Toyota Sienna 2011 and 4 car seats

[Unregistered]

Hi there,

We have a 2011 Toyota Sienna and are expecting our 4th child in May. The ages of our kids will be: 5.5 yrs, 4 yrs, 20 months, and, of course, newborn.

Our set up now (with 3 kids): two convertible Britax Boulevards in the front bucket seats and one convertible in middle of the back row.

Our anticipated car seats for May (with 4 kids): one RF infant car seat (Chicco Keyfit), one RF Britax Boulevard convertible, one FF Britax Boulevard convertible, and one FF booster seat (for my 5.5 year old.

It is worth noting that my 5 year-old's car seat currently needs to secured with the seat belt as opposed to the anchors, given he is 40+ pounds, and I anticipate that my 4 year-old's convertible will soon require the same. The Sienna has anchors in both middle row bucket seats and one set of anchors (I believe in the middle?) of the back row.

My first question pertains to what kind of seat I should get for my 5 year-old. Is a booster the next step? I would like a seat that gives him maximum safety but preferably one that does not take up too much room as I need to place another car seat in the back row with him! We have used Britax for their convertible car seats and have loved them, though sticking with that brand is not a must for me.

My next question is: how on earth do I set up this car with the infant car seat, 2 Boulevards, and a booster seat? Is this even possible? Should I just sell this Sienna and buy a bus?

Thank you so much. Your advice is so valuable to me!

 

[lgenne]

The lower anchors in the 3rd row are offset, centerish, but offset toward the passenger side (I think--I only played with them once well over a year ago, so maybe they're closer to the driver's side?) They don't line up with a seat belt. There's also only one tether anchor back there, which I believe can be used either center or on the passenger side (or driver's side, if I'm misremembering).

How good is your 5 year old at sitting still and following rules? If (s)he's good at it, a booster is fine. If not, (s)he should stay harnessed.

Once we know that answer we can come up with suggestions for seating arrangements.

 

[Unregistered]

You are exactly right about there being only one tether anchor for the 3rd row. As for the 3rd row lower anchors, I cannot really tell but it looks as though they may be centered a bit more towards the driver's side, if anything. Hard to make it out though, as I have a big car seat in my view!

My 5 year old is a rules and regulations follower, especially when he knows his safety depends upon it. I am quite certain he will not bend the rules as he gains more priveleges in the car. Is there a smallish car seat that can initially serve as a 5-point harness (for added safety) and later can convert to a booster? I suppose they take up more space.

 

[smiley]

I have a later model if the seats havent changed inside and had a couple of different setups. 2 youngest in the captains which are easy. Infant seat was passenger side (now in rf convertible behind driver) and as long as the front seat was all the way up kids could get in and out just fine via the passenger sliding door. Older kids in the back. both used to be in Radians outboard, but I did at one point have a Frontier and Radian next to one another in the 3rd row. And I always have a bubblebum back there for carpooling. It's doable, but you have to watch the lack of top tethers
The Frontier, I think, didn't require tether until 60 pounds and the Radian recommend them. Not ideal without tethers, but that was the best scenario per the tech who did my installs.

 

[Unregistered]

Thanks so much! That's helpful to know how your set it up in the past.

So I understand how the two youngest could be set up easily in the 2nd row but how to set up a Frontier and a Boulevard in the 3rd row? Would they both require seat belt installation and would they both fit? And is a Frontier my next best bet if I'd like a harness-to-booster? I know it is more slim than the Pioneer. I have also read that the Diono Ranier is slim too. I wish I could upload a photo of the 3rd row in my car with the 1 Boulevard alone- I just can't imagine anything else getting in there.

 

[smiley]

I think the Boulevard has to be tethered ff. It's been awhile since I read that manual on mine. In the 3rd row that means that would use the center spot with the tether which is offset to the driver side. I would think you could get something big on the outboard passenger next to it. Can a tech chime in on what's acceptable to not tether? I want to say just the Radian and Frontier to certain limits, but that may be slightly older models. I'm not sure if the new Diono seats pass without the tether either. it's the head excursion results that requires the need for the tether or allows it without (while always recommended).
The non click tight frontier could use the long belt path install which helped sort of mimic a tether until the threshold. I don't know how many non click tights there are being sold now though.
I drove myself crazy about keeping my kids in 5 points back there because I knew they wouldn't sit still in a booster until later. It was hard to get an arrangement that I could still carpool with the only spot not occupied by one of my own kids.

