Cuddle Bags

[Mom2twins]

Hello,

I loaned out my peg perego car seat to my cousin for their new baby and they went to a car seat clinic with it and were told that they could not use a cuddle bag in it. Apparently this could compress in a accident and the harness could loosen. How is that different from having a newborn in a bulky snowsuit that could compress in the front and back of the child in an accident? I would think the cuddle bag only being behind the child and not as bulky as some of the snowsuits I've seen would be a better option?

Thanks in advance for you opinions.

 

[snowbird25ca]

Neither one of them are safe.

Cuddle bags have the compression risk, they also have the problem that they often change how the straps route, so a harness can seem tight & not be really tight, or it can seem the right height but not actually be the right height. I always tell parents to look at it this way - Transport Canada regulates the car seat padding in the bum area to be 4mm's. When you add in a cuddle bag you are quadrupling that.

As for snowsuits, they're not safe either. For a baby in a carrier it's actually really easy to keep them warm. Onesie, warm shirt, hat, mitts, buckle them in. Then layer warm blankets over top & use a pop-over shower cap type cover on the carrier to trap the heat in. I went through all last winter with my ds that way, and he was born 7wks early and was more at risk for temperature regulation problems or having to work too hard to regulate his temp than a full term baby would be. But he had absolutely no problems doing this. His hands would be chilly on occasion, but his head & tummy and back were sometimes sweaty.

I know a lot of parents simply don't believe it's possible to keep a baby warm enough with blankets & a pop-over cover, but it truly does. We were out regularly when it was -20 and ds never had a problem aside from chilly hands - and had we put mitts on him that would've fixed the problem.

 

[Jeanum]

Cuddle bags/Bundle Mes, and bulky snowsuits are all really no-nos with carseats. Safety Belt Safe USA has a helpful cold weather carseat FAQ at: http://www.carseat.org/Resources/FAQs.htm#coats A lightweight fleece jacket/sleeper, or a shower cap style infant seat cover that goes over the top of the infant seat and doesn't interfere with the harness or add lots of compressible material between the baby and the harness, are recommended cold weather options.

 

[MomToEliEm]

Cuddle Bags are not considered safe because they can compress in an accident leaving too much slack in the harness and possibly ejecting the child.

This is the same principle with snowsuits and they are not considered safe in a carseat either. Any outfit that is heavily padded will compress and might pose a hazard to a child in a carseat.

The best option is to find use a showercap style infant carrier cover as that will not compromise the harness in any way. For convertable seats, keep a blanket in the car to keep kids warm. When you unbuckle them from their seat, you can put on the heavier coats. If a coat is necessary in the carseat, make sure it is a thinner material coat. We have a fleece jacket that we use in the carseats. If we need something warmer, we then put on a heavy coat once the kids are out of the carseat.

 

[snowbird25ca]

Oh, and I just wanted to add - parents that I work with at checks who have either cuddle bags or snowsuits have them removed whenever possible before they leave the check. The exception is I don't always have prenatal check parents remove the cuddle bags right then & there - or if a parent were to refuse to remove it. But I always recommend it and whenever possible babies go home harnessed in their regular clothes with blankets over top. It's difficult to get a harness tightened properly on a young baby as it is. Adding in extra factors just makes it even harder and increases the risk that the harness won't be tight enough - and a small baby is more likely to be ejected due to a too loose harness because they're still so flexible and moldable from birth.

 

[dd9736]

I bought a cuddle bag for DS1, before I knew better, and it shifted the harness straps over, so that is IMO the biggest problem, if they want to do a snowsuit, I'd suggest a thin fleece, but layers are best, and blankets, I only use 1or 2 on top, until I get my custom shower cap style cover next sunday. I know that the peg seat has funky dimensions, so some may not fit it, but that's your best bet.

 

[Jewels]

Personally, I would use a buddle me lite bag not the jolly jumper cuddle bag or one that is extremely thick but only if some modifications were made so it didn't interfere with the straps. I know they are a big no-no but when you live where it can be in the -30's- -40's for a couple months at a time I do not believe that a sweater and receiving blankets can keep a baby warm. Even when I warm up my car and am wearing a winter jacket for that temperature and mits I still sit there and shiver until we get to where we are going, how can the back of the seat that is plastic be remotely warm? I think using something like the bundle me lite gives you have more control over the bulk as the there is only one piece of fabric between the baby and the seat where as the baby wearing a sweater it is behind the baby and in front of the baby under the the straps. Of course I think that it is a must to always check the straps to make sure they are not getting caught and that they are tight. I also think this is better then small babies wearing fleece bunting bags that are scads too big. I know the fleece bunting bag I received as a gift was a one size fits all

If our temperature didn't get as cold as it does I would be totally comfortable just using the shower cap and receiving blankets but do to our extreme coldness I would feel more comfortable using something like the bundle me lite with modifications made.

