ERF Seat Questions

[Lotus33]

ERF Seat Questions... Help Please?

Hello,

I've been researching like crazy trying to find the best ERF carseat for my 17 month, 23 lb., 31" son & '04 Acura MDX. He's currently in a Graco Sugride35, in the second row center seat, & getting too tall for it.

Originally, I was looking at the Britax Advocate 70 CS, but I've also been considering importing a Swedish seat: Either a Britax Max-Way or Multi-Tech 2.

Here's the thing though:

The Advocate has an Inside Seated Shell Height of 23.5" & Top Harness Slot of 16.75", but only RF to 40 lbs.

The Max-Way also has an Inside Seated Height to top of "headrest" of 23.5" (not sure if this is the same as the shell as this is the only info. I could find online), a lower 15.5" aprox Top Slot, but RF to 55 lbs. (it has smaller head pillows though).

The Mult-Tech is an inch taller at 24.5" Inside to the Top of the Head Support -when all the way up (which is supposed to be an actual extension of the shell), Top Slot the same at aprox 15.5", & also RF to 55 lbs.

If realize the Swedish ones have a higher weight limit, but heard generally children outgrow seats height-wise before weight(?). So, since they are all mostly the same height would the imported ones really allow longer RF? If so, why the shorter harness slots!?

Now, in Sweden Britax says one can RF "until eyes or tops of ears are level with shell/headrest". In the US, though, it's "head level with the top of shell or more conservatively 1" shell above". Here: file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Kamalla/Desktop/New%20Folder%20%282%29/info..htm it says: "The "1-inch" rule is a general guideline to determine when to move a child from a rear-facing infant carrier to a rear-facing convertible. It is NOT a conservative guideline to determine when to turn a child front-facing (?). An appropriate height guideline to determine when a child is too tall for a rear-facing convertible is when the top of their head reaches the top of the shell. If your seat has an adjustable head support (like the Britax Boulevard or the Cosco Alpha Omega/3-in-1), then the top of the head support is the important level if it extends beyond the main shell." Then it goes on to say to defer to own make/model1" C anal %hough%.0D

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[mom2ari]

First of all, I am not a tech or anything, but thought I would comment. I think personaly, I would exhaust legal seats before importing, because there are many great seats available here. If you like Britax, then look at those first and go from there.

We own a Radian RXT as well as an XTSL, and a Truefit and I like them for different reasons. My oldest was turned ff for occasional trips in DHs truck around 3.5ish due to weight. She probably could have RFed a couple months longer, but she hit 34.5 lbs once on my scale and I didn't want to weigh her all the time. She is still Rfing in our oddy in the Radian and probably could for a while yet. The Angle Adjuster has helped so that the seat takes up less room so maybe that would be an option in your car, though I'm not sure. As for the tether spot for RFing, the seats that allow it RFing also come with a d-ring that can be attached to an anchor point (typically the seat leg) and then attached to the tether.

What I have done in the past when choosing between seats is purchase the seats I am thinking about on CC from a place that has free returns either online or in store then I try them in my car to find the best fit for my DD and my vehicle. We didn't drive anywhere with them, but she did sit in them to check for fit. I then returned the one(s) that weren't a right fit for us.

I also think that if your LO is 23 lbs at 17 months you might not need to worry so much about the super high weight seats, because weight gain typically slows a lot in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th years. A 40lb or maybe even a 35lb seat will probably last you a long time. I know that doesn't answer all of your questions, but maybe someone else will chime in also. I just know that deciding on a seat is a daunting task!

 

[penguingrooves]

Re: ERF Seat Questions... Help Please?

hi, sorry i haven't gotten around to measuring the inner height of the multi-tech from another thread. besides rarely using the car these days, i gave birth a few weeks ago, so i barely have any time to leave the house. but it looks like you got the info you needed.

as for your answer, i'm not a tech either, but as someone who struggled with the same thoughts, i felt the need to comment. i don't think anyone will tell you to break the law and import a swedish seat when there are high-enough RF options in the US.

as for the same inner height/harness measurements between US and swedish seats resulting in different weight limits, (as you alluded), swedish seats allow few inches more because the child's head can go above the shell, unlike US seats. so with higher height limit, perhaps higher weight limit can be allowed.

