was your first daughter ever OK in the car or was she always fussy. The thing is ours was fine until recently, then one day he decided "no thanks, I'll walk". I mean what's the limit? Is the puking the border line? Should we let him cry until he pukes? In most cases we can tell that he is being fussy because he doesn't shed a tear, in other cases, he doesn't cry with tears but you can tell he is uncomfortable or concerned about something. But other cases, let's say someone he loves leaves home, or when he hurts his finger, or when he gets startled, you can see it in his face, and tears start coming down.

So, I don't know, we will try it, and then try it again, then again. I heard that when he cries and you just pick him up even if that's after 5-10 minutes, it ruins the whole session, so next time he cries more. We have to find something really special. He loves watching music videos and he has a few favorites, I guess the only thing is a tablet or something where he can watch it.. But think about it, there are people who can't afford that, there must be a way.

 

[wendytthomas]

Most of us just deal with it, turn up the music, and limit driving if there's really nothing that will calm them. We don't have superhuman kids, just a huge desire to keep them safe, no matter what, and very much despite themselves.

Fourteen months is a hard age. Separation anxiety, molars, knowledge and experience are exploding, and yet communication is lagging. If you don't do sign language with him, that may be a great way to get around the lapses in communication. But even with signing, it's just a rough time. When it's great it's great, but when it's bad, it's BAD. Luckily, kids change so much week by week and month by month. So it will change again.

Wendy

 

[jourdysmom]

I guess the only thing is a tablet or something where he can watch it.. But think about it, there are people who can't afford that, there must be a way.

We just learn to live with it... They sit in their seats to be safe. No questions asked. RF til they outgrow the seat, FF til they outgrow the seat, Booster til its outgrown. etc etc etc... They learn to like it, or get over it. I learned to ignore the word "MOM" in the car really fast... Oh and screaming? I have no idea what you are talking about...what is screaming??? the louder they scream, the louder the music goes. They learned really fast that I don't play their "game"... I am the adult, I am in charge.