Baby Capsule Install Angle / Stabilizing Bar

[daisyflower]

I am trying to install a Safety 1st OneSafe baby capsule in to a Hyundai Tucson (in Australia).

Based on the way the rear car seats slope, without any packing/towels etc under the capsule base, the angle of recline would be approx 55 degrees (from horizontal) so slightly too upright. I anticipate if left like this when I put my baby in it (once born) his head will go fall forward onto his chest, or it will be unsafe etc.

The manufacturers manual says that the angle of the seat should be no greater than 40 degrees from the horizontal plane, and to place towel or similar objects between the seat and base to achieve this.

The capsule base also features a stabilizing bar, which is basically a U shaped metal bar that the manual says is supposed to rest up against the back of the car seat.

What my question is, if I am to achieve the 40 degree angle of the capsule/baby, I have to pack underneath it with towels (I'm actually going to buy pool noodles). To get the capsule in the right angle, means that the stabilizing bar will no longer rest up against the back of the seat, but rather be 2-3 inches gap.

Is it safe to have the stabilising bar not touching the rear seat? Is it safe not having the seat at 40 degree angle so the baby is slightly more upright than the manufacturer recommends?

How can I solve this, seems like a catch-22.

Pics below:

 

[QuassEE]

Acknowledging that I have not read the manual for your specific seat, I can give you some general advice that you can go back to your child restraint manual with and see if you can figure out the answers to your questions.

Firstly--when you adjust the recline of the seat with a towel or pool noodles, you're only doing so right at the seat bight. That's the area where the back of the seat and the bottom of the seat join, where the seatbelt stalk (female portion) comes out from. From the look of your seat, one tightly rolled towel or a single pool noodle stuffed into that space should be sufficient. You do not want towels anywhere under the back (towards the front of the vehicle) or middle of the base.

Some rebound bars adjust or move so they snug up to the seatback. From the looks of your photos, this might not be the case with your seat? {Check your manual.} If your rebound bar doesn't adjust to snug up with the seatback, it will strike the vehicle during rebound but will still provide some protection. If the manufacturer doesn't explicitly disallow the gap, and there's no way to adjust the bar, then you might have to assume it is acceptable, or contact the seat manufacturer. Sometimes looking at the pictures on the side of the seat or in the manual can help.

As for the angle--it sounds like the manufacturer is allowing for a wider range of angles than just 45 degrees. We use 45 degrees for newborns here because it provides the maximum protection of both airway and child's body. If a newborn is more upright than 45 degrees, there is some risk that their airway could become blocked because their muscles have not yet developed enough to lift their heads and re-open their airway. Usually we recommend installing a seat more upright once a child is around 4-6 months old, but not at the newborn stage. You should also be careful not to over-recline the seat, as this can compromise your child's safety in the event of a crash.

I'm in Canada, so I'm just trying to give you some general advice based on what we do here. If, after re-reading the manual, you're still unclear on anything it might be best to contact the child restraint manufacturer.

-N.

 

[snowbird25ca]

I'm going to bump your post in case somebody familiar with this seat is coming by.

I notice that they're measuring the angle from the horizontal plane which is the opposite of how most manufacturers do it in North America. To translate for anybody who may have had trouble with the math, the manufacturer is telling you that the seat must be installed no more upright than 50* measured from vertical which is more reclined than what North American seats typically are.

I have the same difficulty as Quassee - being that I'm in North America I am not familiar with your seat at all, but I want to second what she said regarding the towel normally only sitting underneath the base at the very back of the vehicle seat - the place where the seat crease is or where the back and bum parts meet up. I suspect given the desire for such a recline, and since it looks like the towels you're using aren't super thick, that you may still need more than one towel - if that's the case, try laying 2 towels on top of each other and rolling them together, then placing them underneath the foot of the base by the vehicle seat bite.

I'm not familiar with the rebound bar on that seat, but one tip that you can try is standing behind the base - at the edge of the vehicle seat, and then using your knees to push the base in to the vehicle seat back. I know that the one seat we have with an anti-rebound bar here in Canada typically makes way more contact with the vehicle seat back when you push the base that direction while tightening the seatbelt. I've seen it move from being barely in contact to being half in contact using that method, so it's definitely worth a try. It may also assist with getting the seat installed at a greater recline. :thumbsup:

Hope this helps a little bit. It would be very much appreciated if you would be willing to update the thread when you figure it out - that way if someone else comes along with the same problem in the future they will be able to see what your solution was. Unfortunately there isn't much in the way of tech resources in Australia, so the sharing of information from one parent to another is even more valuable in cases like this. :thumbsup:

 

[daisyflower]

Thanks for the help thus far. It is certainly a challenging thing.

