safest car for third-row occupants?

pollysmommy

New member
My husband and I are having a "discussion." I want a minivan. He wants a Suburban or an H2. :eek:

He's pulled up a Ford Motors crash statistic saying that the fatality rate for a third row seat with less than three feet of crush room, in ANY rear end collision, is 50%. Whaa?

So he says only the huge SUVs like Suburbans or Hummers are safe, if you have enough kids to be putting some into the third row regularly. The only reason that mid size SUVs and minivans get good safety ratings, he says, is that the third row is always empty for most families, and because they don't test for rear end accidents. I realize that they are also rare, but a 50% fatality rate??? Ack!

He's not buying the minivan vs. SUV average safety statistics I keep pulling up, trying to convince him to go for an Ody. He says they only apply to families who don't use the third row. Since third rows are only used 1-2% of the time, the avg. stats reflect that. If you have enough kids to be using your third row every day, he argues, you need to look at the safety statistics for third row occupancy as much as the other rows.

So if we are going to be putting some of our kids into the third row regularly, how can we research and make a list of the safest types of vehicles? Are there "safer" vehicles for kids in the third row?

Thanks. I keep saying he'll have to drive a Hummer over my dead body, but if it's true that only the monster mobiles are safe for families with a pile of kids, I guess I'll suck it up.

Edit: I should add that we are currently stationed in the crap-ass middle of nowhere with a ton of snow, so my husband wants something he can put a plow on the front of. I say we should buy a beater pickup for plowing instead.
 
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ADS

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
You can pick and choose isolated evidence to support any point of view. Honestly, from what you've written, I'm not sure there is anything you could produce that would sway him from what he wants to buy.

At the very least, make sure whatever you buy has side curtain airbags (that extend to the third row!), stability control and decent crash test ratings in the IIHS and NHTSA frontal and side impact crash tests. These types of crashes are far more common and severe than rear impacts and claim many more lives, too.

Large, truck-based models often have inferior handling and braking compared to car-based SUVs and minivans, so be sure to take an extended test drive and make sure you feel confident behind the wheel if you will be the daily driver.

Incidentally, I don't think they sell Humvees outside of the military anymore. Basically, you are getting a dressed up Suburban or other GMC chassis and paying a premium for the Hummer badge. I'm sure the models vary more than a Tahoe vs. Yukon, for example, but none are anywhere close to the original Humvee.
 

pollysmommy

New member
Thank you! So you would personally put a child into the middle of a third row over the outboard position of a second row? I think our oldest child may be taking her driver's license test before she outgrows her 5 point harness, so it sounds like that would offer some additional protection from a rear end accident.

Very helpful. It was that USA Today article that got him concerned in the first place.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Thank you! So you would personally put a child into the middle of a third row over the outboard position of a second row?

It really depends on the child seat and the vehicle. I think that is a reasonable choice in general, though.

The vast majority of vehicles today are very safe, particularly when equipped with side curtain airbags and stability control. Also, any rear seating position is fine, provided the child/restraint fits properly there and it is not otherwise prohibited by the owners manual(s).

Far, far more important than the choice among seating positions, among new vehicles and among child restraints is that you keep all occupants properly restrained and drive unimpaired and undistracted. Those things will reduce the risk of injuries and fatalities by a significant amount. Other factors may improve safety, but to a much lesser degree.

As of today, my DD is 7 and in a Safeguard Seat in the outboard of the second row of our minivan. My 2 year old is in a Britax Expressway ISOFIX in the other outboard seat and my 8 year old son is in a Jane Indy Plus booster in the center of the third row. I don't have any issues with any seating position in our minivan and have used them all at one time or another.

I think truck-based SUV models like the new Yukon are huge improvements over SUVs from even 5 years ago. I'd have no problems with my kids riding in one daily. I happened to think a minivan was somewhat safer overall than the other options available when I purchased. I also liked the seating flexibility and sliding doors;-) For larger car-based SUVs, you might also checkout the Ford Freestyle (now the Taurus X) and the Saturn Outlook.
 

pollysmommy

New member
I know, the sliding doors! That's the number one reason I want a minivan!

If you lived in a ton of rural snow, would you feel comfortable with one of the newer SUVs, then? I have no experience driving in bad weather but that's one of my husband's arguments in favor of an SUV.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
If I was rural with lots of snow and unplowed roads, at minimum I would want AWD and a good set of snow tires.

Not all SUV systems are created equal in their AWD systems. They can vary widely as far as how much power can be transferred to each wheel, how quickly and with speed limitations. Some might get stuck if only 2 wheels lose traction, while others require all 4 wheels to lose traction before they are stuck. It can be hard to compare these based on manufacturer information, but you can usually find it with enough research. 4WD models with locking differentials and "Lo" settings may not be as user friendly but are usually up to the task.
 

pollysmommy

New member
Yikes, stuck in the snow! I can see this is a whole nother area of research I need to do.

Thanks again! Great info and you've been very helpful. I'm subbed to this thread, so will be very grateful if anyone has any additional thoughts on the matter of third rows vs. safety vs. snow vs. everything else!
 

crunchierthanthou

New member
The data I've seen says H2 only seats 6. Almost all others in it's suv class seat 8. Also, the 3rd row in the H2/Tahoe/Yukon really isn't any farther from the back window than in mini-vans.
 

amy919

New member
I don't mean to derail your post here, but I have to admit, I've wondered about this as well.

When we went shopping for my new car last year, I knew I wanted a 3rd row. I researched and researched, but I couldn't find any good, concrete information on the safety of 3rd row seats.

