Bus Safety

[libranbutterfly]

Not sure where to post this here. I have also posted this at babycenter and the delphi boards. I'm trying to get as much help with this as possible since it can be difficult to work with the government.

Our Public Transit buses have lap belts, and they have a LBB on each bus for young children. I usually wrap Lexi, and put Kamille in the LBB. (Although they don't care if Lexi is restrained, I have had to feed her before) I know that alot of city buse dont have seatbelts at all, but I was just wondering if the LBB was ok for DD to use, or if she would be safer without it. Seat belt use is required on the bus. It does seem to help the belt stay off her tummy.

Also, DD likes to sit in the sideways seats on the way home every day. Is that ok? I am thinking not, but it is hard to get her to cooperate with a bus full of old ladies giving you the evil eye for taking so long.

Another thing is, do you think a seat like the Triumph, or something similar, would be good for on the bus? I was thinking with the infinate adjust, it would be handy for them to have (b/c not all moms babywear, so usually any kid who cant sit in the LBB is completely unrestrained) Then they could have them safely installed, and just explain how to adjust the harness (and have a large sign on the wall beside it) They will be switching to 25 passenger buses soon, and I am pretty sure they can spare a couple seats so that kids can be safe at that time, so I was thinking I would suggest this to them. LMK what you think!

 

[CandCfam]

You cannot use a booster of any kind w/ a lap belt only, so that isn't safe at all.

Only the Britax Laptop, to the best of my knowledge, could be used with a lap only belt.

Not safe, IMO, to sit sideways on the seat.

If you can get a safety seat on the bus, then that would be safest (but only if it can be assured that they will be used correctly each time), IMO, especially with a lap only belt, as lap only belts are not safe for anyone, and cannot be used with boosters.

 

[Bryana'sMomma]

I live in Minnesota our city buses, school buses(unless special ed) and light rail(train) donot have any seatbelts. So your lucky to have some sort of option.

 

[rowena___.]

Not safe, IMO, to sit sideways on the seat.

i think the original poster was actually referring to sideways-facing seats, not sitting sideways in a front-facing seat.

in nashville, the sideways seats are for people with special needs such as those wearing leg casts or using walkers. our busses don't have any seatbelts except in the handicap rows.

 

[CandCfam]

i think the original poster was actually referring to sideways-facing seats, not sitting sideways in a front-facing seat.

in nashville, the sideways seats are for people with special needs such as those wearing leg casts or using walkers. our busses don't have any seatbelts except in the handicap rows.

Ah, yes, I did misread that.
However, I still stand behind, not safe.
Buses rely, generally, on compartmentalization, and I'm guessing a sideways facing seat does not have any seats in front of it, so you wouldn't be able to compartmentalize a child/adult sitting on a center-facing seat.

 

[mommycat]

Just curious, I do realize lap only belts do not provide nearly enough protection, but everyone keeps saying "lap only belts are not safe" - I would think a lap only belt is a better alternative to NO belt, even if it is a poor choice. And that a booster with the lap only belt would be better than just the lap only belt. Or is this a case where the bad option is worse than no restraint at all?

 

[CandCfam]

Just curious, I do realize lap only belts do not provide nearly enough protection, but everyone keeps saying "lap only belts are not safe" - I would think a lap only belt is a better alternative to NO belt, even if it is a poor choice. And that a booster with the lap only belt would be better than just the lap only belt. Or is this a case where the bad option is worse than no restraint at all?

Booster seats CANNOT be used with a lap only belt.

Internal injuries occur from lap belts.

This link can explain it:
Information on Lap Belts

 

[mommycat]

Booster seats CANNOT be used with a lap only belt.

Internal injuries occur from lap belts.

This link can explain it:
Information on Lap Belts

From your own link, though, I can see that IF you have no harnessed seat available (which obviously would be the best choice), a lap belt is preferable to no belt (well, at least for a child over 5 years old - this may not be true for a younger child...):

The question of fatality reduction effectiveness of rear-seat lap vs. lap/shoulder belts has recently been addressed in an extensive double-pair analysis by Morgan in which children of age 5 through 14 were included and evaluated separately. The conclusions for rear-outboard occupants in this age group are that lap-belted children were 38% less likely to die than unrestrained children, while lap/ shoulder-belted children were less likely by 52%. The lap/shoulder belt was found to reduce fatalities 26% over lap belts alone for children 5 through 14 in all crashes and 31% in frontal crashes, and children derived more relative benefit from the lap/shoulder belt than did the adult groups. Further analysis with supplemental cause of death data indicated that both types of belted children were somewhat more likely to receive abdominal injuries than unrestrained children, but the increase for the adult groups in lap belts was much greater. Finally, both belt systems markedly reduced fatal head injuries, but these were still twice as likely among lap-belted than lap/shoulder-belted children. This study makes it clear that shoulder belt use is very beneficial for older children.

