Calling all car seat advocates!

[Brianna]

I know the bubble bum is 4 years from date of purchase, but offhand I don't know any seats that are good for 12 years. Maybe I'm missing something but I thought the longest expirations are 10 years.

 

[ketchupqueen]

I agree with Jennie that the gotcha factor is too high on this quiz. I think you overestimate what some people will take away from this, and I think that could be dangerous when talking to lay people.

 

[soygurl]

I know the bubble bum is 4 years from date of purchase, but offhand I don't know any seats that are good for 12 years. Maybe I'm missing something but I thought the longest expirations are 10 years.

The Diono Rainier, Pacifica, and Olympia all have a 12 year expiration.

I agree with Jennie that the gotcha factor is too high on this quiz. I think you overestimate what some people will take away from this, and I think that could be dangerous when talking to lay people.

I'm hearing this concern from several people, so I really want to considering it from all angles. Can (or anyone else!) be a little more specific about what you worry that lay people will take away from this?

 

[littleangelfire]

Well....I don't want to be rude but the attitude with which you're going into this, and the resulting quiz, are going to be a major turnoff for the nannies involved which means they'll take away nothing which is contrary to the point. The attitude which is wanting to show people how much they don't know, which honestly translates to people as how much more you know than them

 

[soygurl]

Well....I don't want to be rude but the attitude with which you're going into this, and the resulting quiz, are going to be a major turnoff for the nannies involved which means they'll take away nothing which is contrary to the point. The attitude which is wanting to show people how much they don't know, which honestly translates to people as how much more you know than them

Uh... I don't think you really have a good grasp of what "my attitude" is or is not. However, I'm open to any concrete suggestions you might have.

 

[LISmama810]

I think it would really be better to focus on BASICS with very clearly right and wrong answers. The reason I initially thought this was a quiz for techs (besides not reading the OP closely enough) is that a lot of it is so nuanced.

I'm happy if nannies know to rear-face until 2. I don't need them knowing that a few seats allow kids to have their shoulders above the harness straps.

As for question 9, any of those answers CAN be correct. I'm traveling and can't easily PM right now, but any of those answers are acceptable, assuming that certain other criteria are met. The "correct" answer also isn't necessarily correct 100% of the time.

 

[soygurl]

Would these answers solve the issues with number 9?
9. When is a child ready to move from a 5 point harness to a belt positioning booster?
a. Between the ages of 3-4 if they are at least 30 lbs.
b. As soon as they are 4 years old and 40 lbs.
c. Between the ages of 4-7, depending on the child’s level of maturity.
d. After outgrowing every available harnessed seat.

 

[littleangelfire]

I'd love some examples, because I can't think of one, and I want to know what I'm forgetting!

It's funny, but I was totally thinking of number 9 when you asked before! And I agree that there ARE valid arguments about 6 as well, and I'll be mentioning that when I go over the questions with everyone. Do you disagree about 9 though?

If I was presenting this to parents, I'd probably avoid trick questions too. But these are nannies, and they tend to always think that they know it all, even more than parents! So I'm going to give this quiz first, to wake them up about how much they actually know (or don't)! Then I'll be going over all of the questions in detail.

Thanks for all the feedback!

I'm sorry, but on the contrary you made your intentions/attitude very clear in this post. If you go into instead with, "I want to help, I want to teach, I want to answer questions and help keep kids safe", that's a very different thing. I'm sure as a CPST those ARE your goals, but in this instance posing questions to intentionally trick and make them feel they don't know anything is quite contradictory to those goals. It won't help you with your bigger picture. Make your questions with the real goals in mind, as LISmama said, basics. How long to rear face? How old to use a booster? How old to use a seatbelt? What is a tether? Which is better seatbelt or LATCH?

 

[jennzee]

I'm sorry, but on the contrary you made your intentions/attitude very clear in this post. If you go into instead with, "I want to help, I want to teach, I want to answer questions and help keep kids safe", that's a very different thing. I'm sure as a CPST those ARE your goals, but in this instance posing questions to intentionally trick and make them feel they don't know anything is quite contradictory to those goals. It won't help you with your bigger picture. Make your questions with the real goals in mind, as LISmama said, basics. How long to rear face? How old to use a booster? How old to use a seatbelt? What is a tether? Which is better seatbelt or LATCH?

^^Yes

If you want to stretch their knowledge, maybe throw in a question or two that goes beyond the basics. But the answer options you've put for most of the questions feel very sly, like you're intending to catch them choosing the wrong one, even though it's maybe only slightly off from what is correct.