 

[Unregistered]

Thank you, smiley . I have a better picture now of how I could set things up in the 3rd row. Basically, sit the two car seats side to side (boulevard in the middle and harness to booster in outboard passenger side.). But, as you said, there is only on ether anchor for that 3rd row.

Could a tech possibly help me in figuring out whether there is a harness to booster that does not require a tether until later? My son is about 45+ lbs. This seat is a big investment financially and I don't want to purchase a seat that doesn't make the most sense with respect to safety and practicality.

 

[Unregistered]

Is there a tech that can help me with my questions above? I do not want to be pushy and I appreciate your help and expertise, but I'm afraid that my questions have not been answered by a tech and I've waited over 10 days for a response. I would like to be able to purchase a seat in the next few days to take advantage of the Babiesrus trade-in event.

Toyota Sienna 2011, 4 kids: 5 yr old, 4 yr old, 20 month-old and newborn. One infant car seat, 1 rf Britax boulevard, 1 FF Britax boulevard, and I'd like to place my 5 yr old in a harness-to-booster as it's a safer bet than a booster alone at this point. One single tether anchor in the 3rd row.

Recs on 1) what harness to booster to purchase with respect to safety and fit given the number of car seats in the car and 2) what configuration to place the car seats in? Please?

 

[MommaMia]

I have a 2011 too - I haven't tried it, but what about the boulevard FF center rear and a RFing seat on either side. Then the FFing harness to booster in a captain chair and remove the other captain chair for easy access to the 3rd row? I prefer to tether any FFing seat...

 

[Unregistered]

But I would need to keep the other captain's chair there because of our fourth child on the way- need a place for the infant car seat.

I haven't tried it out yet in the 3rd row, but judging by the amount of space left on either side of the center FF Boulevard, I wouldn't be able to squeeze another Boulevard back there next to it.

 

[aept]

Unfortunately you are going to have to suffer a little on either safety or convenience. (Or you will need to buy more new seats.)

With your current seats and buying whatever harness to booster seat you like best for the eldest:
Safest: both RF children in the third row because then the lack of tether anchors doesn't matter.
Then both FF children in captain's chairs with top tethers. This allows for use of almost any seat you have or like but may be a pain to load up the little ones.

Most convenient:
RF children in the two captain's chairs. Your FF children can load before you snap the keyfit into it's base. Maybe they buckle themselves already? The FF seats can both be outboard because any seats would fit like that, but would be untethered. Supposedly the Diono radian performs well untethered FF and it might be a good seat to have in your mix of choices as your kids grow. It doesn't usually make a good booster though, so don't count on that.

Mix of convenience and safety:
Buy two new seats. One not-too-huge combination seat such as the Graco nautilus for the 5 year old. Buy a narrow convertible such as the Diono radian for the 20-month child.
Use the Graco nautilus or a FF boulevard in the center of the third row. Use the RF radian next to it in the third row.
Have the other FF seat in a captain's chair so that it can also be tethered. Have the baby in the other captain's chair. Perhaps this older child would also be helpful with the baby, singing to him/her, or, if he/she can reach the baby, putting a pacifier back in place or something.

There may be something else narrow like the radian that would also work next to a FF seat in the center of the third row. That's just what I most familiar with. Not trying to push that particular seat on you or anything! You can't buy it at babies r us with the trade-in anyways.

I said the Graco Nautilus because it is priced quite a bit lower than a frontier and I have heard it makes a good booster after being used as a harnessed seat. I think I would prefer a Nautilus as a booster rather than a Frontier as a booster.
(Actually I really prefer dedicated boosters over any harness-to-booster that I have seen yet. But you aren't ready to buy a dedicated booster, you said.)
Another harness-to-booster at a decent price is the Evenflo secure kid and that is also cheaper than a frontier.

 

[lgenne]

If you're looking for a narrow harness to booster, definitely check out the Harmony Defender. (Also not available at BRU, but much narrower than the others mentioned, and budget friendly.)

 

[Unregistered]

Those options were enormously helpful. Thank you!!

