Using a UK seat in Canada

[biddyk8]

I know its illegal but how illegal is it if you know what I mean?

Someone on another forum I use has moved over here in August from the Uk and is refusing to change their car seats they have for the kids and infant and 3 year old. Their argument is that the UK testing is safer than here and the seats were expensive so they aren't stopping using them. A few of the other posters are saying they also did the same thing

I'm the only one saying get a new seat. Is there any massive difference between the crash testing or anything I could use as persuasion?

 

[TechnoGranola]

If they are using them per the UK manual and the seats install per the manual in the Canadian vehicle, I'd probably not waste my time arguing with them. If they get stopped and the police officer/RCMP cares, they'll get a ticket and maybe even get the seat confiscated right there (doesn't Alberta do that? Maybe I'm dreaming).

If they aren't using the seat correctly though or it doesn't install properly, that's a safety issue for their child.

Isn't it typical in the UK to FF really early though? So their seats have low RF weight limits? If so, I might go at it from the angle that we have such awesome 40/45 # RF seats here.

--Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org

 

[snowbird25ca]

UK seats don't have a top tether, and they don't have a chest clip, so they'll be immediately recognizable by any police officer who has seen carseats in use before - even if they don't know a lot about carseats. (I'm assuming that the 3yr old is ff'ing.)

Alberta will hold parents at a roadside stop until somebody comes to bring an appropriate restraint for a child if the child can't be transported safely. I'm not sure if a UK seat would be considered cause to hold a family or not.

Honestly, yes, it is potentially a life and death matter using a UK seat in Canada. Whether it's a life or death matter for their child in their car, in *their* collision, who knows... but carseats are just plain expensive over there - that says nothing of their quality or safety - they're just expensive in the UK.

I have seen families not want to replace European seats before until they have the differences explained to them. Once they understand the differences in seats - and the top tether being required by law is a very big difference all on it's own, they are usually willing to replace the seat. In fact, of all the families I've helped with foreign carseats, they have all replaced them. Whether this is due to the fact that they understand the risks, or is partly due to me refusing to assist them with a seat that isn't certified to meet CMVSS standards, I'm not sure. But to this point everyone has replaced their seats once they've gained more education on it.

Unfortunately, you're facing a difficult situation because there is a whole forum of people going "don't worry about it, I didn't worry about it either and my kids are fine" while you are the lone dissenter. It's unfortunate that as part of visa's/immigration/etc that the government isn't clearer about it being mandatory to use Canadian seats. Or if they are clear about it, maybe they need to do something to follow-up.

I hope you have some success in helping them.

 

[canadiangie]

Some UK seats have a tether strap. I observed a UK seat in action a while back and mom showed me how it was installed (ISOFIX and tether) and attempted to show me why her UK Britax was better than her Canadian Britax Frontier. Eta: just pulled documentation -- it was a Romer Duo.

Then I showed her how to actually install her Canadian Frontier. And got it rock-solid in under 30 seconds. And she was delighted and relieved. And I saw a gimmer of something in her eye -- like maybe non-UK seats aren't junk afterall.

I have no idea if she changed seats, but I do know that based on my perusing her manual and watching her install her seat, and seeing her tighten the harness to a beautiful and rare snugness that seems to be inherent on seats that have no chest clip (I don't think I saw a single harness left super loose on an infant seat when I was in Europe for two weeks), I was pretty sure her seat was installed and being used correctly *per the manual*.

Still very much illegal for use here, a ticketable offense, and strongly discouraged, but it was in fact pretty interesting to see a seat being used correctly, so easily, practically zero effort, and for that I was quietly humbled. I can only imagine how strange it would be to be used to say, the ease of ISOFIX, and then come here and buy a $300 Canadian seat of identical brand, and struggle like the dickens to install it AND have someone saying your identical brand easy as pie seat is illegal for use. It's a tough sell, for sure. Add in a message board (in your case) where people are telling her it's fine, and well, good luck.


I ramble, my apologies. I'm not sure what to suggest. People make choices and sometimes face the consequences. I'm not sure you (on a message board) will convince her the seat is unsafe for use, but you can stress the legality issues. After that I think you just to let it be.


Eta: on the off chance that she does re-consider buying CMVSS seats, you should maybe consider validating the fact that she might find them harder to use than her current seats. And it's a good idea to mention that we do have seats with rigid latch (on the off chance she prefers it), and I think it would be awesome if you could get her in touch with a good and understanding CRST who could possibly walk her through some seat options, maybe offer to meet with her and discuss things, show her some CMVSS seats, the similarities, and the differences. Our seats don't bite.

Thinking about moving to a new country where things are so different and I might cling to what I know too. But if someone actually reached out to help with the transition... well, that would be very helpful... less scary.


Again, rambling... apologies...

 

[Adventuredad]

The story about UK testing is nonsense. Or "rubbish" as the English would say There is only one car seat standard in Europe and it's called ECE R44. There is no special standard which apply to UK.

