Coccoro Install for Newborn in Civic

[oxeye]

So when you put a baby into that seat, do you lift the baby over the shoulder belt or under it?

I go over the belt.

 

[tl01]

I go over the belt.

Interesting. I wonder how this works for people with higher cars. I could see how it could easy for a sedan. I've thought about buying a Coccoro and if I installed it that way I'd have to lift the baby to at least my shoulder height to get the baby over the belt. That would be a challenge with a bigger baby. DS was 22 lbs at 7 months and about 25-27 lbs at a year. Hmm.....

What if you knock into the belt... does that ruin the installation?

 

[LISmama810]

Yes, sorry, I wasn't clear.

If you DON'T wrap the belt around the back, you can lock at the retractor or use the removable lockoff.

If you DO wrap around the back, you can use the removable lockoff or not (either way you'd use the belt guide).

As for putting the baby in, I go over the top. I'm not sure how practical it would be to put the baby under the seatbelt. Honestly, it's weird the first few times, but then you don't even notice anymore. I started with the seat in a Prius so it was really easy just to drop the baby in since the car is so low. I was worried about it in the Pilot and Odyssey since they're taller, but it was a non-issue.

ETA: I knock the belt all the time and it has never loosened.

 

[Momx5]

I did not read all of these posts, but does the seat have to be installed like that or is there a way where the seatbelt is not in the way? I had decided on the Radian XTSL for this baby, but I am starting to rethink it because of the height of the Radian being in the middle seat.

 

[LISmama810]

Wrapping the belt around the back is optional. It is definitely my preferred way, though. It seems to give the seat more stability, plus it reduces downward rotation (and thereby rebound as well).

So while you don't have to do it, you might want to give it a try. (Depending on how many kids you have, if it were installed in the middle you could load the baby from the side without the seatbelt in the way, too.)

 

[Calideedle]

Interesting. I wonder how this works for people with higher cars. I could see how it could easy for a sedan. I've thought about buying a Coccoro and if I installed it that way I'd have to lift the baby to at least my shoulder height to get the baby over the belt. That would be a challenge with a bigger baby. DS was 22 lbs at 7 months and about 25-27 lbs at a year. Hmm.....

What if you knock into the belt... does that ruin the installation?

I had it installed for a week in my Dads truck (F150, really high up) and I had no issues getting DS2 who was 11months and 23lbs in and out. I went over or he climbed under.

 

[lpperry]

Can you post a picture of the stroller?!

 

[ketchupqueen]

In my car routing around the back seemed to cause the belt to switch unless you were very careful (I had the same problem when putting in my European infant seat) so I wouldn't do it; if I were doing a 3 across or had the baby in the seat already would probably find it easier to switch the retractor. So I'd probably let circumstances dictate which locking method I used, personally. I'm considering one (plus a frame!) for the next baby...

 

[Carrie_R]

Thanks for the confirmation on options

I'll be loading mine through the Pilot hatch, but if I had to load from the side it seems like the belt would make things funky, at least for a newborn. In a sedan it probably wouldn't be an issue. If I had it installed center, I would probably just load from the opposite side.

 

[Pixels]

Wrapping the belt around the back is optional. It is definitely my preferred way, though. It seems to give the seat more stability, plus it reduces downward rotation (and thereby rebound as well).

Based on crash tests I've seen, wrapping the belt around back actually increases rebound. When the seat begins to rebound, the extra length in the belt wrapped around back translates into a suddenly very loose install. While the head end of the seat rotated up, the bottom of the seat was suddenly free and rotated down and somewhat towards the front of the vehicle, exaggerating the rotation of the seat overall.

 

[LISmama810]

Based on crash tests I've seen, wrapping the belt around back actually increases rebound. When the seat begins to rebound, the extra length in the belt wrapped around back translates into a suddenly very loose install. While the head end of the seat rotated up, the bottom of the seat was suddenly free and rotated down and somewhat towards the front of the vehicle, exaggerating the rotation of the seat overall.

