car seat and locking seatbelt questions

[scuby20]

Ok, so I have a few questions. Recently we used my daughters travel lighter vest on vacation. It was great except she could lean forward a lot, which I didn't want her to do. So then I started pulling the seatbelt all the way out to "lock" it and that way she couldn't lean forward. I had posted that question on here as to if that was ok. No one had a clear answer and some suggested using the tether, which I did have with me, but was easier to lock the seatbelt. So fast forward to yesterday. My kids and I came back from my mom's house to our house in washington. I have carseats on either side so I don't have to fly with any. I brought the travel vest with me, because my husband recently had surgery and we had recently taken the carseats out to clean and he wasn't able to put them back in. I told him to only bring my son's carseat so I only had to install one car seat. So I got that in, and used the vest for my daugther. I stretched the seat belt all the way out, and it wouldn't lock like the rental car (which was a 2010 car) did. So I tried the other side (where my son sits, but we were using latch for his)...didn't do it there either. I tried the passengers side in the front....nope, that one doesn't do it either. Then I remembered we had installed a car seat for my son when he was an infant and we used the seatbelt, because we had a better fit.....but now thinking, it didn't lock....so how did we do that? I got the owners manual out and nothing about it in there.

I have a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan, the kind with captains chairs in the 2nd row. So what's up.?? why isn't it locking? I'm all kinds of confused now.

 

[HayleyCPST]

I believe all cars after '96 or so have seat belts that lock in all passenger seats. Either with a locking latchplate, Switchable retractor or ALR.

I believe the caravan has a locking latchplate. If you can pull the shoulder portion of the seat belt when it's perpendicular but can't when it's parallel, then it's a locking latchplate. However, dodge vans have lightweight locking latchplates and will not secure a car seat properly. We recommend turning the latchplate over, but I'm not sure you can do this with a rider vest.

This site has great information regarding seat belt types. http://www.carseatsite.com/lockingclips.htm

 

[scuby20]

Ok so I read that and will look at my van to see. However could someone take a picture of the upside down latch plate thing. I can't believe I didn't know about this!!! I swear I sometimes feel I can't keep up! Lol. I know it sounds dumb asking for a pic, but I want to make sure I understand what I'm supposed to do.

 

[HayleyCPST]

I don't have a picture but you literally just route the belt through the car seat and instead of buckling it like you would normally, you flip it 180 degrees so there is a twist in it. Like I said, I don't know if you can do this with the rider vest.

 

[Defrost]

I don't have a picture but you literally just route the belt through the car seat and instead of buckling it like you would normally, you flip it 180 degrees so there is a twist in it. Like I said, I don't know if you can do this with the rider vest.

Flipping is probably not going to help with the vest, because it's probably the upper-body movement she's worried about.

OP, be sure to read the link that was posted. With a locking latchplate, only the lap-portion of the seat belt locks before a crash. The retractor (the thing that winds up the seat belt) will kick in and lock during a crash, but with that kind of seat belt, the shoulder portion will move freely and can't be locked before a crash.

 

[dogmelissa]

If you pull on the belt really quick, it should lock. But that's not going to stop your DD from leaning forward with the vest on, unless she goes really quickly. Can you reinstall your DD's seat instead of relying on her to sit properly in the vest? You should be able to get it tight enough on your own, try sitting/kneeling/leaning on the seat when you tighten (will you use the LATCH for DD's?).

Good luck,
Melissa

 

[scuby20]

ok, so I'm confused, I though the shoulder portion of the seatbelt would lock during a crash (assuming an adult was sitting in it)....yeah the lap portion I'm not concerned with...it's the shoulder portion. And really the only reason I asked this question is for future reference. Her Britax Blvd is now installed in the van. I only used it on the way home from the airport becasue with my husband on Crutches, he couldn't help (though the britax are SO easy to install, I love them)...but on crutches he couldn't really carry a bunch of stuff into the van without me there to help. (he was picking us up)...so we only used it for the ride home from the airport.

But it perplexed me and made me question future uses of it when we vacation and whatnot.