 

[soygurl]

If you go into instead with, "I want to help, I want to teach, I want to answer questions and help keep kids safe", that's a very different thing.

If I go in with that attitude (the one I use in ALL of my seat checks and other presentations), I will have completely lost my audience from the start. Do you have any suggestions for how I could better overcome that? Because being sincere and sticking to the basics will NOT work with at least 85% of this group.

 

[jennzee]

If I go in with that attitude (the one I use in ALL of my seat checks and other presentations), I will have completely lost my audience from the start. Do you have any suggestions for how I could better overcome that? Because being sincere and sticking to the basics will NOT work with at least 85% of this group.

If they are that that bull-headed, it probably won't matter what kind of attitude you go in with...you won't accomplish much anyway. But I think it's worth it for the 15% that you feel are willing to be teachable to go in with a positive attitude, not the "let me show you how much you don't know" attitude that you think is necessary for this project. If you make them feel stupid, they're going to dig their heels in and you'll get nowhere.

 

[littleangelfire]

If they are that that bull-headed, it probably won't matter what kind of attitude you go in with...you won't accomplish much anyway. But I think it's worth it for the 15% that you feel are willing to be teachable to go in with a positive attitude, not the "let me show you how much you don't know" attitude that you think is necessary for this project. If you make them feel stupid, they're going to dig their heels in and you'll get nowhere.

This exactly. Frankly I assume most of us don't have our audiences hanging on our words at presentations because, well, to most people it's just car seats, just a way to make sure your kid doesn't climb around while you're driving, and you don't get fined. I certainly didn't have much of ny audience's attention when I did one, they were there because I was giving awaya free seat. And I knew that going in. It still pays to present with kindness and a true helpful attitude. Those who don't listen don't listen, nothing you can do. And certainly convincing them how stupid they are about car seats will not make them listen more. It will make them mad and less likely to ever listen to what any CPST has to say because they'll assume we're all out prove them dumb

 

[CMeMeC]

Would these answers solve the issues with number 9?
9. When is a child ready to move from a 5 point harness to a belt positioning booster?
a. Between the ages of 3-4 if they are at least 30 lbs.
b. As soon as they are 4 years old and 40 lbs.
c. Between the ages of 4-7, depending on the child’s level of maturity.
d. After outgrowing every available harnessed seat.

No. I would be confused as to which is "correct?" I know what my state law says (4/40) so should I pick that one? Maturity is so subjective, so is that it? My 7 year old hasn't outgrown every available harnessed seat and is no where close. I feel like I know a lot about proper use and I wouldn't know which to pick. I know which I would do in my car, but I don't know what I am supposed to answer.

 

[Lovatic24]

I thought the quiz was fun. It was not too hard or too easy. I think that #9 should be "When should a child move from a 5 point harness to a belt positioning booster?" That way it is not about laws. Number three should be reworded or changed because it is tricky and is correct and not correct. Otherwise (and I am not a tech) I think all of the answers are straight forward.

 

[soygurl]

If they are that that bull-headed, it probably won't matter what kind of attitude you go in with...you won't accomplish much anyway. But I think it's worth it for the 15% that you feel are willing to be teachable to go in with a positive attitude, not the "let me show you how much you don't know" attitude that you think is necessary for this project. If you make them feel stupid, they're going to dig their heels in and you'll get nowhere.

It's not that they're particularly "bull-headed," it's just that they think that they already KNOW all the basics (and many of them DO). The way I'm looking at it is: if I'm listening to a presentation (about anything), and I think I've already heard it all before, I'm not going to be giving it my full attention, I'll be zoning out, or chatting with my neighbor instead. If I see that NEW information is going to be presented, I'm much more likely to pay attention.
I think also, perhaps the way I envision presenting this quiz is getting lost in translation. It's not a "here, fail test this so you know that I know everything and you know nothing!" kind of thing. It's going to be more like "Hey, we're all awesome nannies here, and most of us in this room probably already have the basics of car seats down pretty well, so let's ramp it up a notch and see how everyone does with these tougher questions! :dance: Then we'll go through it all to make sure we're all on the same page." :jive:
You're all free to disagree with this tactic of course, but I sincerely believe it's the best way to go. I AM however, taking some of the criticism in mind, and rewording questions to make them a bit less difficult and more clear. I'm also going through the results of everyone who has already taken the quiz to see just how difficult it is right now. That way I can adjust it accordingly.

No. I would be confused as to which is "correct?" I know what my state law says (4/40) so should I pick that one? Maturity is so subjective, so is that it? My 7 year old hasn't outgrown every available harnessed seat and is no where close. I feel like I know a lot about proper use and I wouldn't know which to pick. I know which I would do in my car, but I don't know what I am supposed to answer.