The theory I heard was that since the downward rotation is decreased, the rebound would be as well. Since it doesn't go down as far, it doesn't have as far to go back up.

Maybe it would make sense to use the detachable lockoff to keep the lap belt tight if sudden slack really is a problem.

In any case, I'm more concerned with the initial downward rotation; not so much with what happens after that. Do you have links to videos, though?

 

[Pixels]

I'm pretty sure this is a misuse video (Designer 22), but the basic physics should still hold. http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/safedrivers-childsafety-programs-testing-safety1st-963.htm#subaru

 

[LISmama810]

Interesting...but I'm not sure if a video showing misuse is representative of how another seat, installed properly, would act in the same conditions.

 

[ketchupqueen]

The belt isn't routed through a guide on the Designer 22 so I'm not sure how that would change the behavior of the seat, but I would think it should at least somewhat.

 

[Kat_Momof3]

only piece of advice I have... remove the harness pads until baby is bigger... while they are intended to squish together and all that, they're simply too long for a newborn.

 

[Vera@Combi]

Hello Everyone:

We are delighted that you are enjoying the Coccoro and the Coccoro Flash.

The rear facing use actually has 4 different ways of allowed installation method. The reason for the 4 options is to try all 4 to see what works the best in the vehicle the Coccoro is being installed in and what is the most convenient and easiest for the individual caregiver to use. We are aware of the fact that real-world vehicle seat and seatbelt configurations are much different than the sled we are required to use for certifying for compliance so have gone above and beyond the necessary testing to bring you a product with versatility.

Options for RF Installation:

1. LATCH Installation

2. The European method of placing the shoulder belt behind the seat back in a rear facing position allows for better ride-down during a crash. We do understand that this method is not always practical and sometimes not possible, so have provided a traditional buckle-to-retractor path as an option. (See 3 & 4)

3. Buckle-to-Retractor path of shoulder belt using a locking latch plate or switching the retractor to the ALR (locked) mode.

4. Buckle-to-Retractor path of shoulder belt using the separate Lock-Off that came in the pouch that also serves as tether storage. When using the separate Tru-Safe Lock Off with a non-locking latch plate, the retractor does not have to be switched into the ALR (locked) mode. There is no harm in doing so but it is not necessary. The True Safe Lock Off has a uni-directional cam on the inside that does not allow for the seat belt to be pulled loose. The Lock Off should rest against the latch plate.

On Video Clips: Please remember a few key factors when viewing crash test footage:

1. You are looking at 1 frame for each 1/1,000th to 1/10,000th of a second. The entire event is over in less than 0.2 seconds (2-tenths of a second)
2. Rotational angle cannot exceed 70 degrees when measured from the vertical plane at peak rotation during the test.
3. Rebound forces are typically lower by nature of the event.
4. The European shoulder belt routing does NOT increase the rebound. If the individual has concerns about the rebound they should look for a child restraint that has rebound management features such as the Anti Rebound Bar found on the Combi Shuttle 33, Zeus Turn and Zeus 360.
5. The Transport Canada videos reflect correct installation according to manufacturer’s instructions. There are many very old videos using outdated products on these web sites. Many of the Child Restraints seen in the videos are no longer on the market and the ones that are currently available may have many design and performance enhancements.
6. MOST IMPORTANTLY: The safety of individual seats should NEVER be assessed by utilizing these videos without the ATD Data that goes with it. All CRS Manufacturers are in business to protect children in crashes and design their products accordingly. Viewing the videos and identifying movement as undesirable without the necessary data can be very misleading and can lead to incorrect conclusions.

Please remember that I’m always here to help you and answer questions or concerns!

Vera Fullaway| Community Outreach Program Instructor | Combi CARES
Tel: 303.378.2932 | Fax: 303.595.5269 | www.combi-intl.com

 

[natysr]

Vera,

Thanks for taking the time to respond and clarify.

 

[Kat_Momof3]

Vera... thanks so much!! We really DO LOVE LOVE LOVE the coccoro on this forum!!