who sits in the front (in Canada)?

Pixelated · Jun 9, 2012

I've been pondering the various criteria for deciding who sits in the front if a situation called for it, and I'm looking for help thinking this out. I don't think the answer is necessarily the same in the US because of our requirement for top tethering a FF harnessed seat. Please weigh in.

So my choices are:

Oldest RF-er if airbag can be deactivated (this one's easy).

Oldest FF harnessed seat IF the seat can be temporary tethered or IF there is a designated TA point. Slide front seat all the way back whether there's an airbag or not. Argument for this option: the child is harnessed and therefore can't be out of position when the airbag deploys. Against: child is younger (probably) and therefore less skeletal development.

Oldest boostered child, with seat slid as far back as possible without compromising belt fit. Argument for this option: being on a booster elevates the child to better ride out the air bag deployment, and more skeletal development than a harnessed child (based on age). Against: more likely to be out of position.

Oldest 5-stepping child, with seat slid as far back as possible without compromising belt fit. Argument for this option: older child has more skeletal development. Against: more likely to be out of position.

What am I missing, and what would sway your decision one way or another?

QuassEE · Jun 9, 2012

Dual stage airbags or no.

Pixelated · Jun 9, 2012

QuassEE said:
Dual stage airbags or no.

Elaborate please...I think I know how that would affect my decision, but I await your detailed explanation

QuassEE · Jun 9, 2012

Well, it's one variable that you were "missing"... It would definitely factor into my decision-making process for some of those options. Something else I'd consider an option would be to put the 5-stepping child back into a backless booster if you needed that front seat.

Fortunately I have teenagers.

-N.

Shanora · Jun 10, 2012

my choice would be the 5 stepping child in the front seat. But then again thats where my 12 year old has been sitting for the last year or 2.

bubbaray · Jun 10, 2012

I would put the oldest child in front, either 5 stepping or in a LBB. This is what I do in my own vehicle. I've never had a problem with the older kids being out of position.

Nimommyof2 · Jun 10, 2012

whats a dual stage airbag? I'm not a tech but I've always done oldest biggest child. My van now thankfully shuts the airbag off with weight so all but the largest 8yr old who is the size of a 12yr old the airbag shuts off for.

VanIsleMommy · Jun 10, 2012

it also depends on the vehicle.. my equinox, while I don't believe I can deactivate the airbag, I can slide the bench seat back and the front seat so far back it's practically in the back and I wouldn't have an issue with a harnessed or boostered child in that seat. in a compact car my thoughts would be different. or what about trucks... there is no way I would put a seat belted child in the back seat with a glass window and no headrest.

krissybear25 · Jun 11, 2012

I'm not a tech. Personally I would put the RF child in the front with the airbag turned off. Only if the airbag had a switch to turn it off and not sensors. Or if there was no airbag at all. My husbands commute car has no airbag and we put my RFing son up there

Pixelated · Jun 11, 2012

krissybear25 said:
I'm not a tech. Personally I would put the RF child in the front with the airbag turned off. Only if the airbag had a switch to turn it off and not sensors. Or if there was no airbag at all. My husbands commute car has no airbag and we put my RFing son up there

That's why that choice is the easy one

That's what I would do too, if I could de-activate the air bag and someone had to go in the front.

April · Jun 12, 2012

Practically speaking, when an airbag cannot be disabled, I always choose oldest 5 stepper, followed by oldest (or most mature) in a lbb. Kids who normally ride in a hbb, go in a lbb in the front (further from the airbag). Any kid who goes in the front with me gets a stern talking to about staying in position. I actually have a dedicated TA for my front passenger seat, but I've never put a harnessed seat on it. It is very very rare when I will transport a kid in the front (emergency situations), and if I had an extra harnessed kid, I'd move one of my biggest to the front in a backless and keep the harnessed kid in the back. I like far back from the airbag more than I like harnessed I guess, because they don't move out of position in the front seat with me. If there wasn't a kid mature enough to get that, then oldest harnessed in the front, but in my experience, most kids are pretty good about staying in position in front of an airbag by about age 8.
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mommycat · Jun 12, 2012

If I had a dedicated tether anchor for that front seat I would be putting the oldest FF harness with tether up there. Head excursion is lower with the tether while untethered harnessed seats are tested to the same head excursion limit as a booster. So lower head excursion would probably win out for me, still with the seat moved back. Though if there was a 5 stepping child they may go up instead since they would be the closest to the design criteria of an adult in terms of proportions.

