Doctor's note for FF before a year

RJB78 · Jul 22, 2008

I am the tech at the distribution site in town. I was looking over the paperwork for upcoming appts, and I happened across this one - a mother with a 9 month old who is 20 lbs and height is listed as "long." Under special notes, the said, "Baby is extremely long; getting doctor's note to forward face."

Can't wait for this one!

Techs, what would you do if you had a parent come in with a doctor's note to FF before a year? Luckily I don't have a seat that FF before 22 lbs, so I can't do it, but even if I did, there's no way I would put a 9 month old FF. Would I be obligated by the state (they provide the seats for the site, I volunteer there - it's not like I'm a paid employee)?

Patriot201 · Jul 22, 2008

Hmmm... unless that child is so long that he/she has outgrown every single seat on the market and there is no safe way to RF, there is no way I would turn a 9-month-old FF. I can't see how that would be possible, though. The Radian has a super-tall shell, the TrueFit has a super-tall shell, and I think a few other seats do too.

I think I would explain to the parent that FF is not safe at such a young age. I would push pretty hard on this one. If you get serious resistance, I think I would FF the child in a tethered seat with as much protection as possible.

I'm not a tech, though. That is just my personal opinion.

Mommy2Marcus · Jul 22, 2008

I know I am not a tech, but I thought I would answer anyways!

I would just share with her the information on RF, but I like you deffinatly would NOT put a 9 month old FF. It really is not legal anyways...no matter what the Dr says, nor is it safe in ANY way as physics do not change for the Dr...I know you know that, was just saying it!

I also know that no matter what length the baby is there is NO WAY that baby is to big to RF at 20lbs. I hope that she will see that she needs to keep her baby RF & keep him/her that way to the limits!

Please let us know how it goes! I would LOVE to hear what is said!

RJB78 · Jul 22, 2008

Patriot201 said:
The Radian has a super-tall shell, the TrueFit has a super-tall shell, and I think a few other seats do too.

I agree - My dd2 was 36" at 24 months and fit length wise GREAT in the RN (too heavy though). However, these are low income families, so what they get is what I can give them - a Scenera.

I HIGHLY doubt this baby is too tall to RF. I am very interested to see what seat the baby is in now and how she fits in it.

mamaofthree · Jul 22, 2008

I'm doubting they will even have the doctor's note. They prob just want their child to be FF, and are hoping if they say they are getting a note that you will go ahead and install it FF. If the child is only 20 lbs, they can't be all that tall right? I mean, if the weight was super heavy AND they were long, it is more believable that the kid is just abnormally huge and possibly can't RF. But a 20 lber, no way. I'm curious to hear the story on this one unfold. Keep us posted!

Kimberly

Judi · Jul 22, 2008

Let us know how it goes!

Wife&MomX3 · Jul 22, 2008

A doctor's note to break the law? Thas a new one! I dont C how come any doctor would think they have the authority to do such a thing, nor have I ever seen a 9 mon old less than an inch from the top of a Scenera. My kids were/are in the 90th percentile or higher for height and werent close to outgrowing RF @ 9 mons old. Please update us on this giant baby after the install!

wendytthomas · Jul 22, 2008

Is it legal? In NC that would be illegal. You must use an appropriate restraint, and with that going against instructions it's not appropriate, ergo illegal.

Can you bring in crash test videos? I think some of the good ones are on youtube. Maybe show them that?

Otherwise, yes, if they insist then they will leave with the seat forward facing. During the check for my class one of the instructors let a car leave with a forward facing 11 month old because the parents refused to turn the child back rear facing. So she made sure that 11 month old was as safe as could be, made note in the paperwork that the parents were going against the manufacturer, that the risks had been explained to them, and then had them sign it. The parents have the final say, though.

Wendy

snowbird25ca · Jul 22, 2008

RJB78 said:
I agree - My dd2 was 36" at 24 months and fit length wise GREAT in the RN (too heavy though). However, these are low income families, so what they get is what I can give them - a Scenera.

I HIGHLY doubt this baby is too tall to RF. I am very interested to see what seat the baby is in now and how she fits in it.

Yeah, maybe it's a case of baby having outgrown the carrier, and the dr. figuring if he/she writes a note then the parent can be given a combo seat?

I'm 99% sure in saying there's no way that a 20lb 9mo old is going to have outgrown the Scenera rf'ing - my ds had a very tall torso at that age, but he'd still have fit in the scenera then and he probably would still - it has a pretty high shell doesn't it?

Whatever the case may be, I absolutely wouldn't install the seat ff'ing. As you already know, it's both unsafe and improper use to use it ff'ing with a child so young. And it would be both illegal and a giant liability risk on top of that. I guess for a really adamant parent I would point out the top tether and point out the ff'ing belt path for future use, but the child would leave the check rf'ing.

I'm hoping that it's just a really uneducated dr. and a parent who took one look at the legs and asked questions. Otherwise it could be difficult dealing with parents who are dead set on ff'ing a 9mo old... I can hear the argument now of "but the dr. said" *sigh*

I think it's going to be a tough position to be in. I'm lucky that I've never had parents really challenge me hard on turning their 1lb under the weight limit kids back rf'ing. I've just always stated as fact after getting their age and weight that we have to turn the seat back rf'ing and while there are questions and sometimes an initial protest, I've never had a parent refuse to do it. None of them have ever arrived with dr.'s note in hand though either...