also, i believe all RF seats in the US must pass the safety test with the latch system which may have lower weight limit than a seatbelt installation - i'm speculating because europe's equivalent of the latch (isofix) also allow RF up to only 18 kg/40 lb. multi-tech and max-way can only be installed with a seatbelt; therefore, they can never pass the US test. i suppose it's possible that US seats can allow higher weight limits with a seatbelt installation, but i have no idea if the US seats themselves don't pass or regulations prohibit manufacturers from stating otherwise. still, i wouldn't defy a manufacturer's recommendation and go above the size limits.

as for a footprop vs tether, they serve different functions. i was confused too - you can read about a discussion which includes my confused thoughts at:

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=207203

oh, to add to your confusion, there will be another high-weight (45 lb) rear-facing seats called Clek Foonf this summer. it could be an option for those who don't like the radian which seems to have extreme haters AND lovers. sorry i'm not very helpful, but perhaps you should honestly assess how long you intend to RF. many people say they want to RF until the maximum limit the carseat allows, but sometimes it's not practical to do so. it's obviously up to you if you want to break the law to use a swedish seat for maximum RF time, but you may not need to. and i doubt anyone will recommend that you import a seat when you have a normal-sized child, at least on a public forum. good luck with your decision.

 

[ketchupqueen]

Re: ERF Seat Questions... Help Please?

The extra ten lbs. is indeed because of a foot prop or bracing-one or the other is necessary with Swedish seats to prevent that downward rotation. The tethers prevent movement to the back and side of the vehicle. They're built to perform in a different way to meet differing standards. Both standards are safe.

You can't rear-face any kid forever. An average sized, lightweight child will last a long, long time, likely post 4, often even past 5, rear-facing in a Radian or Peg Perego Convertible (or the upcoming Foonf.) I am not against importing seats in extreme cases to get kids to 3 or 4 if you're willing to take the risk, but it's not something that needs to be resorted to much- less so now that we have more 45 lb limit tall seats coming on the market! I have my child in an imported seat, she outgrew the Radian early by height, but if she still fits in a Foonf when it comes out we'll be getting one so she can be in a legal seat again.

 

[Lotus33]

Thanks for all your responses.

My post now seems to look all messed up, I tried to change a word in it & then it all went haywire, so hopefully that will fix itself.

Anyways, I'm still confused as to why if you can RF 'till tips of ears are even with back of seat shell/headrest on the Swedish seats that the highest harness height is only at 15", yet in the US the Britax seats are shorter, but have higher harness heights at 17". Makes no sense.

If child is still within weight limits here couldn't you technically use the same rule of tips of ears even with shell/headrest too? Is there something specifically special about the seats that makes that more OK, or is it just the standard there.

I'm more concerned the seat would be outgrown height-wise than weight-wise, but would still like to at least have a 40/45 lb. limit.

I would like to be able to at least RF 'till 4yrs old or longer if possible.

That Clek Foonf looks really promising though! I wonder if the height limit is to the headrest on that? I'm not sure if my son could last that long before needing a new seat before they are available. What kind of reputation do they have? Any idea how much they'll be?

Are there any other high-shell seats, besides the Radian & True Fit or Complete Air, that I am missing the potential of? What's the inside seated height of the Peg Perego?

ketchupqueen: what is the imported seat that you have & what do you like/not like about it?

 

[lourdes]

Hi, my DD is 4 y/o, she is RF in a Radian, she is 38 inches long, she is not the tallest child but she still has like 4-5 inches left on her Radian which means that she will likely make it to 5 RF before outgrowing the Radian by height, I do agree with others, before buying a Sweden seat I woud give the Radian or the Foonf a chance.
Also, I think, but I am not sure, that most Sweden seats need to brace with the front seat for a proper installation, and you car doesn't allow it.

 

[ketchupqueen]

Thanks for all your responses.

My post now seems to look all messed up, I tried to change a word in it & then it all went haywire, so hopefully that will fix itself.

Anyways, I'm still confused as to why if you can RF 'till tips of ears are even with back of seat shell/headrest on the Swedish seats that the highest harness height is only at 15", yet in the US the Britax seats are shorter, but have higher harness heights at 17". Makes no sense.