April · Jun 12, 2012

mommycat said:
If I had a dedicated tether anchor for that front seat I would be putting the oldest FF harness with tether up there. Head excursion is lower with the tether while untethered harnessed seats are tested to the same head excursion limit as a booster. So lower head excursion would probably win out for me, still with the seat moved back. Though if there was a 5 stepping child they may go up instead since they would be the closest to the design criteria of an adult in terms of proportions.

What if the seat had to be uninstalled and reinstalled frequently? Not picking a fight, just curious as to your opinion. Say, Dad has to drop kids off at daycare, then uninstall the seat to take an adult to work, then pick up the kids from daycare and reinstall the seat.
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mommycat · Jun 12, 2012

It would depend partly on how difficult the install was, lol! For an easily transferred seat that osnt such a big deal but for some cases the giant PITA might outweigh the risk of pitting a boostered kid in front instead If there was a booster in the back one could of course take the booster out and have the adult sit in the back, though I realize that many (most) people would find that exceedingly odd. If it was a real issue for the adult to sit in back (eg physical constraints) then you would be back to the booster in front option. And of course it is very easy to theorize and another thing altogether to live with the situation, so the answer might change with experience.

Misty-Bug · Jun 13, 2012

Nimommyof2 said:
whats a dual stage airbag? I'm not a tech but I've always done oldest biggest child. My van now thankfully shuts the airbag off with weight so all but the largest 8yr old who is the size of a 12yr old the airbag shuts off for.

I have heard that a child should not be in the front until at least driving age. The airbags can come out at 300kms a hour. A BELIEVE a dual stage airbag is one that comes out slow then fast filling. The thing with the airbag sensors is that it may not always work on a younger child. I wouldn't put an 8 year old in the front.

krissybear25 said:
I'm not a tech. Personally I would put the RF child in the front with the airbag turned off. Only if the airbag had a switch to turn it off and not sensors. Or if there was no airbag at all. My husbands commute car has no airbag and we put my RFing son up there

I still worry about the drivers side airbag coming out and possibly hitting the sides of the RFing seat. I personally am not a fan of RFing up front at all. I prefer the oldest child in a LBB pushed back as far as possible.

QuassEE · Jun 13, 2012

Really, the only seat that's going to be within the frontal airbag deployment zone of another seating position would be the front centre seat--generally this is only a concern with pick-up trucks

-Nicole.

mommycat · Jun 13, 2012

This explain dual and multistage airbags nicely:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3qsDE8z06M&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]Understanding the multi-stage air bag system.flv - YouTube[/ame]

This also looked promising but i cant seem to open the Smart Airbag section on the iPod. Everything you might want to know about airbags, if the name is anything to go by:
http://airbagcenter.com/airbag_terminology.aspx

April · Jun 14, 2012

mommycat said:
It would depend partly on how difficult the install was, lol! For an easily transferred seat that osnt such a big deal but for some cases the giant PITA might outweigh the risk of pitting a boostered kid in front instead If there was a booster in the back one could of course take the booster out and have the adult sit in the back, though I realize that many (most) people would find that exceedingly odd. If it was a real issue for the adult to sit in back (eg physical constraints) then you would be back to the booster in front option. And of course it is very easy to theorize and another thing altogether to live with the situation, so the answer might change with experience.

Okay, 4 kids, 2 boostered, 2 ff harnessed. Lapbelt only in the rear centre seat. NO adjustable headrests in the back so an adult would have glass for headsupport. Giant subwoofer box on the floor of the entire rear seating area level with rear vehicle seat height, so sitting crosslegged is the only option.

Driver must transport all 4 kids to/from daycare 5 days a week and after dropping kids off in the morning has to pick up two adults other than himself.

We did that for a year and it was a no brainer for me. Backless in the front for one booster rider.
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mommycat · Jun 14, 2012

Ouch! Yeah when you add in all those other factors I would not be moving a harnessed seat around in the front. Wow.

April · Jun 14, 2012

mommycat said:
Ouch! Yeah when you add in all those other factors I would not be moving a harnessed seat around in the front. Wow.

Yeah, some times reality differs from ideal, kwim? Thanks for your opinion. Its always nice to hear what other techs think about a difficult situation. Luckily, I have SAH for the last two years so this is no longer an issue.
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who sits in the front (in Canada)?

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