 

[CDNTech]

***I've changed my stance on this after some checking... see post #33 in this thread***

I need to preface this with the fact that our winters get very cold. We generally have a few months of temperatures in the -30 to -40 degrees Celsius. These temperatures mean we have to be realistic with both carseat safety *and* cold weather safety.

While my general answer is no to cuddle bags, I do have some exceptions.

I don't mind the Bundle Me Lites... I find them to be just as thin as a fleece jacket.

The parent would need to be meticulous about making sure the harness was not caught up on the bag *every* single time they tightened the harness. I would also recommend cutting bigger holes around the harness straps so that you can visually see the harness is not caught up on anything.

Too often I see parents putting fleece coats/snowsuits on their children that are oversized and cause a lot of bunching and harness slack. I would rather see that parent use a *thin* bundle me bag that is sized correctly, then to see all the slack an ill-fitting fleece coat would bring.

IF a parent is using a bundle me lite, then I would not want to see *any* coat on the baby. Rather pile an extra blanket on top of the baby *after* the harness is buckled and then follow with the cover of the Bundle me Lite. A bundle me lite also allows you to pull back the cover once the vehicle is warm and therefore prevents possible overheating of the baby.

If you live in an area where the temps are frequently not this cold, there is really no need to use a Bundle Me Lite... a properly fitted fleece jacket will suffice and for older kids in convertible seats, you can use the tricks in this thread for safe buckling... http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?p=273916#post273916

 

[snowbird25ca]

But you know, those bundle me lite bags, really aren't necessary. We had a cold winter here last year, and my ds was often sweaty when I took him out of his seat with using only blankets and a pop-over cover. We're far enough north that it gets really cold here, as I'm sure my fellow edmontonians can vouch for.

We don't have a garage, and until the end of last February didn't have a remote start either.

So based on my experience, it is 100% possible to get through -30 temps with baby wearing a onesie and sweatshirt, and heavy fleece blankets over baby covered by a pop-over cover. And most people don't go out with their kids at -40. The wind isn't going to whip through the plastic, so I don't really count that in the actual temperature since the flesh isn't exposed to that cold. :thumbsup:

 

[Jewels]

and sweatshirt, and heavy fleece blankets over baby covered by a pop-over cover. And most people don't go out with their kids at -40. The wind isn't going to whip through the plastic, so I don't really count that in the actual temperature since the flesh isn't exposed to that cold. :thumbsup:

But what is the difference between a sweatshirt and a bundleme lite? The bundle me lite is likely thiner then a sweatshirt and the bundle me lite doesn't go under the harness at the front of the baby. The only time I would use this is if modifications were made to the slot area to make it more user friendly.

Today when we got up it was -24C without the windchill, so it was cold and it has already arrived. Last year we had almost 2 months where the weather did not get warmer then -30C (not including the windchill) and there comes a time when you have to go out with your baby. When you live in this sort of cold weather you have to still live it is just a fact of life.

The plastic still gets unbelievably cold and the wind still does go through the unused harness straps.

I still do not see how you can tell me that when I am freezing cold (and rarely do I get cold) wearing a jacket meant for -30C to -40C weather that my baby is just as warm wearing a sweatshirt and blankets

I do agree that for the most part the bundle me lites are not necessary but in some climates and temperatures I do think that they are acceptable. I think that the bundle me lite is a good alternative for the parents that are going to dress their babies in big puffy snow suits that are way to big and are going to compress even more then a lite bundle me.

 

[CDNTech]

***I've changed my stance on this after some checking... see post #33 in this thread***

AB does not get cold the way SK and MB do... or for that matter, the more northern climates that get really cold.

It's a completely different kind of cold and it's not always possible to stay at home... older kids have school, dr's appointments, sanity break

Very rarely will you ever see a parent buying a fleece jacket/snowsuit that is sized for their newborn/3month old... typically they are buying 6 months and up so that it will last. An ill fitting fleece jacket/snowsuit is going to provide way more harness slack than a bundle me lite.

It's the basic trick... buckle your child in without a jacket. Take them out without loosening the straps and rebuckle them in with the jacket. If you don't have to loosen the straps, then it passes the test. You can do this same trick with a bundle me lite and it will pass the test... it does not work with *thick* bundle me's or cuddle bags (especially that jolly jumper one :thumbsdown.

