Booster on school bus for 4-year-old

[Elee]

A lap-only belt is not safe for anyone at any time. It is especially unsafe for a small child, because the belt is likely to ride high on the belly. In a crash, thousands of pounds of force will be directed into the soft tissues of the abdomen. This is "seatbelt syndrome" and it can be fatal. Riding in a lap-only belt is not an option that should even be on the table here.

OMG, it really sounds unsafe... but WHAT DO PEOPLE DO? Do you all have your children in harnessed seats on school busses, or just make the commitment to drive them to/fro school daily in your own car? Until they're how old? From what you described, it's not safe for a 15-year-old! The E-Z-ON Cam and the SafeGuard Star sound great but yes, they're expensive! I'm going to consider them but I don't see most parents and/or most schools, even private schools, being wiling to spend the extra dough on them.

I don't want to be that weird mom who "over-protects" her child... you know -- the poor kid that gets covered head-to-toe w/ SPF 50 wear on every school field trip while all the other kids are running free... I think most school busses are lap-belt only, right? If I think he might rebel at sitting in a harnessed seat now at age 4.5, wait 'til he's 6, or 8, or 12! At least the E-Z-ON Cam is just extra belting w/ no seats, maybe that would be a good choice for now. But once he's in public school next year, would they even allow me to keep that on the bus so that he can use it daily? Sometimes they're on different busses morning and afternoon, so I'd have to buy two!

What do you all do for your own kids? It sounds like a lot to do that most people don't do at all... Should I just shrug and let him on the bus just like all the other kids his age? I remember another thread on this forum about how safe school busses are and how rarely they get into accidents...

 

[carseatcoach]

Most full-size school busses have no belts. Although it feels counterintuitive, for school-age kids, being on a big yellow bus without any seatbelts at all is eight times safer than being in a passenger car. My daughter rides a big yellow bus to school every day and I'm perfectly fine with it.

If the big yellow bus was not an option, she'd be harnessed on a small bus or in my car.

 

[ketchupqueen]

Well, on LARGE school buses most of us feel that once kids are about the size of an average 1st grader, compartmentalization provides adequate protection in most crashes (there are always exceptions.) However the small buses are just not something I'd let my child ride on without either a harness, or a lap-shoulder belt (with booster if needed.)

 

[Elee]

So a small yellow school bus is considered LESS SAFE than a large yellow school bus? I DID NOT KNOW THAT! The bus looks very similar to the big ones inside, just smaller, w/ seating for 2 on one side and 3 on the other side. I don't know what the total capacity is... probably 20 or so? It has 4 windows on the side after the door. How big is big enough for the protection of "compartmentalization"? I think that the public school district also uses this type of small school bus for grade-schoolers, so we will encounter this issue for several years to come!

So the consensus of this expert forum is that I really MUST buy some kind of harnessed seat for him on the bus? That it's not a safe option to go lap only?

DH thought I was being overly cautious by post this question on the forum this morning... We thought that lap-belt only on the bus was considered safe!
I let him ride w/ lap belt alone for 5 months last semester. The school said that's what they ALL do, so I didn't think much of it at the time...

 

[ketchupqueen]

Right. I believe the threshold for a "large" vs. "small" bus is 10,000 lbs. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) Some large buses have lap belts, but it's safer not to wear them than to wear them. Small buses are required to have seatbelts, but most only have lap belts, and the ONLY safe choice for lap-only belts on these buses is to use a harness with them (there are also Y-harnesses by EZ-On that are designed for buses to use with lap-only belts-- these might be a more affordable option for you AND for the school to consider installing for all riders, they are MUCH cheaper than retrofitting shoulder belts on a small bus, and extremely safe.) The small buses are not desgined for protection by compartmentalization like the large buses are.

 

[carseatcoach]

What you really need to find out is if the small bus is built to school bus standards (compartmentalization, triple-walled construction, etc.), or if it's just a big van painted yellow. If the small bus is built to school bus standards, then the child will be safe without any belt. If it is not built to school bus standards, then he should be harnessed or transported in another vehicle.

 

[Elee]

Some large buses have lap belts, but it's safer not to wear them than to wear them.

Did I read this right? It's safer NOT to wear a seat belt than to wear one?? How can that be?!

 

[mrs_teeee67]

Did I read this right? It's safer NOT to wear a seat belt than to wear one?? How can that be?!

only if they're lap belt only... not for should/lap belt combos

It puts all the pressure on the 'organs' in the soft belly

 

[Elee]

Wow, I'm so glad I came on this forum today... This thread is turning my whole viewpoint UPSIDE-DOWN! :dizzy:

 

[ketchupqueen]

Small buses are not required to be built to compartmentalization standards. If they are, though, it's safer to not wear the lap-only belt. Large buses MUST be. It is safer to let compartmentalization (reinforced, closely spaced bus seat backs designed to absorb and help dissipate the forces of the crash over the whole body) do its job rather than subject the child's body to being bent in half over the lap-only belt and possibly have internal injuries from it sliding up, as well as head injuries from jackknifing into the seat in front.

If lap-shoulder belts are available, yes, a properly fitted lap-shoulder belt is safest, as long as all occupants are wearing them (so that there are not some children unrestrained flying around being projectiles to the ones trapped in place by the belts.)

 

[thepeach80]

My boys go to a private school and they use a small bus for field trips, holds 20 people maybe. AJ has always used a harnessed seat on that bus b/c it's lap belts only. Evan will do the same this year, not sure what we're going to do w/ AJ as he's too big for the Nautilus and probably too big for the RN, but the babysitter might have a RN for him to borrow that doesn't have wings like ours. The first link on the other page looked good, I wonder if that would work on his bus? That would be a lot easier than having to install 2 seats every time they get on the bus. I know I drive the school nuts!

