RV Safety

[carseatcoach]

And I think all cars should have top tethers in all seating positions, side-curtain air bags, and stability control. But they don't. So I can either choose a vehicle with those features, or deal with the lack of them.

We're not anti-LATCH. Many of us are anti the idea that LATCH is better, because stats don't bear that out.

 

[Maedze]

This is like an anti-LATCH forum or something. I'm not an idiot, nor do I have to be some certified tech to understand how to get something to tighten. I think some of you are arrogant because you have this tech thing associated with your name. I'm sorry, I think RVs should have LATCH. That's my opinion after dealing with both ways.

Jude's Dad, this is not an anti-LATCH forum. I'm sorry you think we're arrogant. Most of us are volunteers who work extremely hard on our own dime to help other parents, so I'm afraid that characterization is not exactly fair.

I absolutely agree with you that all passenger vehicles regardless of weight should have LATCH capability. However, that simply isn't the case. The fact is that RVs do not have LATCH, nor are they required to, nor are they likely to be required to any time in the forseeable future.

90-100% of parents install their seats incorrectly, LATCH or seatbelt. You understand that...that's why you came here for help, isn't it?

Our entire purpose is to help parents use their child restraints correctly and safely. If you would post a picture of the belt system you have, and tell us the age and weight of the child, and which child restraint system you are using, we'd be happy to help you.

 

[Melanie]

Something else to keep in mind is that vehicles have LATCH weight limits. They vary from manufacturer, but a lot are 40lbs for the lower anchors. Most kids aren't ready to come out of a harnessed car seat at that weight. I currently have a seat belt install in a space that has very easy to use LATCH because my child is over those LATCH limits. It might be less convenient, but it's no less safe.

I agree with you that vehicles should have things that they don't. Like someone else mentioned, lack of top tethers is a problem in a lot of family type vehicles. I've crossed several big SUVs off my shopping list because of this. But the fact of the matter is that todays vehicle regulations are what they are. They may get better in the future, but with buying a vehicle right now we have to live with certain things.

There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this board. I personally found that I didn't know as much about car seats as I thought I did. I've picked up info here that makes my kids safer. I hope you stick around and take advantage of the opportunity to bounce things off of trained techs.

 

[Pixels]

It doesn't really matter if your shoulder belt is mounted high, low, in the ceiling, or heck on the floor. It's the lap portion of the belt that does the work of restraining the seat. Once the lap portion of the belt is secured (using locking clip, built-in lockoffs, lightweight locking latchplate, or switchable retractor, depending on the vehicle and child restraint in use), the shoulder belt isn't in play any more.

 

[Judi]

I am for the system that gets me the best, easiest fit. Sometimes that is latch, sometimes not, like when the latch system made the car seat hover OVER the vehicle seat.

Most parents would be relieved to know that a seat belt will work. My cousin also makes RVs, I have discussed with him the need of head rests, deeper seats, etc.

 

[Maedze]

I'd love to see RVs required to have at least four rear forward facing seating positions with head rests, lap shoulder belts, and a full set of LATCH.



I'd also like to see passenger vehicles required to have LATCH in all rear vehicle seating positions. This whole '3 sets of LATCH in a minivan' thing does not jive well with 'common sense' standards.

 

[Jude'sDad]

I think the federal government mandated LATCH for a reason in passenger cars. I just think RV's should have LATCH as well. It makes the same kind of sense weather you follow that logic or not. Why one and not the other?

My wife has LATCH in her car = It's easy and tight. I have LATCH in my Range Rover = easy and tight. I do not have LATCH in the van = Pain in the ass and isn't quite as tight without practically standing on the damn thing. How is this even arguable?

I am trying to gather support for that. If you aren't on board, fine.

And yes, the fact that the shoulder strap is super high makes it a chore to install. True, it probably is possibly as safe once installed properly. My argument is that how often will parents not install a difficult seat or base with a crying demanding baby as opposed to a simpler set up?

The arguments on here suggest that LATCH has been a horrible failure in regard to a safer instal than regular seatbelt installation and pretty much a useless mandate.

 

[Maedze]

Jude's Dad, I'm really baffled at how you're interepretting what we're saying. :scratcheshead:


No one is arguing with you on the subject that LATCH needs to be more uniformly available (and standardized from vehicle to vehicle). We ALL think that.

We also know, from cocurrent decades of experience, that the LATCH system was poorly implemented and unfortunately has not done what we thought it would. We all thought it would increase correct use. It hasn't. The numbers are the same.

There are also errors outside of being 'tight'. People make plenty of mistakes with the LATCH system. Chances are nearly 100% that you have an error in your child seat installation, in your vehicle with LATCH, if you haven't consulted a CPST.

