Question need new carseats / boosters for 5 in Canada

LHarris · Jul 18, 2010

Hi I'm new; I hope I got this in the right area.

I've always just bought what was in our budget and never looked further into car seats. With the new information I've received that led me to this forum I want to take more care in purchasing our car seats. It just so happens that all but one of my seats were purchased about 9 years ago.

I have 5 children currently but baby is due before the end of August.

8.5 yog 60 pounds - not currently in a seat
7.5 yog close to 60 - not currently in a seat
5 yog close to 40 - 5pt FF
3 yob about 35 - his has a bar across the front, FF
almost 2 (20 months) yog about 25 lbs - Graco Comfort Sport, just turned it back RFing.
newborn coming.

So my questions include:

Do I put the older two back into boosters? Which are recommended?

I will obviously keep the 5yog in the 5pt, but her seat is "too old" so it needs to be replaced.

3yob needs a replacement; I've always hated his seat. I don't know the name of it. I think it's a Cosco though.

I'll keep my 20 mon old in her seat until she's too big for it. It's the only one that doesn't need to be replaced.

In regards to the newborn seat, how important or beneficial is it to have an infant seat? Would a combo seat be just as safe? For me the only benefit is being able to carry the infant in the car seat. However I've learned that baby can sleep anywhere and I'd like to "wear" him/her more than I have the others in the past, so carrying baby wouldn't be as big of an issue. Thoughts?

Thanks for your help. I've looked at some of the other recommendations, but haven't found any of the seats locally. I will be going to a city in a couple weeks. Seats I've looked at online includ the Safety First Uptown, the Scenera, Graco Safety Seat 1 and Chicco Keyfit.

Replacing / purchasing 5 seats is going to be expensive and will have to be spread out. Unfortunately. We are looking for the least expensive options. We drive a school bus with van seats. We seat 9 and a driver so getting all the seats in won't be too big of a deal.

Oh and we are in Canada.

bubbaray · Jul 18, 2010

This needs to be moved to the Canadian forum. Otherwise, you'll get US specific reponsives that won't be helpful.

wendytthomas · Jul 18, 2010

Moved, but yes, most likely your older two need boosters. Most kids don't fit without until 10-12 years old. Do either of them pass the five step test?

The 5-Step Test.

1. Does the child sit all the way back against the auto seat?
2. Do the child's knees bend comfortably at the edge of the auto seat?
3. Does the belt cross the shoulder between the neck and arm?
4. Is the lap belt as low as possible, touching the thighs?
5. Can the child stay seated like this for the whole trip?

Plus a sixth of, do their feet reach the ground? If not, they'll slump.

I won't recommend seats, since I know you're in Canada, but I wanted to tell you I moved your thread to the Canadian forum, and yes the kids will need boosters.

Wendy

QuassEE · Jul 18, 2010

It looks like you're in BC? Not only do you need boosters, but you're actually likely violating the law in not using them? (I'm not sure, since you drive a bus..) ...not to mention, the law is an absolute minimum and even then it doesn't extend quite to the point where it needs to be in order to ensure optimal safety.

All of your seats that were purchased 9 years ago have long since expired. Typically, seats expire at around 6 years although there are some differences between the manufacturers. Which seat do you have that hasn't expired (name, and when it was manufactured)?

Your 5 year old may or may not be ready for a booster, only you know the answer to that--with so many other kids to get in and out of the car you may want to consider a booster for her, or a harnessed seat. You'll want to re-weigh her, since obviously if she really hasn't hit 40lbs yet she does need to be harnessed--the minimum weight on our boosters in Canada is 40lbs.

There are a number of convertible (rearward/forward facing seats) that are suitable for a newborn. There are also a lot of inexpensive options, and since replacing your current seats is a huge priority we'll try to get some recommendations in.

I'm thinking it's your 20m old's seat that isn't expired?

Would you be able to take a picture of one of your vehicle seats for us? I may have some more questions once I see the photo. It's important to have that before we start making seat recommendations.

-Nicole.

bubbaray · Jul 18, 2010

My responses are in bold.

I have 5 children currently but baby is due before the end of August.

8.5 yog 60 pounds - not currently in a seat
7.5 yog close to 60 - not currently in a seat
5 yog close to 40 - 5pt FF
3 yob about 35 - his has a bar across the front, FF
almost 2 (20 months) yog about 25 lbs - Graco Comfort Sport, just turned it back RFing.
newborn coming.

So my questions include:

Do I put the older two back into boosters? Which are recommended? Yes, most likely your older 2 need to be back in boosters -- see Wendy's helpful info re 5-stepping. What province do you live in? In BC for example, the child needs to be in a booster until age 9 or a specific height, whichever is later. What kind of belts are in your van, though? Boosters can NOT be used with lap-only belts. If you really do have lap/shoulder belts for the boostered children, the Parkway is a nice booster. The Monterey is really nice, but heavy and I'm not sure I'd recommend it if you don't have LATCH, which is unlikely in a bus. The Graco TurboBooster highback fits lots of kids well, & is widely available. It is probably a bit small for your 8yo though.