 

[Elee]

The first link on the other page looked good, I wonder if that would work on his bus?

What's that?

 

[ketchupqueen]

The EZ-On Cam-wrap Y Harness.

In my special needs class I just took, during the schoolbus section, we heard a report of something that happened in a nearby district, an incident in which the short bus full of preschoolers was involved in a serious crash with a semi and another large vehicle. Luckily the children were all in this type of harness instead of using the lap-only belts alone, and while the driver of the bus was seriously injured, none of the children was even transported to the hospital, despite the front of the bus being ripped off and it being turned on its side.

 

[mrs_teeee67]

The EZ-On Cam-wrap Y Harness.

In my special needs class I just took, during the schoolbus section, we heard a report of something that happened in a nearby district, an incident in which the short bus full of preschoolers was involved in a serious crash with a semi and another large vehicle. Luckily the children were all in this type of harness instead of using the lap-only belts alone, and while the driver of the bus was seriously injured, none of the children was even transported to the hospital, despite the front of the bus being ripped off and it being turned on its side.

I'm IMPRESSED that someone/entity took the effort and paid the price to ensure the safety by using those!! AWESOME story!

 

[Patriot201]

What's that?

The first link I linked above:

One choice- http://www.easywaysafetyservices.com/gpage13.html

 

[Elee]

In my special needs class I just took, during the schoolbus section, we heard a report of something that happened in a nearby district, an incident in which the short bus full of preschoolers was involved in a serious crash with a semi and another large vehicle. Luckily the children were all in this type of harness instead of using the lap-only belts alone, and while the driver of the bus was seriously injured, none of the children was even transported to the hospital, despite the front of the bus being ripped off and it being turned on its side.

That's an amazing story! I learn so much from this forum! You guys (or gals...) may have saved my son's life!

I'm definitely going to buy something for my son... Do you think that the E-Z-ON Cam or the Safeguard Star is as good OR better than the regular older child seats (like Maestro, Nautilus, etc.) on the bus? I guess the Maestro is the probably best value here since it can be potentially be used in other vehicles... As I see it, the main benefit of the E-Z-ON Cam is that it has no seat part, so it looks like just a seat belt, which might be less "embarrassing" for the child. What's the data on these specialty items since they're fairly new or less commonly used? So, taking the price consideration aside, which would you choose? (I need to make a decision pretty quickly, as school will start soon!)

 

[Maedze]

I'd like to clarify that statements about lap belts and being unrestrained at all are really limited to specific kinds of public transportation.

If you are a private vehicle neither a lap belt NOR being unrestrained is an acceptable option.

 

[ketchupqueen]

That's an amazing story! I learn so much from this forum! You guys (or gals...) may have saved my son's life!

I'm definitely going to buy something for my son... Do you think that the E-Z-ON Cam or the Safeguard Star is as good OR better than the regular older child seats (like Maestro, Nautilus, etc.) on the bus? I guess the Maestro is the probably best value here since it can be potentially be used in other vehicles... As I see it, the main benefit of the E-Z-ON Cam is that it has no seat part, so it looks like just a seat belt, which might be less "embarrassing" for the child. What's the data on these specialty items since they're fairly new or less commonly used? So, taking the price consideration aside, which would you choose? (I need to make a decision pretty quickly, as school will start soon!)

It probably depends on the bus. One thing to take into consideration is that harnessed conventional seats, like the Maestro, are designed to meet a different standard when tethered than when untethered, and heads going further forward in a crash is allowed when untethered. In small buses there is a wide variation in width between rows of seats. If there is plenty of room, an untethered conventional seat may be just fine. If the rows are smaller, bus-specific seats that attach with a cam wrap are designed specifically for these close quarters to further limit head excursion without the use of a tether.

(If there is an empty seat available behind the Maestro, you can tether to a lap belt. But that eliminates that seating position, which some schools can't handle due to a full bus.)

So, I'd say it depends on the specifics of the bus whether the cam wrap-attached seats are as safe, or safer. EITHER ONE is much safer than a lap-only belt alone.

 

[Jan06twinmom]

If I think he might rebel at sitting in a harnessed seat now at age 4.5, wait 'til he's 6, or 8, or 12!

What does your son ride in your own vehicle? I'm not sure why a 4.5 would complain about being in a harnessed car seat on a bus if you just tell him that you found out this would make him safe in case there was an accident.

I have twins who are 5y7m (starting K tomorrow) and they've only ever ridden in a harness car seat in a car. When we've traveled, they have been in public transportation without a car seat, but they've never complained about going back in their harnessed car seat when we got back to our car.

Melanie

 

[ketchupqueen]

*nods* My 6 1/2 year old goes back and forth between harness and booster; she actually asks to use a harness when she's tired or knows she'll have trouble sitting properly. My 4 1/2 year old has never been in a booster, and knows she won't get one until she's 6. They know the rules are there to keep them safe, and I think they'd rebel if I tried to put them in just a seatbelt, lol. There's going to have to be a lot of careful explaination before I let them ride a plane without a harnessed seat! I think if you explain that you have learned that this is the way to be safe, and teach him those rules, he'll probably be happy to be safe. Heck, he may even cause enough of an uproar the other kids will want to be harnessed too. (I heard of one kid who, when her peers asked why she still rode in a "baby seat," referring to her high-backed booster, replied, "Because my mom loves me and doesn't want me to die if we get in a crash.")