SPB - Can you put a # to my angle?

[southpawboston]

the radian FFing is 34 degrees, and the MA RFing is 43 degrees.

 

[snowbird25ca]

the radian FFing is 34 degrees, and the MA RFing is 43 degrees.

Thanks SPB.

The SS1 was around 42* when we switched it for the Radian, so the MA should be perfect for the time being & we'll gradually start loosening off the tether & see how he does. :thumbsup:

How much difference did level vs. sloped make?

 

[o_mom]

Cool! Can you check mine?

RF RA:

FF DC:

 

[griffinmom]

What program do you use to get these angles? Photoshop? How do account for no horizontal reference line in the picture?

 

[snowbird25ca]

What program do you use to get these angles? Photoshop? How do account for no horizontal reference line in the picture?

SPB has CAD software, and for the rf'ing angle the reference is from vertical, assuming the vehicle is on a level surface, and then using the seat shell to mark where the child's back goes, and getting the angle from that. (Answering for him.. :thumbsup: )

 

[griffinmom]

I think the assumption that something is on a flat surface is a big one.

Why are we so concerned with numbers? Shouldn't RF seats be reclined according to manufacturer's instructions?

 

[azgirl71]

I think the assumption that something is on a flat surface is a big one.

Why are we so concerned with numbers? Shouldn't RF seats be reclined according to manufacturer's instructions?

RF seats should be reclined but need to between 30 and 45 degrees. I think people are just curious what thier angles are

ETA: With the instruction manuals I have read for converable CR's they all say between 30 and 45 degrees except for a newborn they must be at 45 degrees.

 

[snowbird25ca]

I think the assumption that something is on a flat surface is a big one.

Why are we so concerned with numbers? Shouldn't RF seats be reclined according to manufacturer's instructions?

Well, it would be a big assumption, except when we first did the just for fun thread (or whatever it was called,) the 2 requirements were a) level ground for vehicle & b) as straight on a shot as possible.

Speaking for myself, I'm curious not from an "my seat has to be exactly XX degrees point, but more curious what angle it is that my ds wasn't tolerating IYKWIM? So many people try and get their seats right at 30* for older babies, so I was just curious what angle was giving the head slump. (And I was curious what the radian was at, since people always complain at not being able to get it more upright, but I couldn't get it much more reclined than what it was & it wasn't reclined enough for ds.)

I always tell parents to watch their kids & that will tell them if the seat angle can be more upright or if it needs to be reclined more. In this case, I was already thinking about reclining it more, but was curious as to how upright it was. I don't think even my 2.5yr old would've handled a 30* angle - although I don't actually know what hers was... but I think as a "tool" - and I use the term loosely, the angle calculation is useful for showing over-reclined and too upright. And I found it helpful just looking through other people's pictures and seeing what angle went with it.. just from an eying the angle of a seat view.

But yeah, like azgirl said, it's primarily a curious thing. If I was installing a seat for a newborn, took a picture and the angle was measured at 40*, I wouldn't change a thing on the install - unless baby comes along and has head slump. (By head slump I mean chin directly down to chest... it's really the best indicator if a child is too upright.)

 

[griffinmom]

RF seats should be reclined but need to between 30 and 45 degrees. I think people are just curious what thier angles are

ETA: With the instruction manuals I have read for converable CR's they all say between 30 and 45 degrees except for a newborn they must be at 45 degrees.

If it is a curiousity thing, that's different.

The only correct angle for any RF seat for an infant is what the manufacturer says in the manual. That means some seats which are more upright than others may not be appropriate for some children.

I am an instructor; I'm aware of the 30-45 degree range. However, the exact number is not what matters. What matters is what the MANUAL for the carseat says. I have the manual for the Titan in front of me. It is absolutely silent on the number of degrees the seat must be for RF use. Rather the instructions state that the level arrow on the seat must be level with the ground. The Recaro Como says the seat should be reclined "approximately 45 degrees."

It is really outdated to say that a seat must be reclined to 45 degrees for all infants. That simply isn't true. You must follow the manufacturer's instruction -- that is the only rule which applies to all seats.

I think you may need to look at the current curriculum. The only answer that applies to every seat comes from each seat's manual. There is no one size angle that works for all seats.

 

[southpawboston]

well for those carseats out there that *do* state an angle range, i don't think there's a much better way to make sure you're within it. true, you have to do what your manual says. but if every manual was followed correctly, there'd be no need for techs.

 

[azgirl71]

If it is a curiousity thing, that's different.

The only correct angle for any RF seat for an infant is what the manufacturer says in the manual. That means some seats which are more upright than others may not be appropriate for some children.

I am an instructor; I'm aware of the 30-45 degree range. However, the exact number is not what matters. What matters is what the MANUAL for the carseat says. I have the manual for the Titan in front of me. It is absolutely silent on the number of degrees the seat must be for RF use. Rather the instructions state that the level arrow on the seat must be level with the ground. The Recaro Como says the seat should be reclined "approximately 45 degrees."

It is really outdated to say that a seat must be reclined to 45 degrees for all infants. That simply isn't true. You must follow the manufacturer's instruction -- that is the only rule which applies to all seats.

I think you may need to look at the current curriculum. The only answer that applies to every seat comes from each seat's manual. There is no one size angle that works for all seats.

I see you are an instructor. (I did not see until after I posted, but still would have posted the same) I did not post to get into a debate. I simply stated what my experiences have been. I am very aware of the current ciriculum and and a little offended that you would imply I am not. I read evry cr manual I own as well as everyone I have taught a caregiver to install. Of the seats I have dealt with they are to be reclined at 45 degrees for NB's. They don't have to stay that way. Only until they have better head control. I agree an exact number does not matter. I know many people whoi have been curious what the angle of thier seat is.