(On the flip side, since it says "getting dr.'s note" maybe the dr. won't write a note to ff early and will actually tell the parent he/she has to wait until 1yr. You can hope anyways.)

Does the state program have any kind of rules/law about kids having to use the seat correctly in order to receive the free seat?

HEVY · Jul 23, 2008

I was wondering, people are supposed to report child abuse/neglect and endangerment and it's not just health officials. A person can get in trouble if witnessing any of this and not reporting it, the problem is getting caught.
But wouldn't this fall under child endangerment especially if it's against the law. I know if the child if over age and height limits there's not much you could do (well it could still be reported, it doesn't have to be illegal to make a report, just proof that the child would be better off in another situation) but if the parent is breaking the law and you are aware of it aren't you obligated to report it. I mean Safekids doesn't want to scare people away, it would be for those who are breaking the law only. Those people who want to move their kids forward earlier usually have researched it and is why they claim to have Doc notes or are getting one. They don't care about the stats and videos, they feel it's not going to happen to their kids and there's nothing you can do. So I would think there would be a legal obligation to report them.

murphydog77 · Jul 23, 2008

Mommy2Marcus said:
It really is not legal anyways

That's really not a valid argument in all states. For example, in my state, there's no law requiring a child to be rear-facing to age 1. Telling someone that it's not legal may come back to bite you when they bother to do the research (I know, why bother to research *that* instead of researching rf). :twocents:

I think the notation of a "doctor's note" is chuckle-worthy

. Just as doctors must hold ethical and liability standards, so must we. Turning a child before age 1 and 20 lbs. is a proven dangerous practice and it puts the technician in a dangerous spot liability-wise, doctor's note or not. Heh, I'd probably write a note back to the doctor explaining why I'm not turning the child forward.

Sceason1972 · Jul 23, 2008

Don't Dorel seats have a 34inch rule for ff as well. That would have to be one very tall 9 month old to meet that requirement.

wendytthomas · Jul 23, 2008

They do.

I like Heather's idea best. Send a note back. hehe Ideally with a link to the article in the journal Pediatrics and the AAP recommendations. I'd love to see how red his face would get reading that!! LOL

Wendy

Gypsy · Jul 23, 2008

I would flat out refuse.

"I refuse to do anything that puts your baby's life at risk, 1 year and 20 pounds is the absolute minimum I can turn a child forward facing, but kids should stay rear facing until they outgrow a rear facing convertible seat by height or weight - your baby hasn't outgrown the Scenera by height or weight, she still has 15 pounds and several inches of hard shell above her head, and because she still safely fits rear facing, I don't understand why you have a note from a doctor"

Wineaux · Jul 23, 2008

I'd call the Dr. and get him/her on the phone at the seat check. Hold their feet to the fire!

*Spoiledinmyhouseofblue* · Jul 23, 2008

I am not a tech, but wanted to say I would call the doctor and tell him all the benefits of RF and whatnot.

Also, my friend's sister was told to turn her 25 pound, 10 month old FF(she had a doctors note that she kept in her car at all time). I tried telling her it was not safe and what not. he was only 29 inches, so could so fit FF.
I said, then tell me why your doctor said he would fit in no carseat RF, but my son at the time was 28 pounds, 3 years old RF? Her face was like

!!!

pastrygirl · Jul 23, 2008

Mommy2Marcus said:
I would just share with her the information on RF, but I like you deffinatly would NOT put a 9 month old RF.

Heh, I think you mean FF there...

brooklynsmommy · Jul 23, 2008

If it's a proper use state, going against the 1 and 20 (and the 34 inch dorel rule) would be illegal. I went and did a little looking a while ago on the 34 inch vs the percentile chart. A child in the 90+ percentile for height wouldn't reach 34 inches until 18 months!! There is absolutely no way this baby can forward face in the Scenera. This is the one time when I say way to go Dorel. Most kids (50th%) won't reach 34 inches until their second birthday.

Judi · Jul 23, 2008

I don't know of a seat that allows a child under one to FF anyway, none that aren't expired atleast. Am I missing one?

CTPDMom · Jul 23, 2008

Fight fire with fire. If it's the 'Dr.' who is saying ff'ing is necessary then counter with a copy of the AAP recommendations (be sure to note that AAP has been recommending ERF since at least 2002) and the March 2008 reiteration of their recommendations in the AAP Magazine as someone else suggested. I'd even offer to call and speak to the Dr. myself.

Doctor's note for FF before a year

CPST Instructor

Car-Seat.org Ambassador

New member

CPST Instructor

New member

CPST/Firefighter

New member

Admin - CPST Instructor

Moderator - CPST Instructor

New member

Admin - CPST Instructor

New member

Admin - CPST Instructor

Senior Community Member

New member

New member

New member

Active member

CPST/Firefighter

Ambassador - CPS Technician

Car-Seat.Org Facebook Group

Sponsors

Forum statistics