I will obviously keep the 5yog in the 5pt, but her seat is "too old" so it needs to be replaced. The two harnessed seats with the highest top slots in Canada are the Graco Nautilus and the Britax Frontier. Both convert to boosters. The Sunshine Kids Radian is a close 3rd, but can not be converted to a booster.

3yob needs a replacement; I've always hated his seat. I don't know the name of it. I think it's a Cosco though. See replies above for the 5yo. I would look at similar seats.

I'll keep my 20 mon old in her seat until she's too big for it. It's the only one that doesn't need to be replaced. Actually, this was the first seat that caught my eye. What harness slot are you using to RF in the ComfortSport? The ComfortSport is not a great seat for either RFg (only usable for the bottom 2 slots) nor for FFg (only for the top 2 slots and the "highest" slot is really low. I would be very surprised if a 20mo still fit in the ComfortSport RF. I've owned 2 of those seats (long story -- one was a replacement from Graco).

In regards to the newborn seat, how important or beneficial is it to have an infant seat? Would a combo seat be just as safe? A convertible seat (that is usable both RFg and FFg) that fits the newborn well is just as safe as an infant seat. If you have large babies, you can go straight to a convertible seat. However, if you have small/early babies, you might not be able to find a convertible that fits small babies well. Generally, the Radian fits newborns well.

Hopefully more techs/moms with larger families will chime in. April has a large family that she has squeezed into a van, so she is very helpful with large family situations.

HTH

catchthewind · Jul 18, 2010

LHarris said:
In regards to the newborn seat, how important or beneficial is it to have an infant seat? Would a combo seat be just as safe? For me the only benefit is being able to carry the infant in the car seat. However I've learned that baby can sleep anywhere and I'd like to "wear" him/her more than I have the others in the past, so carrying baby wouldn't be as big of an issue. Thoughts?

I know the techs will be way more useful than I would be about the rest of your questions, but I wanted to comment quickly on this part.

We had a bucket seat for DD1, but almost never actually took it out of the car. Even in the winter, it's pretty quick to get a baby from a seat to a carrier and back again, and imo baby is warmer, safer, and more comfy in a good carrier (ie not a Bjorn or one of the bag ones) than a car seat anyway. (And with an August baby, you'll be pretty good at the transition by the time it gets really cold.) I had a nice maternity hoodie I'd worn while pregnant that fit over top of her in the carrier until she was over a year old, meaning I didn't have to put tons of clothing on her to keep her warm. And after some practice, I could easily get her out of the car seat and keep her asleep in the carrier, though I've always found it harder to get her from the carrier to the car seat asleep. For the most part though, if she was asleep in the carrier we tended to just stay wherever we were until she woke up.

We pretty much went straight to a convertible with DD2 and there has only been one time where a bucket might have come in handy, but for the most part I haven't missed it at all. Both girls seem more comfy in their convertibles than they were in buckets too (DD2 was in a borrowed one for a few weeks while we waited for the TFP to come out here).

LHarris · Jul 18, 2010

Ok, I've made a list of TO DO's already. And I will try my best to answer everyone who has responded so far.

I will do the 5 Step (6 step) with the oldest two as well as go and have everyone weighed and measured at the hospital, probably tomorrow.

We are in Alberta and are not required to have boosters by law; recommended but not required.

My non-expired seat is the Graco Comfort Sport and it expires in 2013; we purchased it in the last year to 18 months. I have Baby R at the second slot in this seat; I didn't read properly, obviously to know that I can only use this seat FFing with the straps in the top slots. Where should the slots fall on the child?

I will go and take pictures of the seats. I have two belts that are shoulder-lap belts, but the rest are lap only belts. Once I have more than 2 in boosters, what do I do? At some point I am going to have more than 2 in boosters.

I have large babies. Most are over 8 pounds, with two being over 10 pounds.

Thanks to all who have responded already. And thanks for moving my post.

QuassEE · Jul 18, 2010

So the Comfort Sport can stay with the 20m old--the harness should be at or below the shoulders (and in the appropriate slots for orientation) when rear-facing. At or above, forward facing (and again, in the appropriate slots).. RF as long as possible. The baby will need something that is suitable for a newborn and inexpensive--the Graco MyRide, Sunshine Kids Radian, or the First Years TrueFit would be good options. The MyRide is $170 at TRU and the TrueFit I believe is $199 but $149 on sale at Zellers frequently. Your 3 year old should be in something with decently high slots and a high weight for the harness, something like the Graco Nautilus or Britax Frontier would work--the Nautilus is quite a bit cheaper. Your 5 year old is going to be a tough one--but the same recommendations as your 3 year old but you want to make sure you get some decent height there because of your lapbelt situation.