So I appologize for stating my experiences. You asked a question and I answered to the best of my ability.

 

[griffinmom]

I have no interest in debating. None.

The seats you have seen say 45 degrees. That's fine for those seats. What isn't fine is stating that all seats need to be reclined to 45 degrees. I can think of several instances in which a convertible is installed according to manufacturer's instuctions, but is still at an unsuitable angle for a newborn. The answer isn't to recline it further; the answer is to find an appropriate seat.

I mentioned the current curriculum because one of the current curriculum's biggest messages is "Read the manual." (whether it is the car seat manual or the vehicle manual). Each one is different. What you can't do is extrapolate from the manuals you've read to come up with a general conclusion about what the correct angle is for all seats. It just won't work. Techs should be out there reading the manual for seats every day. Things change constantly. I wish there was a rule about angles that applied to all seats, but there just isn't.

 

[southpawboston]

guys, stop fighting over me.

griffinmom, i agree that the manuals have to followed above all else. but we all know that some manuals are poorly written, vague, and sometimes even incorrect. some do not provide adequate instruction for achieving a proper installation in every car, given the wide variation of installation environment from car to car.

and for those carseat manuals that do specifically state an angle or range of angles, i know of no better way to *verify* that angle than this.

it's simply a verification tool, more accurate than the naked eye. just take it for what it's worth...

oh, and btw-- if people just followed the manuals to the letter, there'd be no need for techs... and tech instructors.

 

[griffinmom]

oh, and btw-- if people just followed the manuals to the letter, there'd be no need for techs... and tech instructors.

I'll have to add that if the manuals were well-written and were read thoroughly by parents, there would be less need for techs and instructors. Sorry, that's the farthest I can go!

 

[southpawboston]

but we all know that some manuals are poorly written, vague, and sometimes even incorrect.

therefore verification tools can be helpful.

 

[azgirl71]

I have no interest in debating. None.

The seats you have seen say 45 degrees. That's fine for those seats. What isn't fine is stating that all seats need to be reclined to 45 degrees. I can think of several instances in which a convertible is installed according to manufacturer's instuctions, but is still at an unsuitable angle for a newborn. The answer isn't to recline it further; the answer is to find an appropriate seat.

I mentioned the current curriculum because one of the current curriculum's biggest messages is "Read the manual." (whether it is the car seat manual or the vehicle manual). Each one is different. What you can't do is extrapolate from the manuals you've read to come up with a general conclusion about what the correct angle is for all seats. It just won't work. Techs should be out there reading the manual for seats every day. Things change constantly. I wish there was a rule about angles that applied to all seats, but there just isn't.

Me neither. I understand what you are saying.

 

[Defrost]

Um, sorry if this dredges everything back up, but I was very curious about the angle of my Husky because it's FF. It's harder for me to "eye" the angle of a FF seat.

 

[Mommy090804]

And the Radian is ff'ing beside it now, so it might be fun to put a # to it too since it's shell starts out so upright to begin with. I was able to get the MA slightly more upright in that center position with a little extra effort though, and I'd have no qualms about continuing to use it there like that.

I'd still really rather have ds in the Radian, but until he handles being at a more upright angle better, we'll just leave as is & hope that dd doesn't outgrow the MA before then.

Wow Trudy! That is really interesting about switching the seats. Yes, when I saw your OP, I thought the Radian was a little upright. I didn't even notice the MA until SPB measured the recline. Thanks for the heads-up in regards to FFing seats. We will likely be switching DD's MA to FFing in the next few weeks, and I'll watch the recline. We have a Radian on order, so she might be going into that sooner if the MA is too reclined. Interesting thread (minus the little debate!)...

 

[joolsplus3]

Wow Trudy! That is really interesting about switching the seats. Yes, when I saw your OP, I thought the Radian was a little upright. I didn't even notice the MA until SPB measured the recline. Thanks for the heads-up in regards to FFing seats. We will likely be switching DD's MA to FFing in the next few weeks, and I'll watch the recline. We have a Radian on order, so she might be going into that sooner if the MA is too reclined. Interesting thread (minus the little debate!)...

FF recline angle is actually meaningless, though. As long as your seat is installed in the upright mode and the base is flat on the vehicle seat cushion and the seatback for the car isn't reclined a lot, it's good. We've been speculating a little about FF recline angle being safe or unsafe, and there's really no indication that properly used FF seats are less safe if they are naturally reclined (as the MA often is...it's just a big ol' laying back kind of seat, lol). RF angle matters because that's what they measure in a crash test: How far back the seat rotates downward: the higher upright you start, the less down you rotate, the less injury risk.

 

[snowbird25ca]

FF recline angle is actually meaningless, though. As long as your seat is installed in the upright mode and the base is flat on the vehicle seat cushion and the seatback for the car isn't reclined a lot, it's good. We've been speculating a little about FF recline angle being safe or unsafe, and there's really no indication that properly used FF seats are less safe if they are naturally reclined (as the MA often is...it's just a big ol' laying back kind of seat, lol). RF angle matters because that's what they measure in a crash test: How far back the seat rotates downward: the higher upright you start, the less down you rotate, the less injury risk.

And this, my friends, is why if I could've a) gotten the radian much more reclined and B) had dh had enough room when I managed to get it reclined even a little more, dd would still be in the MA like that and ds would still be in the Radian.

I think ds actually liked the Radian better. I'm hoping a couple months growing time and I can try switching seats again - the low sides of the radian for winter is very appealing, and it's easier to buckle him in.