rav4 center

Jana · May 10, 2010

I discovered on this website yesterday that we've had our Keyfit installed incorrectly in our 2008 rav4 despite having it inspected. We were borrowing the latch from the two sides. I can't find anywhere in the owners manual saying not to do this but read on here that it is not allowed by Toyota. My husband then tried to install in center with the seatbelt and he can't get it tight. He said it looks tight and then when he shakes the seat it all comes loose. He also said the seatbelt gets in the way of the locking mechanism on the carseat. So now we have it installed using latch on the passenger side even though we only have one child and really want to have him in the center. We are both so frustrated we are ready to buy a new vehicle that has center latch. I would take it to the firehall (that is who inspects car seats here) to get help installing it with the seatbelt but I have lost confidence in them now that I realize they didn't follow the rules by borrowing the outboard latch anchors last time. What would you do?

Our son is 17 lbs at 9 weeks. If he continues to gain 1lb/week like he has so far been doing, he'll have outgrown his Keyfit in 5 weeks. The reason I was on this website in the first place was researching for his convertible and I wanted the Radian but it doesn't sound like it will fit.

mommycat · May 11, 2010

Hi and welcome!

Sorry that you are frustrated, hopefully we can help you out. Your Toyota manual should tell you which positions are allowed to use with UAS/LATCH. It might not state "do not use the seat here" but should indicate which positions are equipped with anchors and therefore those seating positions ONLY can be used with those anchors.

I do not have any experience with the Keyfit or its lockoffs. What do you mean the seatbelt gets in the way? Is your seatbelt a lap belt only and the buckle comes up too far? Or is there a little button on the seatbelt that comes in on the lockoff? You can twist the buckle stalk (the female end of the seatbelt) up to 3 full 260* turns to lower the buckle position, or if it is the button, you can just pop it off with a butterknife (carefully, don't damage the webbing) since it is just a placeholder. Also, if it is a lap belt only, are the lockoffs on the Keyfit mandatory?

Don't feel too bad about having your son on the outboard - while middle is statistically safer, a good install outboard is better than a poor install in the center, as you obviously and correctly assumed. :thumbsup: Try the center install again with the tips above (or post back with more info on the problem if I got it wrong), and otherwise just choose the next seat and move on.

Do you have any seats in mind aside from the Radian? Has anyone said outright that the Radian wouldn't fit, or are you just worried because of all the comments about it often being difficult and taking up a lot of room?

Jana · May 11, 2010

We tried installing it again together and got it tighter but the problem that still exists is the male part of the buckle (the plastic part that holds the metal) sticks up too high and gets in the way of one of the metal hook things that the car seat clicks in to. It is a shoulder belt that comes down and clicks in on the left of the passenger and then goes over to buckle in on the right. Can I still twist the female end to lower it? That might solve the problem.

I'll need to figure out the next car seat within the month too. Any suggestions for what is known to fit in the center of a Rav4?

ketchupqueen · May 11, 2010

The center buckle stalk in the RAV4 is really long. You need 3 full twists even to get an acceptable install of a Britax seat (which has a really tall base!)

I'm thinking that you may choose to use the outboard seating position instead, because it is more car seat install-friendly.

Jana · May 11, 2010

Thanks for the help you guys!

Is there any extended rear facing seat you know of that installs safely in the center of the Rav4?

If there isn't, I would rather buy a different vehicle than put him outboard. If I put him outboard it is going to annoy me for the next several years. I'd rather just spend the money for a new vehicle that will make me happy about where he is sitting. We are tall people and will have a hard time fitting most car seats behind the seats. The Keyfit is now in the center of my 09 Corolla and the driver's seat has to sit farther forward than is comfortable for me. I'll give the Keyfit another try in the Rav with the twisting and hopefully that helps with the Keyfit but I still need something to move him into when he outgrows it in a month or so. The one place in my city that sells Radians will not allow us to try it in our vehicle before purchasing it. Ridiculous.

marjen · May 11, 2010

I too have a 2008 RAV4. I haven't been able to successfully install anything in the center of the backseat. I had my Keyfit installed in the center with borrowed latch as well (before I knew better)...I had to move it outboard because of the crazy seatbelt setup. I've tried since then to install in the center with different convertibles, with no luck. I've been tempted to get another vehicle, because it's frustrating that it's basically a 4-seater vehicle.

canmom · May 11, 2010

marjen said:
it's frustrating that it's basically a 4-seater vehicle.

:yeahthat:

My grandfather drives a 2008 Rav4 and anytime I have put one of my kids in there I put them outboard and I don't even bother with that silly centre belt. Not that it can't be done, just not worth the effort IMHO.

As far as the centre install goes, it sounds like your mainly concerned about safety? What is most important is to keep your son rear-facing as long as possible, a bare min of age 2 is the current recommendation. Rear-facing is about 500% safer in a side impact crash and your also driving a vehicle with side curtain airbags (likely?). In terms of what position is safest, I think it is all relative to the occupant (rfing, ffing, booster, adult etc), vehicle, side-curtain airbag situation etc. I don't think you need to purchase a new vehicle with centre LATCH to keep him safe :twocents:.

ketchupqueen · May 11, 2010

I have not successfully installed a Keyfit base in the center of a (newer) RAV 4 because of the buckle stalk. It is safer to be in a properly installed seat outboard than in an improperly installed one center.