As for wind whipping through the plastic, it does happen. There are air vent holes, harness slot holes, ect in that plastic and the wind/cold does go through it fairly easily.

I'm just saying that not everything is always black and white. If the cuddle bag can pass the harness test and the parent is meticulous about making sure there is no slack in the harness, then it's no different than using a fleece jacket/snowsuit (and it can be incredibly difficult to find a newborn/preemie sized fleece jacket/snowsuit).

I'm not recommending all parents go out and buy cuddle bags... if you don't need one, then I prefer that you don't use them. There are certain situations though where they work better. I'm all about *safe* alternatives. Just my :twocents:

 

[dd9736]

it's been pretty cold here the last few days, and DS2 has been fine under just 1 thicker fleece blanket over top of his entire body, with a recieving blanket tucked around his feet, in fact, he got to warm the other night when it was -20, and started fussing till I took the blanket off his face.

 

[CDNTech]

it's been pretty cold here the last few days, and DS2 has been fine under just 1 thicker fleece blanket over top of his entire body, with a recieving blanket tucked around his feet, in fact, he got to warm the other night when it was -20, and started fussing till I took the blanket off his face.

Yeah, but have you compared the thickness of the padding in your Peg Perego to say that of a bottom of the line Evenflo/Graco from Walmart? That alone is quite a difference in warmth.

My Evenflo for Aiden got cold in Spring weather... the top of the line Snugride I had for Mikkel was much more padded (similar to the Peg) and rarely got cold.

 

[Jewels]

it's been pretty cold here the last few days, and DS2 has been fine under just 1 thicker fleece blanket over top of his entire body, with a recieving blanket tucked around his feet, in fact, he got to warm the other night when it was -20, and started fussing till I took the blanket off his face.

For the most part, I think a blanket will work pretty well but our cold weather is just starting and I know we will sit in the -30's even close to the -40's where we will constantly be seeing sundogs and then I don't think that a blanket will be enough. I live on the prairies in the middle of no-where (basically, 1.5hrs from any major city) so when the wind goes here it really goes and is fierce.

 

[snowbird25ca]

But what is the difference between a sweatshirt and a bundleme lite? The bundle me lite is likely thiner then a sweatshirt and the bundle me lite doesn't go under the harness at the front of the baby.

Today when we got up it was -24C without the windchill, so it was cold and it has already arrived. Last year we had almost 2 months where the weather did not get warmer then -30C (not including the windchill) and there comes a time when you have to go out with your baby. When you live in this sort of cold weather you have to still live it is just a fact of life.

I still do not see how you can tell me that when I am freezing cold (and rarely do I get cold) wearing a jacket meant for -30C to -40C weather that my baby is just as warm wearing a sweatshirt and blankets

I do agree that for the most part the bundle me lites are not necessary but in some climates and temperatures I do think that they are acceptable. I think that the bundle me lite is a good alternative for the parents that are going to dress their babies in big puffy snow suits that are way to big and are going to compress even more then a lite bundle me.

I didn't realize from what Jen says that you guys have a different type of cold than what we do. But that aside, my kids wear sweatshirts in the winter anyways. They wouldn't be warm enough in the house or when we're out and about otherwise. :thumbsup:

And layers do work differently than just a winter coat. Although I think I would feel differently if I was going for walks outside in the cold. But the car is sheltered from the wind and heats up.

We did have -25 and -30 temps last year not counting wind chill. All I can say is from my experience, my ds was often sweaty when I took him out. He typically had his onesie and sweater, then we'd buckle him in & tuck a flannel receiving blanket or 2 around him tightly, then he's get another 1 or 2 fleece blankets folded up depending on how cold it was outside. Then the pop-over cover. If he'd been cold taking him out of the carseat, I would've figured something else out, but the bundling on top and tucked in on the sides was always enough. :shrug-shoulders:

When it comes down to it, a bundle me lite really isn't doing much in the way of warmth underneath kiddo anyways unless you're outside in the wind for longer than the minute it takes to walk to the car - and even then I doubt how much of a difference it would make... it doesn't have any wind resistance to it - or the one's I've seen don't anyways. And they're not completely closed at the top, so heat can escape from the top. The thing with the pop over covers is that they can completely cover the top of the seat and it traps the heat in.

I dunno, it's splitting hairs in many ways. I'm just not convinced the bundle me lite's would do anything different than multiple layers of blankets. But while we disagree on them being necessary, if the seat is properly used and provided they didn't interfere with the straps they likely wouldn't pose a risk. :thumbsup:

 

[snowbird25ca]

Yeah, but have you compared the thickness of the padding in your Peg Perego to say that of a bottom of the line Evenflo/Graco from Walmart? That alone is quite a difference in warmth.

