We will be purchasing a new mini van in 2012 to make room for baby #3. Our 2007 CRV is feeling cramped with two kids, so we're thinking we'll need more space. I assumed we'd get a 2012 Odyssey because it's so highly ranked safety wise, and I've heard it's a good pick for three under three (all RFing). However, my hubby suggested we buy an American made van to save money. He also thinks the parts will be cheaper down the road. So...does that mean Chrysler T & C? Or is there something better? What is the best/safest American made van? I need something that's going to work well with an infant, 1 and 2 year old -- all RFing. Or should we just pay a little more and go with the Odyssey? Or even a Sienna? We have several months to do our research, but I would appreciate any input you think is beneficial. Thanks!
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Choosing a new 2012 Mini Van
- Thread starter AmyDyan
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rxmommy
New member
I would get an Odyssey. 
But I adore mine. Had a Mercury (Ford) minivan and hated it. I have no experience with T&Cs, but he's right that the parts are probably cheaper. You'll have warranty for a long time on the Ody, though.
I would not get a 2012 Sienna. The 8-seater (which with 3 kids I wouldn't go with less than an 8-seater, but that's just me) is not 3-across friendly like the Odyssey. You could likely put all 3 kids RF in an Odyssey in the 2nd row, which may just be the ideal why to have 3 small children in a van.
But I adore mine. Had a Mercury (Ford) minivan and hated it. I have no experience with T&Cs, but he's right that the parts are probably cheaper. You'll have warranty for a long time on the Ody, though.I would not get a 2012 Sienna. The 8-seater (which with 3 kids I wouldn't go with less than an 8-seater, but that's just me) is not 3-across friendly like the Odyssey. You could likely put all 3 kids RF in an Odyssey in the 2nd row, which may just be the ideal why to have 3 small children in a van.
livsmum said:
Can you tell me specifically what about it you don't like? My husband was all excited about the stow and go seats, but with 3 RFing car seats, I don't think we'll be taking advantage of that feature very often. I really just want the Odyssey, but I have to convince the other half.
luckyclov
New member
I saw that earlier today and my jaw dropped. That is HUGE news for Dodge/Chrysler/VW. Good for them.
However, unless the interior seating and seatbelts have been redesigned from 2008-2010 & 2011 models, it still wouldn't be high on my consideration list.
OP, most "non-American" minivans are actually pretty American when you break down just how much was essembled in the U.S.
We have long preferred to buy "American" vehicles and I drive a Toyota.
We were just recently in the same boat as you. We have a 2003 CR-V with 3 kids across and just bought a 2011 Honda Odyssey. We also looked at the Toyota Sienna. Actually, the Toyota was really nice feeling very roomy to walk through the centre aisle to the 3rd row. In the end, it was about the car seat options and where the tethers and latches were located. My oldest son also preferred to be with his brothers rather than on his own. We now have 3 across in the 2nd row of the Odyssey and room to fold down the 3rd row if we would like to do so. I figure as they get older and get big, they may decide to spread out more and we will have the room to do so. I sat in the 3rd row when we were trying and was really happy with the leg room in that row so I think we could comfortable put adults back there when needed. I do look forward to the day when my 10 year old will not booster anymore giving us better access to the 3rd row but really, we don't go back there a lot fully using the 2nd row.
I'd absolutely get the Ody- it's fantastic for families with young kids, lots of flexibility in car seat installs now and later, including if you have friends along for them in a couple of years. Add in the safety ratings, and the convenience features? If I had the budget for a 2012 vehicle, the Ody would be my pick.
Add in the safety ratings, and the convenience features? If I had the budget for a 2012 vehicle, the Ody would be my pick. Honestly, I hate the interior. I looked at an '11 2 months ago and to me it still looks so cheap - although it's an improvement over previous years. Due to the middle captain's chairs completely folding into the floor, they're thin and I can't imagine them being comfortable over a long journey. Same for the back seats. But then again, you'd have carseats in the middle seats so it's probably a moot point. Another thing I didn't like, there's only one top tether in the very back seats.
