Question Child Car Seats & Sub-Zero Temperatures....

[2boys3girls]

Hi, I'm wondering how sub-zero temps affect a child car seat? Is there testing/documentation on how a car seat performs in crashes once the seat has been in an outside-parked car overnight when the temps dip to 10, 20,
30, ect degrees below zero. As far as EPS foam, I know it's different than your standard styrofoam, but still..... We live in Northern Minnesota where it can and does get frigidly cold. Wind Chills as well as the reg. temp have definitely gotten down to -30, -40. Over Christmas, I know it was as low as
-25. The other day, my husband & I and or 5m old were out during the day & it was around 0. Our baby rides RF (obviously) in a MyRide in "the middle of the middle row" in our 03 Montana 8p. Our 8 y.o DD's parkway (not SG) was on driver-side outboard. My husband reached over the parkway to put the baby in his seat, barely bumped the head wing on the PW & a small piece of the styro broke off. His response was, "You've got to be kidding me?! These seats are made with styrofoam?! Styrofoam & plastic BOTH will crack in really cold temps!" He's a business owner in the automotive industry & claims to have seen both styro & hard Plastic break in subzero (or just plain "cold") weather. Yes, I realize that EPS isn't just plain styrofoam (so we're told) AND my wonderful husband knows very little about car seat safety. He thinks babies should FF ASAP. yeah right. Incidentally, I have a Radian 65 w/cracked styrofoam. Not in use. But I'm probably going to have to use it until I can get a RNXT, which will be soon and the $ is not a problem, since both of my 2 dds are very close to 40lbs & are currently using a Scenera & Touriva. The little girls are 5 (as of yesterday) & almost 3 (on 2/2) and about 2 1/2 months ago they were both 37lbs. The 3 y.o gains faster than the 5 y.o. If either girl is 40 or over she will not use the scenera or touriva. I'm def. not crazy about those seats anyway. They ea. had RNs but I traded my sis for her TF Monet, & then decided it took up too much space in my van, so I moved my younger dd into the Scenera which I had purchased brand new as a back up. Then the styrofoam cracked on my RN & I moved the 5 y.o into the Touriva, which I bought brand new a few yrs ago as back up. It rarely got used, has spent most of it's life in our guest room. Well, anyway, now that I've totally gotten off track..... have CS been tested to withstand frigid temps? I'm wondering also how WELL A "FROZEN" hard plastic shell would hold up, harness straps breaking through?

Any FACTS, INFORMATION, OPINIONS, & CONVERSATION on this would be helpful! thank you!

 

[DaniannieB]

I'm not sure about crash testing when the seats are actually cold, but I do know that most, if not all, of the car seat manufacturers test their child restraints for integrity under temperature extremes (both hot and cold).

Also, although EPS foam does a good job of absorbing energy, it can be brittle. It's been known to break, and I don't think the breaking has anything to do with the temperature of the seat or foam.

 

[tl01]

I don't have any info about car seats in cold climates but I know that on a seat I bought for DS a while back, I had foam break at normal room temperature from barely touching it at all.

 

[Shanora]

I would imagine that the seat would preform just fine, seeing as for the most part in the vehicle would have warmed up, and so would the plastic. My seats have held up pretty well, and I get -40 temps here in the winter.

 

[snowbird25ca]

I would imagine that the seat would preform just fine, seeing as for the most part in the vehicle would have warmed up, and so would the plastic. My seats have held up pretty well, and I get -40 temps here in the winter.

:yeahthat: (We live in the same area, so same temperatures...)

I know that some manufacturers do test their seats for extreme temperatures. When I bought my SS1 I remember the packaging mentioning that the seat was tested for extreme temperatures of both hot and cold repeatedly. I don't recall how it was worded anymore, but there was a brief description of it on the box.

Being in a cold climate, and having had kids in seats for 5.5 years now, I've never had a seat show signs of wear or damage as a result of the extreme temperatures. I definitely wouldn't use a seat past it's expiry date since it's probable that over time the plastic does start to become affected by the repeated extremes in temperature, but I definitely would have no concerns prior to that.