 

[scuby20]

and hayley, thanks for the clearly worded description...that makes total sense now...I guess I justed needed it painted with words lol! And thankfully I now know that about my van so if I chose to install any future car seats using the belt instead of latch...because my daughter is currently like 38 lbs, and I know soon I have to use the seatbelt with her BLVD instead of the latch.....would those lock things that snap down over the seatbelt as it's routed through, help with the seatbelt not locking strongly enough?

sorry for all the questions....and in 2 years I'll have to get rid of the kids BLVD's cause they will expire, so I'll then be asking all about what seats to get then lol. Thankfully the radian xt (wish I had the super latch one) has an 8 year expiration! And omg, I HATE installing the radian...the blvd's are SOOO easy to install

 

[HayleyCPST]

and hayley, thanks for the clearly worded description...that makes total sense now...I guess I justed needed it painted with words lol! And thankfully I now know that about my van so if I chose to install any future car seats using the belt instead of latch...because my daughter is currently like 38 lbs, and I know soon I have to use the seatbelt with her BLVD instead of the latch.....would those lock things that snap down over the seatbelt as it's routed through, help with the seatbelt not locking strongly enough?

sorry for all the questions....and in 2 years I'll have to get rid of the kids BLVD's cause they will expire, so I'll then be asking all about what seats to get then lol. Thankfully the radian xt (wish I had the super latch one) has an 8 year expiration! And omg, I HATE installing the radian...the blvd's are SOOO easy to install

I tried .
As for the BLVD install...you can use LATCH up to 48lbs. Both Britax and Dodge allow it. Using the seat belt, you would use the shoulder belt lock off which isn't the one that snaps down. That's for rear facing. The one for forward facing is like behind her back on the side. You put the shoulder portion of the seat belt through, then turn it upward so it locks. I would use the lockoffs instead of flipping the latchplate. Always use the top tether when available for both LATCH and seat belt installations.

Not to burst your bubble, but even if you had an XTSL, you still couldn't use latch after 48lbs since your car is an 05.

ETA: ok, your seat belts are called "an ELR lap/shoulder belt with a locking latchplate". This means that in a crash, the seat belt will lock. You ever slammed on the brakes and have the seat belt lock on ya? That's the ELR part=emergency locking retractor. The locking latchplate part means that when you buckle it, it's not supposed to become loose. However, your van has a lightweight locking latchplate where it doesn't lock very well. Hence, flipping the latchplate or using the built in lock offs.

The seat belt you had in the rental car is called a switchable retractor. When you pull it out slowly all the way, it will get to the end and then lock in place and you can't pull out any more. These types of seat belts do not have a locking latchplate because the form of locking for a car seat is the retractor. Make sense?

 

[scuby20]

ahhhh, ok I got it now!!! you explain it in laymens terms so I can comprehend ! Sad thing is I'm not stupid but this stuff confuses me sometimes lol....Thank you so much!!

And do you have any tricks on getting a good tight install with the radian xt? And just for future reference, how is it at installing FF'ing?

 

[LISmama810]

I believe the caravan has a locking latchplate. If you can pull the shoulder portion of the seat belt when it's perpendicular but can't when it's parallel, then it's a locking latchplate. However, dodge vans have lightweight locking latchplates and will not secure a car seat properly. We recommend turning the latchplate over, but I'm not sure you can do this with a rider vest.

I just wanted to clarify a couple things.

It's the lap portion of the belt that will either move or stay tight--the shoulder portion will always be moveable (except in a crash or fast jerk).

Also, lightweight locking latchplates are capable of holding a car seat. Sometimes they do need to be flipped, but not always. The way it was phrased made it sound like they're inherently inappropriate. (I don't think that's how you meant it--just wanted to make it clear for others who might be reading.)

 

[ketchupqueen]

And, you don't need to flip a latch plate with a Ride Safer Travel Vest, and I would not, in fact, recommend it. If you need more security, use the tether.

No one has posted this in this thread yet so I'll do it: http://www.carseatsite.com/lockingclips.htm

That's a very clear and informational page on different ways belts lock and when you need to do something to help them along.

 

[HayleyCPST]

I just wanted to clarify a couple things.

It's the lap portion of the belt that will either move or stay tight--the shoulder portion will always be moveable (except in a crash or fast jerk).

Also, lightweight locking latchplates are capable of holding a car seat. Sometimes they do need to be flipped, but not always. The way it was phrased made it sound like they're inherently inappropriate. (I don't think that's how you meant it--just wanted to make it clear for others who might be reading.)

yes thanks for clarifying. Locking latchplates are great for car seats. Sometimes the angle of the base prevents it from locking. In that case we flip it.

No one has posted this in this thread yet so I'll do it: http://www.carseatsite.com/lockingclips.htm

That's a very clear and informational page on different ways belts lock and when you need to do something to help them along.