HOWEVER, in the base model you're going to get many extras you wouldn't find in a base model Toyota or Honda. That wasn't enough to seal the deal for me though. I ended up getting a 2009 Toyota Sienna LE, 7 passenger and I love it. The seats are way plusher I think. And there are 2 top tethers in the back row.
I think it's just a better vehicle all around, doesn't look cheap and tinny.
And like a PP, I was surprised at the top safety pick rating.
If you're wanting 3-across, your only option is a 2011 or newer Odyssey or a 2010 or older Sienna. I'd take an older Sienna.
HOWEVER, in the base model you're going to get many extras you wouldn't find in a base model Toyota or Honda. That wasn't enough to seal the deal for me though. I ended up getting a 2009 Toyota Sienna LE, 7 passenger and I love it. The seats are way plusher I think. And there are 2 top tethers in the back row.
I think it's just a better vehicle all around, doesn't look cheap and tinny.
And like a PP, I was surprised at the top safety pick rating.
If you're wanting 3-across, your only option is a 2011 or newer Odyssey or a 2010 or older Sienna. I'd take an older Sienna.
canadiangie
New member
If I was buying a 2012 van, I'd get the Oddy, hands down, no question about it.
I would not even consider a Sienna because Toyota lost their minds in 2011 with measly tether anchor offerings and silly placement.
I wouldn't consider a Chrysler because of poor resale value and again, measly tether anchor offerings and silly placement.
I would consider the Kia Sedona, but it scored lower in recent IIHS findings, and you're not going to have the option to do 3 across your 2nd row which I'd want (read: demand) if I was a mom with there RF kiddos. Good job on having 3 RF kiddos, by the way.
So yeah, Oddy, all the way.
I would not even consider a Sienna because Toyota lost their minds in 2011 with measly tether anchor offerings and silly placement.
I wouldn't consider a Chrysler because of poor resale value and again, measly tether anchor offerings and silly placement.
I would consider the Kia Sedona, but it scored lower in recent IIHS findings, and you're not going to have the option to do 3 across your 2nd row which I'd want (read: demand) if I was a mom with there RF kiddos. Good job on having 3 RF kiddos, by the way.
So yeah, Oddy, all the way.
luckyclov
New member
I wouldn't automatically rule the Sienna out based on that alone. While an extra TTA in the 3rd row would be nice, not every family requires a litter of LATCH positions. Especially those with children who are near the end of harnessed seat days (as mine are).
It's important to remember what YOUR family's individual needs (and wants/comfort zones) are when car shopping and not to fall into everyone else's opinion of perfection. If I hadn't of stayed true to what MY family's needs were, I would have come with an Ody. And I would have (yet again) ended up with a vehicle that wasn't a good fit for us (says the woman whose been through 4 vehicles in 6 years).
Now, that said, my previous vehicle was a 2009 Dodge Grand Caravan. It was fine when we had 2 kids. But when we needed to use the 3r row is when we ran into huge issues. It was a nightmare on gas. The rear seats/seat belts are NOT child friendly. The captain's chairs are do-able (very sloped, but manageable), but the 3rd row is ridiculously ridiculous. There was only one TTA in the 3rd row, center, which could be used with the off-set lower anchors or the center seatbelt. The center seatbelt, however, was an ELR, and a PITB for any sort of child seat installations (think...locking clip).
QuassEE
Moderator - CPST Instructor
The new Sienna seems cheap to me..I also hate the 8th seat width.
As far as American parts being cheaper--YUP, absolutely. They're cheaper..but when your vehicle requires 2 or 3x as many repairs, it really becomes a moot point. I've had two Odysseys and never had anything major go wrong with them. Same goes for my old Sienna. Of course, I only keep my cars for around 3 years...