I rang the manufacturer (IGC Dorel/Safety 1st) - they said that the stabilising bar should be sitting up against the back seat. Told them the situation and they said the bar can't be adjusted or bent or anything like that, and the only suggestion they could give me was go to a child restraint fitting station.

In the photo I had 2 thick towels rolled up at the seat bight, but then noticed there was a gap underneath the middle of the base so thought I should put a small towel in there to fill it so the base was at least sitting on something making contact and not just having the bit closest to the rear seat back touching the towels, and the bit at the other end touching the end of the seat. (or is that acceptable for there to be a part in the middle of the base which does not touch anything)?

(I have actually had the thing installed by a professional installer who was hopeless, had the thing at the complete wrong angle and told me all the wrong info, which is why I am trying to learn and get this installed properly myself before then taking it for a 2nd opinion).

 

[QuassEE]

From looking at the photo and the design of the seat--it seems that in order for the bar to rest on the seatback, the seat will be too upright...? Definitely try Trudy's suggestion on tightening it down. I think a pool noodle is probably the better option, and then try to jam the seat downwards and push it inwards towards the seatback. Don't worry about any small gaps along the bottom of the base. Try those adjustments and then post another photo?

What province are you in? Perhaps someone here can help locate an alternate fitting station.

-N.

 

[daisyflower]

yep, if the bar rests against the seat, it is too upright (35 degrees from vertical).

I have installed the base again, in the centre (because the centre seat has slightly more padding in the backrest so the gap of the stabilizing/anti-rebound bar is a little less).

A thought I had, could I put a towel (as in the pic) between the rear seat backrest and the stabilizing bar to fill the gap? It isn't putting any pressure on the base or helping the base with its position, merely just acting as a spacer/gap filler between the seat back and the bar. From what I have read is that the angle of the seat is much more important than the stabilizing bar because a newborn sitting in an incorrect angle seat could have breathing problems if his head can't be held up etc, whereas the anti-rebound bar would only be of any use if there actually was an accident.

The other idea I had was that the centre seat has an armrest built in to it, which is in a perfect spot that I could potentially unfold the arm rest 10%, it would then rest directly against the stabilizing bar, and I could then fill in the gap behind the armrest so it stayed folded out 10% supporting the stabilizing bar, obviously filling it with foam or pool noodle or something sturdy but not dangerous enough to become a projectile.

Or, I could just leave the bar alone and let it sit out the 2 odd inches from the rear seat back.

I tried your ideas of squishing the base back toward the rear seat back to try and get the stabilising bar closer, but the seat padding is far too hard and I can't get it any closer. I did manage to get the capsule base fastened in as tight as possible with the seat belts, given my car has really long buckle stalks, I twisted the female connector 3 times around to make it shorter. I know they do this a lot in America but the few people I've asked in Australia say its a big no no...personally I would rather the capsule be anchored in to the seat tight and not move around 4 inches each way by having a loose seat belt (but that is an entirely separate issue to this topic!)

I have changed the install to just have 1 x thick towel rolled up underneath the capsule base in the seat bight.

 

[snowbird25ca]

I'm looking at those pictures, and it's impossible for that recline bar to really be in contact with the seatback in any vehicle based on how it's recessed on the base. There's just simply no way it's going to be in contact when the seat is reclined properly unless it can move forward towards the seat back?

I wouldn't put a towel between the rebound bar and the vehicle seat back - the towel isn't going to do anything in a collision and it's just making you "think" it's closer to touching.

Likewise, I wouldn't open up the armrest at all.

Is there a way to adjust the rebound bar at all? It just doesn't make sense to me how they can expect the rebound bar to push against the vehicle seatback when the base is installed given how it is not right on the edge of the base itself...

 

[daisyflower]

snowbird - I think you are entirely right. It must be something to do with the design of the thing. Which is strange because this baby capsule is apparently the best you can buy in Australia, it is the ONLY capsule on the market which got a 5 star safety rating, and is the safest capsule available.

I rang the manufacturer and also closely examined the base myself to check for any means of adjusting the rebound bar, but there aren't any.

To me it seems far more important to have the capsule at the right recline angle, so the trade off is going to have to be that the rebound bar is unable to touch the rear seatback and will have a gap there. I just hope that this does not affect the seats safety and reduce the safety rating of the seat in the event of an accident meaning it may have been more beneficial for me to buy a 4 star capsule which was designed in a different way to prevent this from happening ?

Thanks so much for everyone's input.

I will still take the car to be checked by a professional installer next week or so and report any further feedback.

 

[QuassEE]

You're correct that the angle being reclined enough to maintain airway is more important than risking things by having an upright seat and the rebound bar touching. The rebound bar provides additional protection after the majority of the crash event (and energy transfer) has already happened. It's just that we cannot officially tell you anything one way or the other, because we're not Australian technicians nor are we familiar with the specific seat you have.

-N.