I like the idea of the 3rd option (mixing safety and convenience): placing one of the older (FF) boys next to the 20 month-old (RF) in the 3rd row with the infant car seat and other FF child in the captain's chairs.

I'm having a some trouble picturing how to install the 3rd row: do you think it is necessary to purchase both a Nautilus and a Radian? You did mention that the Boulevard could FF in the center of the 3rd row with the Radian RF next to it... Is that combo possible then or do you doubt that the Boulevard will fit? If so, I will buy the nautilus as well.

Here is another idea I have: could my 5 year-old (very mature, well behaved) do a high-back booster instead? I originally was more inclined for him to ride in a 5-point harness over a booster because very occasionally he will fall asleep in the car. But I'm not worried about him reaching for toys, looking out the windows, etc.. Could a high-back booster be the answer then bc it would help keep him positioned if he did fall asleep? They do not require tethering or latching, correct?

I'm so sorry to take up so much of your time.

 

[aept]

No problem - we here at this site like these kind of "puzzles"!

I think that a dedicated high back booster (no harness) is probably a reasonable choice considering what you have told us about the 5.5 year old boy. It really depends on the kid and while my oldest was in a booster most of the time me at that age, my second son is 6.5 years old and I still think he is not yet ready for full-tie booster. He's too impulsive. He has a booster in one car and a harnessed frontier 85 in our minivan.

A high back booster does not need to be latched or tethered. It will probably be enough support to help him sleep comfortably should he fall asleep in the car. (Some boosters have the ability to be latched in but this is more of a convenience than for any proven safety benefit. It just keeps the booster from being a projectile if unoccupied. You should buckle his booster when he isn't riding in the car but others are.)

If you go with the HBB, I would have him in the third row on one of the sides, and the RF 20 month old in the third row on the other side in a BLVD. This will make it easier for your son to buckle the booster as there will be a little space in the middle. It would be hard to buckle it next to a FF seat in the middle.

Then the 4 year old in a FF Blvd and the baby in the captain's chairs.

Unfortunately, I do not know for sure whether or not a FF Blvd in the center of the third row will fit with a Radian next to it.
I have a Dodge Grand Caravan which has a very similar set-up inside as to where the latch is available. I am basing my recommendations off of what I know from my van. I have not tried those seats in a Sienna. So for that matter I don't know for sure if the radian and nautilus would fit side-by-side either.
Someone else here may well have tried those combos in a Sienna but I haven't.

 

[Unregistered]

That really can change things around in this equation, then. Thank you for the reassurance that the high back booster might be a good option. Three final questions and hopefully this will close the loop for me!

1). Is there a high back booster in particular that you think might be a good option? I suppose that from now on I should only consider slim ones as we have so many children in the car. Slimmer options will have more flexibility in the future. I ask because online it appears that you can purchase a high back booster alone (as opposed to a 3-in-1 combination seat) and they are about half the price.

2). I'm not going to lie- I really liked the idea of my 5 yr old and 4 yr old sitting in the 3rd row together so that I can more easily attend to the youngsters in the 2nd row. Do you think I could purchase a narrow 5-point harness 3-in-1 convertible seat (like the Defender, as someone suggested) for my 4 year old so that it competes for less space than the boulevard next to the high back booster? I would have to go to the 3rd row every trip to check on the 4 year old's harness and the 5 year-olds belt anyway... I could help the 5 year old with securing his seat belt. Would this arrangement possibly work? I know it wouldn't be as easy for my 5 yr old but I would be there every time to help him with it. Just thinking it's a jolly lot easier than taking a tantrum-prone, stiff and rigid 2 yr old to the 3rd row to strap him in rear facing on a hot summer day!

3) At what age can a child move from a convertible car seat (like the boulevard) to a 5-point harness/ 3-in-1 combination seat, or are they essentially the same thing?

I know these probably seem like very basic questions but as I've never had these seats before, it's all new territory for me. I so appreciate your help. I don't know what I would be doing (or not doing) without the help of this site! One or two years ago I realized late into the game that I was meant to be tethering my forward facing son. I only found out that info and the importance of that step in this forum and I'm forever grateful.