There's also another issue: Seeing as you have a newer Honda as it is, and you'll be selling it (I assume) to buy a new car--resale value. When you drive off the lot in the Odyssey versus the Caravan, you're losing less of it's value. I'd only consider a domestic newer used car, because someone else has already lost their shirt on it driving it off the lot... With the across-the-board exception of British vehicles, imports retain their value better. Period!
-Nicole.
As far as American parts being cheaper--YUP, absolutely. They're cheaper..but when your vehicle requires 2 or 3x as many repairs, it really becomes a moot point. I've had two Odysseys and never had anything major go wrong with them. Same goes for my old Sienna. Of course, I only keep my cars for around 3 years...
There's also another issue: Seeing as you have a newer Honda as it is, and you'll be selling it (I assume) to buy a new car--resale value. When you drive off the lot in the Odyssey versus the Caravan, you're losing less of it's value. I'd only consider a domestic newer used car, because someone else has already lost their shirt on it driving it off the lot... With the across-the-board exception of British vehicles, imports retain their value better. Period!
-Nicole.
emntheboys
New member
Ehh, I'd steer clear of the Chrysler. My Grandpa has had two brand new ones in the past two years. The first one was a 2010 which he ended up having for about 6 months. He traded it in because it was mysteriously using oil- like he'd go to change it and it would be really low, but he never noticed anything leaking. He knew he'd have major engine problems in the future, so he traded it for a 2011 Limited model. The 2011 has had all sorts of weird electrical problems and he's come out to a dead van 3 times now. Not what you would expect from a $35,000+ vehicle....
I too thought the redesigned Sienna was cheap. Too much like the Dodge/Chrysler interiors. And what's with those sloped seats???
luckyclov
New member
I didn't even dignify the appearance of the interior dash materials of the Sienna on my pro/con list just as I didn't the exterior appearance of the Ody (which I think is hideous). What it came down to for ME was how well the seating and seatbelts fit myself (a petite woman) and my children, now and a few years from now. Comfort of each family member mattered. Brakes and tires and how well the vehicle handled on roads, different kinds of roads, in downpours mattered. How well *I* felt in control of the vehicle mattered. Cargo space mattered. Ceiling height/roofline mattered (I have a 9 y/o in a HBB in the 3rd row).
canadiangie
New member
I think the new Oddy *looks* like a nightmare. That I agree with.
But in terms of CR's it's just vastly superior. Numerous blog posts on this board and elsewhere support these claims, and since this is a car seat board where number of TA's and lower anchors are taken pretty seriously, it's no surprise the Oddy is considered a better choice. And of course I'm biased in this department because top tethering is non negotiable here. Imagine spending 40k on a family hauler and not being able to legally install two harnessed seats in your 3rd row. Holy crap, no thank you.
I'll take the Honda. (Honda pilot, that is. I hate vans. Lmbo)
He wants to buy American but wants a Canadian built car? Whereas the Odyssey is only built in America, has FAR better resale, is a LOT bigger inside, and is easily the top minivan on the market (with the Sienna getting some votes as the only competition)...
And I dunno how he thinks parts are cheaper? They're all expensive and parts get much cheaper if you don't buy straight from the dealer's parts dept.
His ideas and actual reality are pretty far apart. You can tell him that 30 years have gone by and it's not the 80s anymore. Or, you can tell him you'd rather not buy an Italian-Canadian car (Fiat owns Chrysler now) and just go for the American one.
And I dunno how he thinks parts are cheaper? They're all expensive and parts get much cheaper if you don't buy straight from the dealer's parts dept.
