need advice on new car seat and installation

[scuby20]

hello all,

Well we are currently living in Germany due to the military saying we had to relocate here lol. It's been an adventure getting here, that is for sure lol. So I have some new questions.

first - car seat. My just turned 4 year old daughter who is VERY long torso, 38lbs is riding FF'ing (just turned ff 6 months ago) in a complete Air (the one with wings). She is on the top harness slot and has about an inch and a half until her shoulders are AT the harness (not below). So, I was at the BX (base exchange, our store on base) and they had a high back booster, that had a 5 point harness, but said it would also work when she is ready to use the seatbelt (I want to keep her in 5 point for as long as possible, she is a wiggler). When is it ok to put them in a high back booster, even if it has a 5point harness? Is it ok now, since she is FF'ing?
My son who is 32lbs and will be 2 at the end of the month (may) is still RF'ing in a radian (the one with wings, with 40lb rf'ing limit). He is NOT tall so I have no worries other than weight with him for a while. When he reaches his 40lb limit, I'll FF him in the radian and he'll still probably be ok.
My daughter is tall, and it's all in the torso, so we are always having issues, because she already grew out of the britax and radian...now is in the air complete, and doesn't look like she has much time left in that lol.
My husband is also going to get a second vehicle and we were wondering if a high back booster with 5 point harness would be ok to get for his vehicle.

Now for my next question. - Our 2nd vehicle. We are in germany, trying to find a second vehicle. Most are European specs, and we are looking anywhere from a 1998- current year for a car. He found an audi year 2000, really nice. He tried to install one of the kids car seats, and since it didn't have latch, he used the seatbelt and he said it wouldn't stay tight. I told him that wasn't a huge deal ( I don't think) because if I used a locking clip, then it would (right???)....BUT, FF'ing carseats have to be teathered (right?), adn there was no place to teather them, as this was a sedan and you couldn't go behind the vehicle like you can in an SUV, van, or station wagon......I know that you can get a tether thing retrofitted on a vehicle in the US, but not sure how in the heck to do it here in Germany. anyone have any suggestions about the locking of the seat belts and the teather? along with my car seat questions.

Sorry for so many questions, and thank you for the help

 

[ctbcleveland]

A five point harness that converts to a booster is called a combination seat. Unforunately, not all combination seats are created equal. Many have short harness heights and low top slots, making it necessary to move into the booster very early.

The three best choices for combination seats are the Evenflo Maestro, the Graco Nautilus, and the Britax Frontier. I've listed them in order of cheapest to most expensive.

The Maestro is only $70.00, but doesn't become a very tall booster, which could be a problem for your DD. However, at that price, a high back booster could be purchased, and you'd still spend less than you would on the frontier or the Nautilus.

She is fine to use a combination seat at any time. I'd prefer her to be in a harness at least until 4 AND 40 lbs, which she is still shy of. However, especially if she is wiggly, you are probably looking at at least a couple more years (maybe 6?) still using the harness. It is entirely based on maturity. The booster and seatbelt can't do their job if the child doesn't sit properly.

I can't answer your other questions about vehicles. That is outside my expertise.

Some of the other military families may be able to chime in regarding the best way to purchase U.S. seats and ship them there.

 

[scuby20]

Thank you so much. Getting any of those car seats are easy, as most places ship to APO addresses, and I have a lot of people coming over here visitng all the time who can bring one if I can't get what I want here.....my problem is not having anything to teather it to on some of the cars we have looked at for my husband's car (we are looking for a second car for him).

As for the harness, I definatly want her to be in a harness for a while longer. She is a wiggly child and would NEVER sit still in a regular booster for sure lol...she will need to be harnessed for another 2 years probably, as she JUST turned 4 and isn't 40 lbs yet. She has some time left in the air complete, but not a long time, i'll just see how it goes, but we will have to get something for her for the 2nd car when we get one.

 

[ctbcleveland]

Within the U.S., Audi at one point was offering upper tether anchors retrofitted back to 1993.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2001/10/22/031327.html

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=1646106

What I don't know is if they make different cars for Europe versus the U.S. When I searched for details, it sounded like the process required cutting into the carpet on the ledge behind the rear seats, so you wouldn't see anything right now on the vehicle.

Is the seatbelt in question a lap only or lap and shoulder belt? If it is a shoulder belt, when you pull it all the way out and then let it go back in a little, does it lock (meaning you can't pull any more material out)?

 

[armywife12]

The Complete Air has about the same top slot measurements as the Maestro and Nautilus so it won't buy you any more harnessing time. The only car seat that will is the Frontier 85. Try and get the Complete Air as upright as you can to get the most harnessing time out of it. An inch and a half left is about a yr to a yr and a half of harnessing time left so she might be ready for a booster when the harness is outgrown. We are running into the same problem. My 3.8 yr old has about 1.5-2 inches left in the CA before outgrowing it but we have the Frontier 85 to keep him harnessed longer.

 

[mykidsmylife]

Welcome to Germany! Where are you stationed? We are in Bavaria!
The Britax Frontier 85 would be a great option for you dd. BabyCatalog ships here for $24 for the Frontier. Also if you install it using the LOng Belt Path it helps reduce head excursion when a top tether cannot be used.
Top tethers are rare here in Germany and the newer Volvos and a few other brands are just now starting to get them!

Sent from my iPod touch using Car-Seat.Org

 

[mykidsmylife]

$24 for shipping! I got the Frontier shipped for $245 total!

Sent from my iPod touch using Car-Seat.Org

 

[mylittlet]

I agree. A frontier85 is the longest lastly 5-point available. Also the tallest booster on the market. The long belt path would help with head excursion. You can use it untethered to 65#.