It does say to never use boosters with lap only belts - I guess they are not designed to perform properly with these and could cause more harm than help in such a case?

 

[libranbutterfly]

I knew that they say not to use a booster with a lap belt only, but without a car seat or booster, she has a seat belt going directly across her abdomen. Could the booster be acceptable i this instance since generally she wouldn't have anything? Or should I just try to avoid the bus completely? I have no car right now, and when we do get one fixed, DH will be driving it to work. I would feel much better with her in a 5 pt, and plan to write to the bus company soon. I'm just trying to figure out all the specifics.

 

[mommycat]

http://parentcenter.babycenter.com/expert/preschooler/ptravel/69929.html

Question: How can I use a car seat or booster seat on public transportation?

Answer: In short, you can't. Not yet, anyway. Most forms of public transportation, with the exception of taxis and airplanes, don't have seat belts, so there's nothing to secure a car seat or booster seat. Overall, buses and trains are very safe forms of transportation; because of their bulk and weight, they absorb much of the force of a crash. Still, it can be unnerving to think of bringing your child on a moving vehicle without a protective seat.

If you walk a lot and use public transportation, a combination stroller-car seat that can be used until your child reaches 40 pounds is probably your best option. You can wheel your child around town, then fold up the wheels and keep him in the seat on the bus or train. You won't be able to secure his seat to the bus or train seat, but it will at least keep your child contained and provide some protection in a crash. The combo stroller-car seat is also handy when you take a taxi or drive your car home from the train station, as are travel vests. These are basically the straps and back of a car seat and are lightweight and portable.

Otherwise, whenever you and your child use public transportation, you should hold him securely on your lap, with your back against the bus or train seat and your feet flat on the floor. If he refuses to sit on your lap, let him sit with his back against the seat, and put your arm across his lap to brace him for stops.

http://www.spinecarefoundation.org/spinalhealth/seat_belts.html
(Australian - but still gives an idea of importance)

Booster seats are designed for use with a three-point, lap-sash belt. Use with a lap belt is not only dangerous; it is illegal.

I found a lot of sources which kept repeating over and over - do NOT use boosters with lap only belts.

 

[mommycat]

BTW, would a travel vest be an option in this case, or do these all require a top tether? I know next to nothing about them.

 

[scatterbunny]

Using a lapbelt-only is safer than not being restrained at all, definitely. However, using a lapbelt-only with a booster is not safer than using only the lapbelt. Yes, it brings the lapbelt lower on the belly, possibly limiting/preventing internal injuries, but it also raises the child's center of gravity much higher, so the entire upper body will fly forward farther=more head excursion, more chance of spinal cord injury.

In a lapbelt, with nothing restraining the upper body, it's safest to sit flat on the vehicle seat and try to keep the belt as low as possible.

I am not familiar with travel vests, but I do believe they require top tethers.

Statistically, buses are some of the safest vehicles on the road. I try not to worry when I have to use public transportation (buses and light rail/trains).

 

[libranbutterfly]

So I should not use the booster at all, just have her sliding around in the seatbelt? I could take a carseat when we go to the grocery, as I could leave it on the bus and take the same bus back home (I would buy a scenera for this, if she is still ok heightwise in it) but on other trips it's hard to figure out how long I'll be, so I would have to take it in with me. Also I would feel weird putting Kamille in a full car seat and not Lexi. I hope they get the bigger buses soon, and would be willing to buy a couple of carseats with infinite adjust. What would some good ones be? Something easy to adjust with a pretty good range of height, and not too expensive. It just seems strange to me that they require seatbelts, but nothing else for babies esp. Right now there are only 2 sets of mom's with kids that ride, so maybe they haven't really given i too much thought.