His ideas and actual reality are pretty far apart. You can tell him that 30 years have gone by and it's not the 80s anymore. Or, you can tell him you'd rather not buy an Italian-Canadian car (Fiat owns Chrysler now) and just go for the American one.
luckyclov
New member
For a family with multiple harnessed children, and who may need 6 useable rear seats, I agree - the Ody is the better option. For a family that has older/growing children nearing the end of their harnessed seat days, or seats in general, I think the Sienna is better option. My oldest had NO room left to grow in his HBB in any of the 3 seating positions of the Ody's 3rd row. Since he wasn't ready to be in a backless fulltime (his choice), that was a major drawback. In the center of the 3rd row, he still had 1-2 clicks left to grow in his PWSG. He was closer to 5-stepping in the 3rd row of the Sienna. And, the seatbelt (shoulder belt specifically) and headrest were a better fit for him (he complained about the Ody's headrests), in a backless, outboard, in the 3rd row of the Sienna. Even if I had a 4th child, the Sienna will still suit us very well with no issues. Now, if I had twins...that would be an issue, yes.I think the new Oddy *looks* like a nightmare. That I agree with.
But in terms of CR's it's just vastly superior. Numerous blog posts on this board and elsewhere support these claims, and since this is a car seat board where number of TA's and lower anchors are taken pretty seriously, it's no surprise the Oddy is considered a better choice. And of course I'm biased in this department because top tethering is non negotiable here. Imagine spending 40k on a family hauler and not being able to legally install two harnessed seats in your 3rd row. Holy crap, no thank you.
(Honda pilot, that is. I hate vans. Lmbo)
On a separate note, our stuff fit better in the cargo of the Sienna. There's more cargo room in the Sienna. Spec wise, I think it's something like an inch more, but it's the layout. Logical or not, I do not want any of my everyday (camp chairs, strollers, soccer goal, etc) cargo touching the 3rd row seatback...which, in the Ody, it did. In the Sienna, it all leveled off just under the bottom of the seatback.
daniele_ut
New member
If I had an unlimited budget and didn't need to worry at all about costs, I'd probably have chosen a 2012 Ody, but the reality of our life is that we need to be really budget conscious and we couldn't afford to spend $35,000 a van.
We just bought a 2010 Dodge Caravan, which is essentially the same body style as the T&C. I don't think it looks cheap and I don't think it feels "tinny" as a PP said. When we looked at 2010 Odysseys with similar mileage, they were about $28,000 - $30,000, which was way out of our price range. I wouldn't have bought our Caravan brand new, since buying a year old model saved us a ton. They definitely depreciate faster than Hondas. We paid $15,900 for ours.
As far as the single tether anchor in the back row, there is a post somewhere on this forum that details the steps to getting d-ring type straps from Dodge that attach to the bolts on the rear seat to add 2 tether anchors to the back row. I will be ordering them soon.
We just bought a 2010 Dodge Caravan, which is essentially the same body style as the T&C. I don't think it looks cheap and I don't think it feels "tinny" as a PP said. When we looked at 2010 Odysseys with similar mileage, they were about $28,000 - $30,000, which was way out of our price range. I wouldn't have bought our Caravan brand new, since buying a year old model saved us a ton. They definitely depreciate faster than Hondas. We paid $15,900 for ours.
As far as the single tether anchor in the back row, there is a post somewhere on this forum that details the steps to getting d-ring type straps from Dodge that attach to the bolts on the rear seat to add 2 tether anchors to the back row. I will be ordering them soon.
jourdysmom
CPST Instructor
canadiangie
New member
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=179305 thread for TT retrofit
Just keep in mind that actually accessing the part isn't super easy. If you can gain access to it you might have to install it yourself. I'll leave my opinion on that aspect of it out of this post. Anyway, interesting to me is when the good folks at LATCH manual were told about this part they were shocked. Not in three editions of the LATCH manual has Chrysler ever spoke about it when asked to confirm what vehicles can/cannot be retrofitted. I'm not saying it's an illegitimate part (it's real, it's for a Durango primarily, but it's real, per Chrysler Canada) I'm saying it's not necessarily as easy as calling up your local dodge dealer and simply having it installed. And there's something very odd about it's existence. I can't put words to it, but I've discussed it with other techs, and I guess what it comes down to is why is this approved part so... mysterious.
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