Once you have more than two in boosters, you'll ideally first need to use the l/s belt in the passenger seat with a booster unless you then have another adult in the vehicle and then you..well, choose which kids you love more. Unfortunately there's no safe AND legal option... but let's look at those seats, first, before we talk about booster seat recommendations.

-Nicole.

QuassEE · Jul 18, 2010

Oh, I'm actually thinking we can look into whether or not you can install a bus bench or bus add-on restraints in your vehicle.. I'm just not sure about where and how you might be exempt based on vehicle weight. That might require some research.

-Nicole.

bubbaray · Jul 18, 2010

I'd actually pass the ComfortSport to the newborn -- it likely even came with an infant head pillow, which is fine to use as it came with the seat. All my whining about that seat aside, it does fit some bigger newborns well.

I would get a bigger seat for the 20mo. I like Nicole's list. My first choice would still be the Radian.

QuassEE · Jul 18, 2010

bubbaray said:
I'd actually pass the ComfortSport to the newborn -- it likely even came with an infant head pillow, which is fine to use as it came with the seat. All my whining about that seat aside, it does fit some bigger newborns well.

I would get a bigger seat for the 20mo. I like Nicole's list. My first choice would still be the Radian.

I thought about this, too.. and if money really is tight, it might be the way to go, although not really ideal.. A newborn is going to swim in the CS, and so my caution here would be with regards to the harness tightness.. literally, that baby will need to be cinched in there since they'll have a couple of inches above their shoulders from the get-go.

Waiting on a photo to cover some booster options for you...

-Nicole.

LHarris · Jul 18, 2010

Ok here are the pics of my van seats:

front seat with CS installed RF.

front seat

Middle seat with two seats installed - 5yo next to window and 3yo in the middle.

Back seat with no car seats, one or both of the older girls will sit back there, with lap belts.

QuassEE · Jul 19, 2010

This is a really tough situation...

Firstly, the most dangerous thing going on really isn't the lack of booster seats or the expired carseats..not at all. It's those lapbelts you're using for the older kids, while the lap-shoulder belts are being wastefully used for your child restraints. The lapbelts are only good for child restraints, and should ideally never be used to restrain a child. Lapbelts = DANGEROUS. They literally cut children in two, in a collision.

Your older two will need to be in highback boosters in those lap/shoulder belt positions. A highback booster is the one with the whole headrest up the back, as your children do not have sufficient head protection (no headrests) without a highback. Something with a nice and tall seat height, since the lack of headrests is going to be a huge issue for you into the future--eg. the Sunshine Kids Monterey or the Britax Parkway SG. Spend the extra money on decent boosters--unfortunately, you're not going to be able to get away with a $40 lowback here.

Next.. we need two new harnessed seats, which will go into those lapbelt positions. I'm thinking you don't have top tethers on your bus seats, but is that something you can check for? I'm going to completely ignore that issue right now under the assumption that you may be exempt, and just warn you that if you're unable to top tether you could potentially be ticketed for misusing the carseats I'm recommending (since they require top tethers in Canada).. IMO we're safer having those kids in harnessed seats in those lapbelt positions versus all other options, so the top tethers may be moot--legal or otherwise.

Two new seats--something nice and tall that you can keep them harnessed for quite a while.. I'm thinking the Graco Nautilus for at least one child if not both, and possibly one Nautilus and one TrueFit so you can benefit from rear-facing your 20 month old down the road.. and then you'll need another seat once the baby comes (either one of the two or three I've recommended or a new seat for the baby)..

In all honesty.. I REALLY think you need to see somebody in person to work this out. Your situation is unique and there are a number of potentially dangerous aspects to how your kids are currently being transported. Fortunately, you've come to the right place and we'll keep working with you to get your kids safe.

Are you able to disclose where you are, so that we might find a tech in your area who can meet with you?

-Nicole.

QuassEE · Jul 19, 2010

One more thing--were those seatbelts actually on the seats, or retrofitted? There needs to be an additional crossbar structure under the seat for the seat to handle the loads of a seatbelt, and I just wanted to make sure they were properly reinforced. This is something that a tech who is knowledgeable with bus seat design will need to look at.

I'm going to see if the Cam wrap is a possibility in Canada, since there is a way we can get harnesses up to 105lbs on those bus seats if they are available here for buses.. I will be looking into that tomorrow.

-Nicole.

LHarris · Jul 19, 2010

My answers in BOLD.

QuassEE said:
This is a really tough situation...