Stefanie - CPStech in Iowa

 

[scuby20]

thank you all.

We are at Ramstein AB......so I'm not sure I know ANYTHING about long belt path. Is that something that boosters have? I will let her go in the Air as long as possible and then I will probably get the frontier, because I don't think even at 5 she'll be ready for a booster without a harness. She is wiggly for sure.

Now I'm all confused about the teather...I thought if the child was FF'ing, we HAD to use the teather. When my husband goes looking at cars, we don't worry about it so much with the station wagon type vehicles, because he can hook it to a metal partof the chair on the back/bottom....but whats the long belt path and head excursion thing?? is that just for the frontier? So if we put the air complete in his car (whever we find him one) and it doesn't have a teather, is that ok?? I thought it HAD to be teathered?? (meaning all FF'ing car seats had to be)

 

[mykidsmylife]

My sister is in Ramstien.

The long belt path is just a different way to install the Frontier with the seatbelt. You could look up Frontier Long Belt Path install on you tube and see how it it done.

The top tether is not mandatory (except in Canada) just highly recomended. If a car does not have a top tether hook then you cannot tether the seat. In some cars you can get a tether retrofitted but not yet here in Europe (unless it is a newer Volvo, Mercedes etc.)

When you say you can hook the tether to the bar in the station wagon do you mean the actual top tether hook or just some random metal bar? What year and make is the vehicle? If there is not top tether hook specifically made for tethering a car seat then you cannot tether the car seat to it.

Okay with the Frontier the shoulder belt (when installed LBP) goes up and over the side of the seat. In a wreck the seatbelt will lock and hold the top of the seat back some a lot like a top tether will. This is why it reduces head excursion. In the Complete Air the lap and shoulder belt or LATCH do not do this.

I would still use the Complete Air even if you could not use the top tether. I would consider still trying to get a Frontier though. You will not find any good seat (besides the Complete Air) and the KMCC or anywhere here in Germany, so your only option would be an online purchase if you decide to get her one.

 

[mykidsmylife]

Oh there is another member on here that is in Ramstien as well. We are about 3.5 hrs from Ramstien.

 

[ketchupqueen]

Well, I mean if you WANT to you could instead buy a Swedish seat, and rear-face to booster age. Then the question of tether points is moot. I would totally do that, myself, but, you know, I'm nuts.

 

[scuby20]

ok, well Im ok with ordering a seat..we order stuff all the time here.....I just thought all FF'ing car seats HAD to teather. I also thought, if there was no teather point, that just like a RF'ing teather (the radian and britax) you could hook it to a metal point in the seat....now the car that my husband was looking at, the audi, he said the seat belt in the car didn't lock. I wasn't there to look, so I don't know....but a locking clip would fix that right???

So even if it was a station wagon, without a place to teather, I cannot just teather it to a metal point in the vehicle???
And they don't HAVE to be teathered? Any of the car seats? (not just talking the frontier here)

 

[mykidsmylife]

Yes a locking clip would fix it.
No you cannot just tether it to a metal point. The impact between a rear-facing tethered seat and forward facing tethered seat is different. There is more weight put on a forward facing tether and you have no way of knowing how it will affect the install or if it will stay hooked etc.
Now if you had 3rd row seatbelts they could be used as a temporary tether point for a forward facing seat.

And no they don't have to be tethered. In some vehicels there is just no way to tether a forward facing car seat so you have no choice but to use it untethered.

 

[ketchupqueen]

In the case of no tethers available I do highly recommend using a seat that uses either a long belt path or a lockoff near the top of the seat, for better restraint of the top of the seat and less forces transferred to the child. There are European seats that do this, or the Frontier 85 (though that can't be used without tether past 65 lbs., just so you're aware) and I want to say there's one other seat that uses a long belt path? I think the Nautilus Elite has lockoffs near the top of the seat, doesn't it?

 

[scuby20]

thank you all so much. I get it now lol....It makes more sense when you all explain it to me While we need a second car, I just don't want to jeapordize safety. We had a second car in the states that we sold, but I wouldn't allow the kids to ride in it because it was so small. Here, they may need to ride in his second car because the kids are getting older and have activities that we may need two vehicles for. We don't want to buy new, but I guess we may not have a choice. Maybe we'll just buy new here and try to pay it off before we leave, and then I can get a new car when we come back to the states lol

 

[ketchupqueen]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to get an older car and rear-facing seats?

 

[mykidsmylife]

Anne the swedish seats are very expensive, even here. They are very hard to find here and the Volvo dealerships have just now started ordering the Britax Hi-Ways for those who want them but it still runs about $450-$500. Still cheaper then a newer car though.

OP there are lots of 2002 and newer American cars for sell ecspecially in your area. My sister bought a 2004 Jeep Cherokee for $3000.

There is a couple of German seats with the lock-offs up high and that go to 39.8 lbs but there are no higher weight harnessing seats here... They just go to boosters at 3.

Good Luck op.

 

[Kat_Momof3]

okay, clearly it is gonna be time for a germany c-s.org meetup!

 

[scuby20]

well, we found an American spec car for my husband, which we were very happy about. It's an 05 VW passat. It has latch and tether!! woo hoo. only paid 12,500 for it, so that isn't bad

Now I just need to get 2 car seats to install and keep in his car, because switching the car seats everytime we want to go somewhere is getting old. I think I'm going to get my son an Air Complete, since it seems to be a decent price, and he is still RF'ing till he reaches 40lbs, but he is short, so I don't have to worry about height. I think we are going to order my daughter the britax frontier for her second car seat, and put whichever one will fit best in his car (her current complete air, or the frontier).

Thank you all so much for the help