If it makes you feel any better, I'd hazard a guess that at least 2/3 of the seats in use in Canada experience extreme temperatures - and we get above 30 celcius in the summer as well, so that's a big temperature range when you look at lows of -40 in the winter... there aren't reports of carseats structurally failing left, right, and center in Canada despite the extremes so many of our seats experience, so it's not something that really worries me. I think it's fair to say that even without knowing if every manufacturer does testing for extreme temperatures, real world experience has shown it to not be a risk.

FWIW, while the plastic may seem more brittle when it's cold, in lots of seats it does still have a tiny bit of give in it. Not all mind you, but lots. And styrofoam is brittle all the time. I'd be inclined to believe that EPS and EPP foam aren't affected very much by the cold.

Sorry I don't have any hard data for you, but sometimes real world experience counts for a lot and I think in this case the evidence is overwhelming... With the majority of seats in use in Canada experiencing these extreme temperatures, we'd know it if there were problems and seat failures as a result.

 

[2boys3girls]

Thanks to everyone who replied! All of the responses thus far make very good sense to me. Just after hearing my husband's comments I really started thinking about it. And boy does it do WONDERS when the husband's feelings/comments are "validated" & "considered" rather than brushed off or ignored, if YKWIM! ;o)

 

[Adventuredad]

Testing of car seats in extreme temperatures is not part of the standard but it's of course something manufacturers do. Manufacturers start out by selecting a plastic which handle well cross a broad spectrum of temperatures, including very hot and very warm climate. Testing take place to make sure car seats work well in Arizona/Minnesota climate etc.

Some plastic can certainly break in sub zero temperatures like your husband says and some will work equally well when it's -40 C. The understanding of plastic in car seats is in general very misunderstood and full of incorrect rumors.

Many parents believe plastic in a car seat will somehow degrade sharply after six years when reality is that nothing happens to the plastic until 15+ years. Often much longer than that.

 

[SafeDad]

Testing of car seats in extreme temperatures is not part of the standard but it's of course something manufacturers do. Manufacturers start out by selecting a plastic which handle well cross a broad spectrum of temperatures, including very hot and very warm climate. Testing take place to make sure car seats work well in Arizona/Minnesota climate etc.

Some plastic can certainly break in sub zero temperatures like your husband says and some will work equally well when it's -40 C. The understanding of plastic in car seats is in general very misunderstood and full of incorrect rumors.

Many parents believe plastic in a car seat will somehow degrade sharply after six years when reality is that nothing happens to the plastic until 15+ years. Often much longer than that.

The issue is not just one of being able to handle a specific high or low temperature. That is the easy part of material selection. The problematic part is being able to handle large temperature cycles. These cycles happen at least daily over many years. Yes, that can be a problem, unless you completely trust the manufacturer to have chosen the most expensive materials that can best tolerate this type of cycling.

6 years is certainly an arbitrary number. Material science is not an exact one. For someone that lives in a desert where the temperature swings can easily be 100 degrees in a day and is also subject to constant solar exposure and vibration, that time may be less. For a carseat stored in a cool, dry basement for many years, that time would be longer.

In any case, I am certain that I would not want to be responsible for telling parents to test a child safety seat that is 15+ years old on their baby under any circumstances. To even imply that much seems extremely irresponsible and possibly even dangerous, given all the possible issues a product that old may have.

 

[SafeDad]

I am not certain, but I would expect that child safety seat manufacturers use materials designed for the automotive temperature range. In particular, I doubt there would be any issue with the plastic becoming too brittle, even at the low end of that range, usually considered to be around -40 degrees. There are child safety seats that are re-inforced with metal, though it's impossible to say if that actually improves performance at any particular temperature or not. Plastics perform extremely well when chosen correctly. As for the EPS foam, those can and do break at any temperature, unfortunately.

-Edit: My apologies, I didn't notice that this was a year old thread.

 

[cookie123]

I think it would be fun to email some of the manufacturers and see what they say.

 

[SafeDad]

Graco touts that at least some of their seats pass 213 crash tests at temperature extremes.