My Evenflo for Aiden got cold in Spring weather... the top of the line Snugride I had for Mikkel was much more padded (similar to the Peg) and rarely got cold.

That's probably a good point. I imagine since we had a front adjust snugride & then the SS1 we probably had a fairly padded cover.

 

[snowbird25ca]

For the most part, I think a blanket will work pretty well but our cold weather is just starting and I know we will sit in the -30's even close to the -40's where we will constantly be seeing sundogs and then I don't think that a blanket will be enough. I live on the prairies in the middle of no-where (basically, 1.5hrs from any major city) so when the wind goes here it really goes and is fierce.

Remind me never to complain about a deep freeze that lasts 10 days then. LOL.

I had no idea you guys got that much colder... I figured when we had a deep freeze it was similar to other areas of Canada. -30's suck, but typically we settle in around -20 to -25 at night unless we're in a deep freeze. We had a lot of cold nights last year and I don't usually complain about the weather, but I got sick of how long the cold lasted last year. They usually close schools when it gets below -30, what do they do there since it's that cold so much of the time.
(total thread hi-jack, sorry.)

 

[Jewels]

And layers do work differently than just a winter coat. Although I think I would feel differently if I was going for walks outside in the cold. But the car is sheltered from the wind and heats up.

When it comes down to it, a bundle me lite really isn't doing much in the way of warmth underneath kiddo anyways

But what difference is it using a bundle me lite and unzipping a jacket on a older child and then re-buckling the jacket over the harness'. The plastic of the shell gets darn cold and when the weather is that cold the car never fully warms up, especially in the evening when the sun isn't there to help. We can warm up our car 5-10min drive the 10min to the next town, drive home again and then the car is just barely warming up. It just isn't practical to warm your car up for 30min or more environmentally or financally.

They usually close schools when it gets below -30, what do they do there since it's that cold so much of the time.
(total thread hi-jack, sorry.)

It has to be below -44C with or without the windchill, which ever one reaches the temperature first before they will cancel school and that is because of the buses that have to run sometimes it is because of snow but usually because of the cold temperatures.

Also to have an indoor lunch or recess for school and daycare the magic temperature is -25C again with or without the windchill whichever reaches -25C first.

 

[CDNTech]

Remind me never to complain about a deep freeze that lasts 10 days then. LOL.

I had no idea you guys got that much colder... I figured when we had a deep freeze it was similar to other areas of Canada. -30's suck, but typically we settle in around -20 to -25 at night unless we're in a deep freeze. We had a lot of cold nights last year and I don't usually complain about the weather, but I got sick of how long the cold lasted last year. They usually close schools when it gets below -30, what do they do there since it's that cold so much of the time.
(total thread hi-jack, sorry.)

-30's are the highs there... not what the nighttime lows

You still go to school, you are just not allowed outside for recess... it takes a lot to close a school in the prairies. That's probably why we find it funny when people complain about -25... although since moving to Alberta, I've become one of those people.

I can't wait to go home for Christmas this year... my parents built a second garage in the backyard and that means I get to park the van in the insulated attached garage up front! Woohoo!!! (home is SK where they get cold temps and snow )

 

[snowbird25ca]

But what difference is it using a bundle me lite and unzipping a jacket on a older child and then re-buckling the jacket over the harness'. The plastic of the shell gets darn cold and when the weather is that cold the car never fully warms up, especially in the evening when the sun isn't there to help. We can warm up our car 5-10min drive the 10min to the next town, drive home again and then the car is just barely warming up. It just isn't practical to warm your car up for 30min or more environmentally or financally.

I don't think the weight of it is really any different. My biggest issue is that it goes in the bum area and often bunches in the crease of the seat, and that they almost always affect the straps somehow. The new ones are coming with a sideways hole along the length of the back on each side. The problem is though, that it makes the straps want to be on their side instead of flat. Maybe it would've been easier to use with a baby actually buckled in, it was a prenatal check... but despite the cut-outs, the back of it just wouldn't sit flat without bunching between the straps, and it was almost interfering worse than if there'd been holes. Maybe this would also be brand dependent? The carrier was a designer 22, and those are awful at the best of times.

That's mainly my issue with them anyways. Last winter we used a light jacket with dd in the actual car itself. We've been using one this year too and we don't have to adjust the harness so it's ok to use. But now I realize you obviously get much colder than us and probably end up with a heavier coat being needed in the car too.

I feel kind of silly for having no clue how cold you guys get and for how long at a time.