Belt and LATCH together -- bad?

[MommyG]

My local tech says that you should either secure the car seats with a seatbelt or LATCH but not both.

But, since I don't have top tethers (2002 Ody) what's the downside of using both means to secure the seat....? Especially when I have to latch the belt behind the seat anyway to avoid the seatbelt's choking hazard potential.

Thanks in advance for your :twocents:

 

[unityco]

Your local tech is right - you cannot use both systems together. Carseats have not been tested to withstand the force of being held by both. They are designed to expect some belt stretching so that they would ride with the child in the event of a crash. When you use both systems, you are submitting the seats to untested forces that turn your child into a crash test dummy.

Also LATCH is not any safer than seatbelts, so if you're worried about having the the unbuckled seatbelt near your child, you could just use it to attach the carseat (assuming you get a good install,) and forgo the LATCH entirely. Honda does only have a 40lb limit to LATCH, so you'll probably have to install your carseat with a seatbelt eventually anyway.

You can also have top tethers added to your van for added safety.

I hope that explains the rationale behind NOT using both seatbelts and LATCH together!

 

[MommyG]

Also LATCH is not any safer than seatbelts,

Thanks so much for the for the answer....but with respect to this point quoted...

I just watched the Miller video.....what about seatbelt failure that they describe?

Is that not a concern?

Thanks!

 

[Starlight]

Seatbelt failure really should be the least of your concerns.

It happens, but it really doesn't happen *that* often, if you are using your seats correctly.

Additionally, LATCH can only be used to 40 lbs in a Honda, so for your bigger kids, it isn't an option. Your seatbelts are rated for much higher weights.

 

[unityco]

Seatbelt failure is very rare, and LATCH can fail too (but that is also rare.) LATCH and seatbelt are both very safe ways to install carseats.

There is a sticky about the Miller Family video here: http://car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=8619&highlight=official+youtube

That might answer your questions more fully!

HTH!

 

[Jeanum]

Ditto to the previous poster. Also, the 2002 Ody already has factory equipped top tether anchors in the second row (under each second row seat attached to the floor per the LATCH manual) and the third row center (in back wall under tailgate sill). :thumbsup: You can retrofit additional top tether anchors for the third row outboard positions in the tailgate sill. The retrofit tether anchor part number is 82410-SE3-C01, called a plate assembly, from a Honda dealership for about $13 each, or possibly online for slightly less if you do a google search for the part number. There are two 8mm weld nuts in the tailgate sill, and the Ody owner's manual probably has instructions about installing the additional anchors if you're handy with a torque wrench.

Also have a look at Safety Belt Safe USA's response to the Kyle Miller Youtube video with an outline of best practice for child restraints, LATCH and tethering, and some reassuring stats about the relative rarity of seatbelt failure: http://www.carseat.org/Resources/650_YouTube.pdf

 

[Starlight]

Seatbelt failure is very rare, and LATCH can fail too (but that is also rare.) LATCH and seatbelt are both very safe ways to install carseats.

There is a sticky about the Miller Family video here: http://car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=8619&highlight=official+youtube

That might answer your questions more fully!

HTH!

Oooh, you found the sticky! I was trying, but I couldn't!!!

 

[unityco]

Oooh, you found the sticky! I was trying, but I couldn't!!!

Thanks! It doesn't seem to be stickied anymore though :scratcheshead:

 

[wendytthomas]

If you have LATCH you have top tethers. That's what the T in LATCH stands for. You cannot use the lower anchors without the upper tether.

The PP is right. The seatbelt and LATCH are each designed to stretch up to 20% in a collision. That's to slow down the stoppage. Same thing with the harness, though that doesn't come into play here at all. If you use both then NEITHER may stretch, transferring the forces to the plastic of the shell and the harness holding in your child.

It's like watching a fly ball in baseball with two people running toward one another. "I've got it!" yells one. "I've got it!" yells the other. In the end the ball is laying on the grass. NOT what you want to have happen with your child.

Wendy

 

[jen_nah]

If you have LATCH you have top tethers. That's what the T in LATCH stands for. You cannot use the lower anchors without the upper tether.

Wendy,

Thank you for catching that. I was just about to post the samething but glad someone caught it.

 

[ThreeBeans]

Just wanted to confirm: Any seat with lower anchors also has top tethers. Consult your vehicle manual for their location

As others have said, no, you cannot use lower anchors and a seatbelt together.

 

[TechnoGranola]

You cannot use the lower anchors without the upper tether.

Except for in a RF installation, correct? RF installs often use the lower anchors without the top tether as most RF seat don't tether, and if they do, you often tether to a different location.

 

[MommyG]

Also have a look at Safety Belt Safe USA's response to the Kyle Miller Youtube video with an outline of best practice for child restraints, LATCH and tethering, and some reassuring stats about the relative rarity of seatbelt failure: http://www.carseat.org/Resources/650_YouTube.pdf

Thank you so much for all the replies and thanks especially for this link.

I saw the link to the video here and questioned some of it, but didn't think to search for an evaluation of it.

Thanks again!

 

[wendytthomas]

Except for in a RF installation, correct? RF installs often use the lower anchors without the top tether as most RF seat don't tether, and if they do, you often tether to a different location.

Right.

Wendy

 

[azgirl71]

I have done an install in a 02 Oddy. Each captains chair has lower anchors and the top tether is on the bottom back of the seat cushion on each seat.It is hard ro find, but it is there. There is also a top tether anchor in the center postion in the 3rd row. It is located in the cargo area right in front of the liftgate. If you look in your owners manual it has all this information and diagrams. The 3rd row TA can be moved outboard and it tells you how to do this in the manual.

 

[Guest]

I dunno what happened to my posts, but I found basically no redeeming value to that video. I'm a lawyer and used to crap science litigation attorneys can spit out (and no, I'm not a defense attorney who automatically slams anything from the plaintiffs' side). That video could have come straight from the office of an ambulance chaser.

 

[TXAggieTech]

cause I'm an idiot

 

[MommyG]

I dunno what happened to my posts, but I found basically no redeeming value to that video. I'm a lawyer and used to crap science litigation attorneys can spit out (and no, I'm not a defense attorney who automatically slams anything from the plaintiffs' side). That video could have come straight from the office of an ambulance chaser.

Do you meant he Miller video?

And I found my anchor ports, everyone. I read all the manuals thoroughly again..thanks so much!

 

[azgirl71]

Do you meant he Miller video?

And I found my anchor ports, everyone. I read all the manuals thoroughly again..thanks so much!

I think she does mean the KDM video. I am glad you found the TA's. I know the ones on the captains chairs are not easy to find. :thumbsup: for reading your manuals again .