If child is still within weight limits here couldn't you technically use the same rule of tips of ears even with shell/headrest too? Is there something specifically special about the seats that makes that more OK, or is it just the standard there.

Yes. As I explained, they require bracing or a foot prop. They are structurally built differently to NOT rotate down as much. A child in a US seat that is over the shell rear-facing is likely to overrotate, causing head injuries and/or neck injuries, leading to possible brain damage, paralysis, or death.

I'm more concerned the seat would be outgrown height-wise than weight-wise, but would still like to at least have a 40/45 lb. limit.

I would like to be able to at least RF 'till 4yrs old or longer if possible.

That Clek Foonf looks really promising though! I wonder if the height limit is to the headrest on that? I'm not sure if my son could last that long before needing a new seat before they are available. What kind of reputation do they have? Any idea how much they'll be?

If you go in the Carseat Chat forum, there are several threads of people who have played with the prototype. It will allow rear-facing to 1" below the headrest on the highest setting, so VERY high. Every child should make it to 45 lbs. in this because it is just so high. Clek is expensive- the seats will be $450-$499. You can preorder. But there's a reason- they are made with a titanium frame, etc.

Are there any other high-shell seats, besides the Radian & True Fit or Complete Air, that I am missing the potential of? What's the inside seated height of the Peg Perego?

It ended up being about the same as the Radian by my measurement, once you take into account that the Radian now requires 1.5" above the head, not just 1". Here's a thread where I talked about my impressions of the seat, with a few pics: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=220174

ketchupqueen: what is the imported seat that you have & what do you like/not like about it?

I have an Akta/Graco Belogic. It is in the mid-range as far as shell size- and my VERY LONG TORSOED 4 year old still has room to grow in it. I like the lockoff, anti-rebound bar, foot prop, headwings, multi-position recline. I don't like that it's so difficult to put in and out of the belt path guides. (The idiots at the car wash, told NOT TO TOUCH the car seats, locked the belt, unbuckled it, and got it suspended halfway between, and it took us half an hour to wrestle out, grrr.) It is a rear-facing only seat which I'm ok with. It requires a lap/shoulder belt to install which I'm also ok with. It is heavy (again, I'm ok with that, but it's not a seat I transfer from car to car frequently.) Overall I really love it. But again, wouldn't have her in a Swedish seat if there was a US seat she had fit in at 3 years old (that installed properly in my car.) She was actually very close to outgrowing the Radian at only 2. Her torso height for the first 2 1/2 years of life was 50% of her body length (now it's 45%) and she is in the 97th %tile for height. If I'd had an average size kid with no special medical need to rear-face longer than US seats allowed, I'd have had no problems with rear-facing to the limits of US seats instead, and once the Foonf is out if she still fits she'll have one of those.

 

[Lotus33]

OK,

So, the Foonf is coming out near the end of Aug. & will have a standing height limit of 46" or head 1" below top of 26.5" tall headrest. It will be $450-500 which would end up costing as much as a Swedish import.

I like the Foonf, but it seems like it sits up really high. They also only test to 29.8mph. I thought that the Swedish Britax sets tested at 50mph, but maybe that's wrong. Still waiting on an answer for that one. The Foonf will be US legal right? It sounds German.

Are there any other high-back seats that I'm missing?

 

[ketchupqueen]

No, they most definitely do not test at that speed! They test at equivalent to 35 MPH- which I believe Clek may be doing too- NCAP testing is probably to come.

The Foonf is US legal. It will be able to be used about 3 inches beyond the Peg Perego or Radians by height (which is about 2-3 years of growth for the average child.)

And you've covered all the tallest seats with weight limits 40 lbs. or over, I believe.

 

[Lotus33]

I don't know if I can wait to be able to check out the Foonf before my son outgrows his Graco Snugride35. The Foonf seat looks so high up! We need more choices.

 

[ketchupqueen]

Well, there's always the option of buying a cheaper, smaller seat for now, with the intention of it being your travel seat/spare later.

 

[penguingrooves]

I don't know if I can wait to be able to check out the Foonf before my son outgrows his Graco Snugride35. The Foonf seat looks so high up! We need more choices.

the foonf does sit up high, but visibility was okay as long as it wasn't installed in the middle. when installed outboard, the foonf's headrest (the tall portion) was directly behind the front seat's headrest.