Firstly, the most dangerous thing going on really isn't the lack of booster seats or the expired carseats..not at all. It's those lapbelts you're using for the older kids, while the lap-shoulder belts are being wastefully used for your child restraints. The lapbelts are only good for child restraints, and should ideally never be used to restrain a child. Lapbelts = DANGEROUS. They literally cut children in two, in a collision. I can move the older children to the l/s but it's gonna be a PITA to get them in and out of there with RF seats closer to the aisle.

Your older two will need to be in highback boosters in those lap/shoulder belt positions. A highback booster is the one with the whole headrest up the back, as your children do not have sufficient head protection (no headrests) without a highback. Something with a nice and tall seat height, since the lack of headrests is going to be a huge issue for you into the future--eg. the Sunshine Kids Monterey or the Britax Parkway SG. Spend the extra money on decent boosters--unfortunately, you're not going to be able to get away with a $40 lowback here. Ok, I will look into those two boosters.

Next.. we need two new harnessed seats, which will go into those lapbelt positions. I'm thinking you don't have top tethers on your bus seats, but is that something you can check for? I'm going to completely ignore that issue right now under the assumption that you may be exempt, and just warn you that if you're unable to top tether you could potentially be ticketed for misusing the carseats I'm recommending (since they require top tethers in Canada).. IMO we're safer having those kids in harnessed seats in those lapbelt positions versus all other options, so the top tethers may be moot--legal or otherwise. I do have the tethers. They are installed into the frame of the bus. We can be ticketed for not using top tether.

Two new seats--something nice and tall that you can keep them harnessed for quite a while.. I'm thinking the Graco Nautilus for at least one child if not both, and possibly one Nautilus and one TrueFit so you can benefit from rear-facing your 20 month old down the road.. and then you'll need another seat once the baby comes (either one of the two or three I've recommended or a new seat for the baby)..

In all honesty.. I REALLY think you need to see somebody in person to work this out. Your situation is unique and there are a number of potentially dangerous aspects to how your kids are currently being transported. Fortunately, you've come to the right place and we'll keep working with you to get your kids safe.

Are you able to disclose where you are, so that we might find a tech in your area who can meet with you? I am in Mayerthorpe, AB.

-Nicole.

Thanks so much for your suggestions.

LaDonna

LHarris · Jul 19, 2010

QuassEE said:
One more thing--were those seatbelts actually on the seats, or retrofitted? There needs to be an additional crossbar structure under the seat for the seat to handle the loads of a seatbelt, and I just wanted to make sure they were properly reinforced. This is something that a tech who is knowledgeable with bus seat design will need to look at.

I'm going to see if the Cam wrap is a possibility in Canada, since there is a way we can get harnesses up to 105lbs on those bus seats if they are available here for buses.. I will be looking into that tomorrow.

-Nicole.

The seat belts are through the bus frame for the back seat. The other buckles are part of the seat.

LaDonna

Shanora · Jul 19, 2010

Hmmm, Do you ever come into Edmonton? There are at least 4 of us Techs here that would be able to help you out with getting the proper seats, and helping you get the best placement for your children/seats.

Although if you don't come to Edmonton, I might be able to plan a road trip for 2 or 3 of us techs to come see you since your just under 2 hours away.

LHarris · Jul 19, 2010

Shanora said:
Hmmm, Do you ever come into Edmonton? There are at least 4 of us Techs here that would be able to help you out with getting the proper seats, and helping you get the best placement for your children/seats.

Although if you don't come to Edmonton, I might be able to plan a road trip for 2 or 3 of us techs to come see you since your just under 2 hours away.

We come to Edmonton occasionally. Our next trip (to Sherwood Park) to see our midwife is scheduled for the 29th of July. However, those trips are usually already very full. We don't bring the bus or the children because my dh and I treat these days as date days.

I think we can figure out what to do by just talking it through.

My plan at this point is to not use the back seat at all (for children) and move all the children to the two van seats. The two in boosters will move to the s/l belts. The two youngest (when the baby gets here) will be RF in the two middle lap belts. And the middle to children will be FFing on the two outside seats with tethers. We will have to move tether hooks to those positions but we have had lots of practice putting those in properly. (Very rarely have we owned a vehicle that had them already installed.)

Shanora · Jul 19, 2010

Would it be easier to have the RFing children on the outside and the FFing children in the center, so that the older 2 in Booster can get in and out easier?

QuassEE · Jul 19, 2010

LHarris--you'll have to pick up at least some of the carseats prior to a tech coming out there, so they have something to work with. Right now you have 5, almost 6, children who need seats and only one usable seat among them.

I'll put this out there to the Edmonton-area techs--I will cover your fuel costs and lunch if you're brave enough to make the trek out to see the OP and her family and help them out with the seat situation.

-N.

Question need new carseats / boosters for 5 in Canada

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