 

[aept]

That really can change things around in this equation, then. Thank you for the reassurance that the high back booster might be a good option. Three final questions and hopefully this will close the loop for me! 1). Is there a high back booster in particular that you think might be a good option? I suppose that from now on I should only consider slim ones as we have so many children in the car. Slimmer options will have more flexibility in the future. I ask because online it appears that you can purchase a high back booster alone (as opposed to a 3-in-1 combination seat) and they are about half the price. 2). I'm not going to lie- I really liked the idea of my 5 yr old and 4 yr old sitting in the 3rd row together so that I can more easily attend to the youngsters in the 2nd row. Do you think I could purchase a narrow 5-point harness 3-in-1 convertible seat (like the Defender, as someone suggested) for my 4 year old so that it competes for less space than the boulevard next to the high back booster? I would have to go to the 3rd row every trip to check on the 4 year old's harness and the 5 year-olds belt anyway... I could help the 5 year old with securing his seat belt. Would this arrangement possibly work? I know it wouldn't be as easy for my 5 yr old but I would be there every time to help him with it. Just thinking it's a jolly lot easier than taking a tantrum-prone, stiff and rigid 2 yr old to the 3rd row to strap him in rear facing on a hot summer day! 3) At what age can a child move from a convertible car seat (like the boulevard) to a 5-point harness/ 3-in-1 combination seat, or are they essentially the same thing? I know these probably seem like very basic questions but as I've never had these seats before, it's all new territory for me. I so appreciate your help. I don't know what I would be doing (or not doing) without the help of this site! One or two years ago I realized late into the game that I was meant to be tethering my forward facing son. I only found out that info and the importance of that step in this forum and I'm forever grateful.

1. I like the Britax parkway a lot. I would also totally consider buying a Graco Turbobooster with safety surround. There is one on sale on Amazon now for $45. (I am considering buying it myself but I really don't think I need another spare! Very good deal!)
I think the Evenflo AMP is considered to be pretty narrow too, and the Clek boosters, but they are more pricey. There are probably some other great choices too.
Of the ones I listed the parkway adjusts the tallest so lasts the longest in high back mode.

2. You could certainly try getting both older kids in the back if you don't mind helping buckle. You might be scraping knuckles a little bit between the ff seat in the center and the booster but it's just as safe as the other setup if the ff seat is tethered. I agree it's a toss up and whomever you think will be more cooperative can head back there!

3. No safety difference between your four year old riding in a FF convertible vs a FF-only "combination seat" in harness mode. Kids can switch to any FF harnessed seat as soon as they outgrow RF in their convertible.

 

[smiley]

My oldest is in a parkway SGL in the 3rd row. It fits nicely back there. I admit I like my older in the back for ease of buckling themselves and they're in the car the least because of school so my more frequent riders are always closer to me. My older kids really aren't close to the 2nd row kids to help with much of anything though. At a light my oldest can bend over and pick something up, but while in motion they'd be too far out of their seat to do anything for a 2nd row kid. It's nice that my yougest has a good view of who's diagonally behind for when she is fussy.


I really want to say my Nautilus also doesn't have to top tether until over a certain limit, but of course it's recommended (maybe because mine is slightly older 2012?) But it has to pass whatever test to do it without the tether to that limit, then it fails over certain weight and becomes required usage. NHTSA used to publish the head excursion results which I think is why the top tether use is required/recommended. Some seats like diono pit it on their site, but most dont. If you really want to drive yourself crazy you could compare the seats that would allow no tether with results of whatever you're looking for with a tether to see how they compare. It might be close or they may be way different. If they're close it could give you more flexibility in putting your older kids harnessed at least for a little longer in the rear.

I personally didn't like the Nautilus as a booster because it's so deep the belt was always getting locked in the middle of the buckle attempt. Other than that it seemed to fit well.

 

[Unregistered]

I just wanted to update everyone on the car seat install...

I did end up purchasing a the a Britax Parkway SG for my 5 year-old. He sits on the outside 3rd row next to his almost 4 year-old brother (Ff Britax Boulevard.). My 20 month-old is RF in his boulevard in one of the captains chairs and I plan to place the infant car seat behind my driver's seat in the other captain's chair.

All seats fit perfectly and I am so happy with the Britax Parkway thus far. Very slender, we'll-constructed.

Thanks to all who helped!!!!! I so appreciate it.