So I went with my own instincts (not recommending them, I am NOT an expert by any means!) and the things I looked for were adjustable head rests, LATCH and tether points and the amount of space between the back seat and the rear door.

My BIL just bought a Highlander and it makes me so nervous just because I feel like the 3rd seat is SO close the back of the car. I feel like there's practically no room between me and the rear of the car. I hate their kids in the 3rd row and can't even think about the possibilty of them being rear ended.
 

jen_nah

CPST Instructor
I own a Tahoe and I love it but I very rarely put a child in the 3rd row. I wouldn't be as concerned as long as they are properly restrained.

If you are needing a 7 or 8 passenger vehicle I would scratch the H2 off the list. None of the Hummers have an optional 3rd row. I would look at the Suburban/Yukon XL. There is also the new GMC Acadia/Saturn Outlook/Buick Enclave. It has 3 rows of seating plus ample cargo space between the 3rd row & the rear of the vehicle. Also if he needs the ability to tow it can out tow any minivan by almost 1000 lbs. Plus 5 star crash ratings on front & side & 4 star on roll over (which is exactly the same as the Ody & Sienna). Has all the side curtain that Darren spoke about in the above post.
 

TXDani

Senior Community Member
Just adding another point on the H2 the optional third row is only 1 seating position. The spare tire is on one side and then there is a 1 passanger optional third row seat.
 

FirstTimeDaddy

New member
Most of the mid-size SUVs with optional 3rd row seats have very limited space behind the 3rd row. This is especially true with some popular Japanese ones (Pilot, Highlander, MDX, CX-9,Tribeca ..).

Check out this re-designed 2007 MDX with highest rating for frontal/side impact safety. I am sure you would agree with why I wouldn't want to seat in those seats in the event of a rear-end crash, let alone letting my child sitting in there.

IMG_0733.jpg
 

FirstTimeDaddy

New member
At the very least, make sure whatever you buy has side curtain airbags (that extend to the third row!), stability control and decent crash test ratings in the IIHS and NHTSA frontal and side impact crash tests. These types of crashes are far more common and severe than rear impacts and claim many more lives, too.

One of the few agreements that both me and my wife reached on this topic is that one's worst frontal impact crash often can be the wrost rear-end impact crash for the vehile ahead.... :cool:
 

TXDani

Senior Community Member
Most of the mid-size SUVs with optional 3rd row seats have very limited space behind the 3rd row. This is especially true with some popular Japanese ones (Pilot, Highlander, MDX, CX-9,Tribeca ..).

Check out this re-designed 2007 MDX with highest rating for frontal/side impact safety. I am sure you would agree with why I wouldn't want to seat in those seats in the event of a rear-end crash, let alone letting my child sitting in there.

IMG_0733.jpg


I am 100% comfortable with my children riding in the third row of my 2007 MDX (same one as pictured). It looks awful close to the rear hatch in that picture but that pic does not tell the whole story. The headrest in those seats extend up high and they do come very close to the rear hatch...but only the back of them(they are a wide, open design). The actual seat is a lot farther from the hatch then the top of the headrests...what you are seeing in that picture. For example when my third row is up I can still fit a double maclaren and a P3 behind the seat. I really don't see that much difference in distance from the hatch as in my Sienna...granted the MDX has less space behind the seat but not that much less to make it significantly more un-safe.
 
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SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
I am 100% comfortable with my children riding in the third row of my 2007 MDX (same one as pictured). It looks awful close to the rear hatch in that picture but that pic does not tell the whole story. The headrest in those seats extend up high and they do come very close to the rear hatch...but only the back of them(they are a wide, open design). The actual seat is a lot farther from the hatch then the top of the headrests...what you are seeing in that picture. For example when my third row is up I can still fit a double maclaren and a P3 behind the seat. I really don't see that much difference in distance from the hatch as in my Sienna...granted the MDX has less space behind the seat but not that much less to make it significantly more un-safe.

I agree. What you really need to know is if the crush space and seat back + head restraint protect the occupants. Without crash testing or applicable injury data, there's just no way to compare.

Length of a crush space alone is not necessarily a great predictor for crash performance unless you know all else is equal. Take something like the Chrysler LHS from 5-10 years ago. A poor IIHS frontal offset rating and a 3-star NHTSA frontal rating, despite being a full size model with a fairly long front end. Some people buy large cars assuming they are the safest, but it isn't always the case. In general, there is a trend but without any relevant data it's impossible to say any particular model is safe or unsafe.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
One of the few agreements that both me and my wife reached on this topic is that one's worst frontal impact crash often can be the wrost rear-end impact crash for the vehile ahead.... :cool:

True, but they are still much less frequent and the statistics do account for this. A front-to-rear crash is counted only once as a rear-end crash event. A front-to-front head on crash is counted once as a frontal crash event (either full-width or offset).
 

Gypsy

Senior Community Member
I have a 2006 Kia Sedona, it's really awesome! It has LATCH in 4 positions and tether anchors in 5.

I am from Ohio and every year, at the first snow we would go practice in an icy parking lot making "donuts" and getting a good feel for how to properly handle the car on ice.

When I got my Kia and it snowed I did the same thing, but the problem was I COULDN'T get it to slide AT ALL. It's amazing!

It also has front and rear crumple zones & is a breeze to install carseats in, even the Regent with the recline bar and short belt path! I think a mom with a lot of CPS knowledge and a big family designed it! You can fairly easily fit three across in the back seat making it possible to install 5 seats in the 2nd and 3rd rows -- many minivans just don't have that room.
 

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