Gotcha. I'll try and reword it again. I had thought it was clearly not about the laws (because in law related questions I specify "legally") but I see now how it could still be confusing.

I thought the quiz was fun. It was not too hard or too easy. I think that #9 should be "When should a child move from a 5 point harness to a belt positioning booster?" That way it is not about laws. Number three should be reworded or changed because it is tricky and is correct and not correct. Otherwise (and I am not a tech) I think all of the answers are straightforward.

Thanks! Fun and somewhat challenging is what I'm shooting for. I want #3 to be tricky because I'm hoping to use that question to drive home the point that there is NO "always" in CPS.
For #9, maybe it could say "When can you tell that a child can *safely* move from a 5 pt. harness to a booster?" Is that better or worse?

Again, we might have to agree to disagree on some points, but thank you all for the insight you have provided!

 

[LISmama810]

Would these answers solve the issues with number 9? 9. When is a child ready to move from a 5 point harness to a belt positioning booster? a. Between the ages of 3-4 if they are at least 30 lbs. b. As soon as they are 4 years old and 40 lbs. c. Between the ages of 4-7, depending on the child’s level of maturity. d. After outgrowing every available harnessed seat.

Any of those answers can be safe and correct.

A. If a booster is rated from 30 lbs, and the belt fits the child, and the child is mature enough to sit properly, it can be a safe choice. There ARE 3-year-olds with that kind of maturity. Not most, perhaps, but some. And while it may be ideal to keep them harnessed longer, it's not always possible, and not always unsafe.

B. 4 and 40 is kind of the "mantra." As long as they're 4 and 40 and the seat fits properly, and they're mature enough to sit still, that answer is fine.

C. 4-7 and mature is great, but what if the child is still less than 40 lbs, which is the recommended (and sometimes required) minimum weight?

D. This one is tough, because what does "available" mean? Every seat on the market? Every seat the family can afford? Every seat that can fit in their car? Every seat they already own? And also it can be overkill, because most kids are certainly ready for boosters before they've outgrown every seat on the market. I guess this is the only answer I'd consider "wrong."

 

[soygurl]

I disagree that any 3 year olds are safe in a booster. But it's clear to me that question #9 needs a complete rewrite.

 

[LISmama810]

I disagree that any 3 year olds are safe in a booster. But it's clear to me that question #9 needs a complete rewrite.

If the choice is between an outgrown harness or a booster that fits, booster is the better choice. As a tech, I've had to do it. Not great, but acceptable.

My now-5-year-old is the rare kid who would have sat properly in a booster at 2. I mean, she was still rear-facing then, of course, but my point is that she would have been safe in one at 3 (presuming she met the minimums and the belt fit). Is it as good as rear-facing? No. Is it as safe as a harness, for a kid who can handle it? I don't know, but I can't say with certainty that it's worse.

 

[soygurl]

If the choice is between an outgrown harness or a booster that fits, booster is the better choice. As a tech, I've had to do it. Not great, but acceptable.

My now-5-year-old is the rare kid who would have sat properly in a booster at 2. I mean, she was still rear-facing then, of course, but my point is that she would have been safe in one at 3 (presuming she met the minimums and the belt fit). Is it as good as rear-facing? No. Is it as safe as a harness, for a kid who can handle it? I don't know, but I can't say with certainty that it's worse.

Sure, a boostered 3 year old might be the lesser of two evils in some cases, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to go around saying "3 year olds are safe in boosters."

I also know extremely mature little kids, who listen very well, and do what they're told 99.9% of the time. But even so, they still might fall asleep (and out of position), or simply forget what they were told to do. Maybe your child wouldn't have done either of those things, but again, it's RARE for a child that young to also be mature, and have a long attention span, and never fall asleep in the car. I'm certainly not going to suggest that anyone booster a three year old unless there's absolutely no better option available.

I'm happy with my rewrite (though I suspect you still won't agree). But do you think it's an improvement at least?
9. When should a child move from a 5 point harness to a belt positioning booster?
a. When they are 3 years old and 30 lbs.
b. When they are 4 years old and 40 lbs.
c. Between the ages of 4-7, depending on the child’s size and level of maturity.
d. After outgrowing every harnessed seat available.

 

[LISmama810]

I'm not suggesting you should go around announcing that 3-year-olds are (or can be) safe in boosters. I'm just saying it's not necessarily wrong.

The rewrite is better than before, IMO.