Perhaps she was referring to the Swedish standard called Plus Test (although I doubt it)? This is by far the strictest standard in the world with avery abusive crash pulse and also measurement of forces in a child's head and neck.

One could argue that the "UK" seats are safer than Canadian seats if the seats were Swedish. That would mean possibility of far longer rear facing time with tall seat shell, compact size and a 55 lbs rear facing weight limit.

A Candian infant seat and UK/EU seat does not offer different safety. Same apply to forward facing seats. Both Canadian and EU seats offer the same safety.

 

[FrauDrA]

One thought: have they moved here permanently? When we lived in Europe, we did so temporarily, so continued to use our Canadian seats.


(That said, I know of two families - one European, one American - whose children were born here, yet they imported seats from their respective countries rather than buy Canadian models...)

 

[biddyk8]

Yep they moved here for good. They have a peg perego infant seat and a britax ff'er so they aren't talking about the swedish plus test. They moved here when the baby was 4 weeks old and knew the seat would be illegal here so I don't really understand why they didn't buy a £40 seat from mothercare to last that month and then buy a seat here for the baby

I've pointed out the tether, chest clip and also mention the anti rebound because would that not be different on a uk infant seat than if they were to buy an infant seat here now? They are in Ontario and are planning on crossing the border frequently to visa people in the states so I also mentioned that they are ocassionally checked at borders to make sure people aren't importing US seats as I have heard of people getting their seat checked when crossing by car.

Also said it is up to them if they want to risk it and have a safe install

 

[jacqui276]

I could be making this up, but don't they often confiscate foreign seats at the border when entering Canada if you live in Canada?

 

[canadiangie]

I could be making this up, but don't they often confiscate foreign seats at the border when entering Canada if you live in Canada?

Things seem to slip through the cracks.

I recently ran into a family with the most gorgeous pram travel system. I had to ask about it. I never assume a foreign seat in use belongs to someone who lives here. I always go on the basis that they are visiting our country. And so after I complimented the pram/seat I asked where they were from. Answer: Calgary. They imported the stroller and seat from Europe somewhere, having had it shipped. The company gave them "papers" for it so it's legal. Good grief I'm thinking, and so I briefly explained things, but they paid $1000 for it, so I'm pretty sure they're keeping it. Plus, they have papers.

Kiddicare mini seat with some kind of pram. Lovely fabric, gorgeous product, and 100% illegal for use in Canada.

 

[biddyk8]

I think they do occasional spot checks at the border on seats.

I don't understand why people import full travel systems because you can get 99% of the strollers available in europe here and you can just buy a different car seat that would be legal for it.

I think on an infant seat I just feel happier with the 5point harness over the 3 point harness you get in europe.

I also think everyone know someone who did it who didn't get caught so they therefore don't believe it is possible to get caught.

 

[biddyk8]

Just another request sorry! Does anyone have a link showing some law or legistation on not using seats after they expire? And also about the seizing seats being a possibility in Alberta?

I am being told this is just a money making scam and there's no law about it.

I don't think anything will convince the person asking but it might sway the others on the fence.

Thanks/help!

 

[TechnoGranola]

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/safedrivers-childsafety-notices-2011c01-1168.htm
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/safedrivers-childsafety-notices-2007c09-menu-353.htm

--Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org

 

[jacqui276]

Things seem to slip through the cracks.

I'm just thinking with frequent border crossing between the US and Canada, someone would be bound to notice sooner or later, wouldn't they?

 

[QuassEE]

Naw, it's only an issue when you declare upon import. Some people smuggle their seats now, to avoid having them seized. It's a horrible position to put parents in, especially when they're importing seats for holiday and such. For example--we know that you should have European seats for a European trip. But it's "illegal" to import the seats so that you can take them with you to Europe. What do you do?

-N.

 

[tam_shops]

So true, it's a serious problem when border guards start grabbing European seats off European families. Or Canadian seats from Canadian families. Same problem when you're travelling. What do they think you're going to use to/from the Airport on either end...

I go through the Canadian American border a few times a month. I've never had anyone ask about my seats. Though, once they commented on how my 2 and 5yo must be twins since they were still both ERF. LOL

tam

 

[mam521]

There was someone on another board I was on who is Canadian but her partner is American. She has seats in both places because her permanent residency is still Canadian and Border Services nearly confiscated her American seats based on her permanent residency.

So, if they are planning to cross the border often, I suspect less issue going down, but significantly more issue coming up, especially with their residency changing to Canadian.

 

[LittlePeanut]

I know we've confiscated one imported seat (Romer) at a roadside check with the RCMP. I can and does happen. The seat was illegal, the parent was a Canadian and the vehicle registered to her was a Canadian vehicle. She was told to have someone come with a legal seat immediately or take the $140+ fine. I believe, in the end, we ended up providing her with a seat for the child.