I have only successfully put a Britax convertible forward-facing in that center spot, because of the huge tall base they have. (I haven't tried one rear-facing though.) The MyRide is tall enough it might be a possibility. It's barely possible that something with a really LOW belt path might work if you could get the buckle all the way IN the belt path (Complete Air maybe? True Fit would be a problem because of the lockoffs.)

My almost-step-mom has an 09 RAV 4 and I just HATE putting rear-facing seats in that car, period.

njmommy · May 11, 2010

I have an 09 Rav4 and my manual definitely says no borrowing LATCH.
Anyway, we have never been able to get a tight install in the center - with convertible or now with our britax frontier. It just will not work.
DS had to moved to the passenger side when we purchased the Rav.

Jana · May 12, 2010

We tried installing a My Ride 65 in the center with the seatbelt and then on the passenger side with LATCH and then the seatbelt. We couldn't get a good install any of those ways but center actually seemed most acceptable. We couldn't pull it tight enough with latch. The cupholder was in the way of really pulling up strongly on the belt. Then when we tried the outboard seatbelt install it didn't seem tight so we tightened it more and then the shoulder belt was hitting the side (cupholder area again) of the seat and kind of lifting it and tilting it. Any tips?

sparkyd · May 13, 2010

I haven't installed a MyRide yet, so I don't have any specific tips for that seat. I'm sure someone else will though. I wanted to post a general tip for installing rear-facing convertibles. To get the best leverage for tightening and to help with getting the recline you need, you should move the front seat all the way up and tilt it forward, if possible. Then get in the car and stand behind the child restraint and lean over it so the top of the shell is at your hips. Use your hips to push the seat down (recline) and in to the vehicle seat while you are pulling up on the UAS strap or seat belt. When using UAS if there are any gaps in the seat shell where you can pull the end of the belt back through to the inside of the seat, that usually gives you better leverage than pulling up on the outside. I hope that made sense!

canmom · May 13, 2010

sparkyd said:
I wanted to post a general tip for installing rear-facing convertibles. To get the best leverage for tightening and to help with getting the recline you need, you should move the front seat all the way up and tilt it forward, if possible. Then get in the car and stand behind the child restraint and lean over it so the top of the shell is at your hips. Use your hips to push the seat down (recline) and in to the vehicle seat while you are pulling up on the UAS strap or seat belt. When using UAS if there are any gaps in the seat shell where you can pull the end of the belt back through to the inside of the seat, that usually gives you better leverage than pulling up on the outside. I hope that made sense!

:yeahthat:

Also, pull back the cover at the feet so you can expose the belt path entirely and gain better access to the seatbelt or adjuster strap. If you are attempting to pull it tight from the side it likely won't get tight enough.

mommycat · May 13, 2010

That's your problem, then, if you were pulling on the outside of the seat. I don't pull the cover off the area by the feet, I just peel the cover off the side. For the MyRide, you peel the cover off around the cupholder on the buckle side (it's elastic) and pull the tail of the latch belt or the shoulder belt of the seatbelt through the belt path opening and pull upwards, into the center of the seat. Sma egoes for any convertible with an open RF beltpath. It is ideal if you can get in behind the seat as sparkyd explained and push beck with your hips and down in the bum area with one hand, pulling with the other (push down in the toe area instead for a more upright install). For seats that have an enclosed beltpath, like the Radian, you would take out all the slack you could on the outside of the seat, then feed the tail/belt through and pull tight through the beltpath. It's all about getting a god angle for the belt to slide well through the adjuster or buckle.

A shoulder belt install will often tip like you describe - it is not really a safety issue unless it's a significant lean, but it does tend to annoy people, and possibly the child. Sometimes just tightening it VERY well in the lapbelt and then just taking out the slack but not yanking up on it to feed it into the retractor will work ok, and you may need to reinstall occasionally as it gets worse over time. If you can get a good latch install in an approved location instead, that's an easy fix. Otherwise, you can skip locking the shoulder belt and do a locking clip install. They can be a pain and confusing at first, but do often provide a very tight and stable install when done correctly.

sparkyd · May 13, 2010

mommycat said:
Otherwise, you can skip locking the shoulder belt and do a locking clip install. They can be a pain and confusing at first, but do often provide a very tight and stable install when done correctly.

We usually do rear-facing seat belt installs with a locking clip because of the tipping issue. It is a pain in the butt though - definitely a two-person job. Well, at least for me!

Jana · May 14, 2010

We're just heading outside to attempt the install again. Am I correct in understanding that the locking clip is put on to make the lap belt the perfect length and then you plug the seatbelt in after the locking clip is already on?

ketchupqueen · May 14, 2010

You want to buckle, tighten, get the correct length, unbuckle while holding at that length, put the locking clip on, and then re-buckle.

A good page: http://www.carseatsite.com/lockingclips.htm

Jana · May 14, 2010

Thank you all very much for your help. I am pretty sure we successfully installed the My Ride on the passenger side with UAS. When you try to move it side to side, where are you supposed to grab it? We get no movement when we hold it on the cup holders. We get a small amount of movement if we hold it at the top of the seat.

In a center install it rocked (but didn't slide) side to side. I assume that is bad?

canmom · May 14, 2010

Glad to hear it worked for you. Only test for movement at the belt-path (where the UAS strap or seat belt goes through the seat). Don't test for movement at the top of the seat... you will almost always get movement there. If you want to post some pictures we can check out the install for you.

rav4 center

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