I posted it in the first post. Scuby, I suggest reading this page as it's very helpful.

 

[urchin_grey]

ahhhh, ok I got it now!!! you explain it in laymens terms so I can comprehend ! Sad thing is I'm not stupid but this stuff confuses me sometimes lol....Thank you so much!!

And do you have any tricks on getting a good tight install with the radian xt? And just for future reference, how is it at installing FF'ing?

I have a Radian in my '03 Grand Caravan. The seatbelt install in the second row is LOADS easier than LATCH! I can have it installed in about 20 seconds and I don't need to flip the latch plate either. What I do is buckle (leaving a good bit of slack), position the seat very upright, and tighten while pushing down where the child's feet would go. Then to get out all the extra slack quickly and easily, I position myself to the side of the seat, prop a foot (or hand) against the belt path, and using the hand nearest the retractor, pull the shoulder belt straight out from the belt path. It honestly takes no time at all once you get used to it and this give you a very solid, upright install.

Oh, and the FF install is a breeze as well. I use the same technique as above and its even quicker.

 

[scuby20]

Awesome, thanks!!! Ya the seatbelt install is tighter than latch for the radian in my van but it still just takes me a while! Lol. I will do what you do and see how it goes. I just line the ROCK SOLID install I get with the BLVD's ff'ing or RF'ing lol. And to reiterate I don't use the vest as an all the time, just vacation. And I do carry the tether with it!

Thanks, you all are the best at advice!!! I would be lost without you all

 

[urchin_grey]

Awesome, thanks!!! Ya the seatbelt install is tighter than latch for the radian in my van but it still just takes me a while! Lol. I will do what you do and see how it goes. I just line the ROCK SOLID install I get with the BLVD's ff'ing or RF'ing lol. And to reiterate I don't use the vest as an all the time, just vacation. And I do carry the tether with it!

Thanks, you all are the best at advice!!! I would be lost without you all

Well if you try the "foot leverage" method, it will be rock solid too, promise. I forget who I got that from, but it was from someone here. Before I was tightening on the buckle side, because that's usually what works best with most seats. Pulling from the retractor side works better in this case though. I guess its just the flat shape of the belt path. You definitely have to pull horizontally though, not up towards the retractor like you would with a belt that locks at the retractor. I my locking latch plates for this reason!

 

[scuby20]

ok I must be doing something wrong, because I can't get it any tighter than I could before.....I'll have to wait until we get to Germany to try again, as the van is being shipped to Germany.

Even in the rental car we have, which has the locking seat belt...I can get it tight at the belt path (less than an inch of movement)...but the back of it (it's installed rear facing) I can still move/lift up on...I just wish it would get as tight as the britax. Maybe it's just me and I'm not doing something properly lol. I HATE the radian lol. It's so hard...and we have put so much weight on it, trying to tighten in (ive been traveling a lot) in various vehicles, the boot is starting to show some wear! I wish I could go out and get the britax's that now go to 40 lbs rear facing, but we already have so much invested in 4 carseats, I can't justify going out and buying more!

I'll give it another try when we get to Germany...Maybe I'll go fiddle with it in the rental car, because it still isn't rock solid in that either (it's a hyundai elantra)

 

[Defrost]

Actually, it sounds just right. Up/down movement at the top of the shell is typical for a RF carseat. The design of the Britax seats, with the nice big base thick shell and RF tether, can often result in an install that doesn't have that up/down movement at the top of the shell, but there's no evidence that that makes it a better install, and it's not required.

It sounds like you're working for "Zen" installs with your carseats (you want to make the carseat "one with the car." ) but there's really no evidence whatsoever that "tighter is better" beyond the one-inch test.

After you install the carseat, you should check for tightness with one hand, placed at the beltpath, and just try to slide it back & forth along the vehicle seat. As long as there is less than an inch of side-to-side movement (and it won't slide front-to-back, either), it's a good install. :thumbsup:

 

[scuby20]

ok, well I guess I'm doing it correctly.....I keep reminding myself everytime I install it that "less than an inch of movement is OK"....you are right about trying to make the car seat "one with the car" lol...I love that analogy! I am just so anal about the installs of the car seats and want to make sure I have it right every time....I just like the little light bulb that goes off in my head when I install a britax, I feel like "ah ha, I got it, it's tight". But I will give up trying to ge that Zen feeling and just know that I AM doing it correctly lol