Our job is to make sure that parents install their car seats correctly. The position of the shoulder belt really doesn't make a difference. I promise you. We really do want to help you, if you'll let us.

 

[Admin]

This is like an anti-LATCH forum or something. I'm not an idiot, nor do I have to be some certified tech to understand how to get something to tighten. I think some of you are arrogant because you have this tech thing associated with your name. I'm sorry, I think RVs should have LATCH. That's my opinion after dealing with both ways.

LATCH may be easier in many cases. If it provides a solid fit, it is just as good as a seatbelt. If it provides a more secure installation, it is usually preferred, especially for rear-facing child seats. I always prefer to use LATCH when it is appropriate and works well. Other parents and technicians may have better success or feel more confident with a seatbelt.

Ultimately, the issue comes down to government regulations, not with being a certified technician. In their infinite wisdom, the government excluded some classes of vehicles for the requirement. They also didn't make the standard such that it covered child restraints above 40 pounds. Finally, they didn't have any requirements for the design or position of the anchors, such that compatibility would be greater over a wider variety of models.

I would say that there is not a single advocate or technician on this forum that would be against improving the LATCH standard to cover a wider array of vehicles and improve compatibility and weight ranges. That would improve safety and we are all for that.

 

[LISmama810]

Jude's Dad,

I understand that you're frustrated about your RV not having LATCH, but I don't understand why you're taking that out on us.

We were trying to help by explaining that you likely CAN get a perfectly safe install without LATCH since that is likely your only option in this scenario.

We are also trying to explain that while sometimes parents can achieve a better, faster installation with LATCH, sometimes they can't. LATCH is not the solution to all car seat problems.

It sounds like you're having some difficulties getting a tight fit in your vehicle. We'd be happy to help you troubleshoot some solutions that might make that easier.

 

[Jude'sDad]

Pic

Here's how high the strap is.

 

[LISmama810]

Ah, an Orbit.

Well, that seat takes a few more steps to install (with LATCH or a seatbelt) than most other seats. Whether you use the belt or LATCH, you still need to twist the knob on the seat.

I have only installed the Orbit three times--all with the seatbelt--and never had a problem. Of course, none of the belts came from that high, but I don't see how that would make a difference. I suppose it could, though.

In your original post, you said that the seatbelt installation isn't "good enough." What is the exact problem you're having? When you check for tightness, you want to check ONLY at the belt path--not at the front of the seat (toward the front of the vehicle). Even the most tightly installed seats can be loosened that way.

Also, like I said before, you just want to give a moderate tug with your non-dominant hand. You don't need to TRY to loosen it--you just want to make sure it's snug. As long as the seat moves less than an inch AT THE BELT PATH, you're good.

Also, when you install, are you putting the belt through the lock-off? (I think there's a lock-off on that seat--it's been a while), and you're turning the tightening knob, right?

It's hard to tell for sure from your photo, but it looks like your seatbelt locks at the latchplate. If that's the case, most seats should install about the same way as they do with LATCH. Buckle and tighten--no need to pull the belt all the way out. It usually helps to pull the belt right next to the buckle instead of on the other side of the seat.

 

[Jude'sDad]

The way you see it installed seems to be the most secure way I have been able to do it based on Orbit's videos and trial and error. Maybe when the smoke clears that long seat belt is fine, but pulling 12 feet of strap is quite a pain!

Thanks for the info.

Ah, an Orbit.

Well, that seat takes a few more steps to install (with LATCH or a seatbelt) than most other seats. Whether you use the belt or LATCH, you still need to twist the knob on the seat.

I have only installed the Orbit three times--all with the seatbelt--and never had a problem. Of course, none of the belts came from that high, but I don't see how that would make a difference. I suppose it could, though.

In your original post, you said that the seatbelt installation isn't "good enough." What is the exact problem you're having? When you check for tightness, you want to check ONLY at the belt path--not at the front of the seat (toward the front of the vehicle). Even the most tightly installed seats can be loosened that way.

Also, like I said before, you just want to give a moderate tug with your non-dominant hand. You don't need to TRY to loosen it--you just want to make sure it's snug. As long as the seat moves less than an inch AT THE BELT PATH, you're good.

Also, when you install, are you putting the belt through the lock-off? (I think there's a lock-off on that seat--it's been a while), and you're turning the tightening knob, right?

It's hard to tell for sure from your photo, but it looks like your seatbelt locks at the latchplate. If that's the case, most seats should install about the same way as they do with LATCH. Buckle and tighten--no need to pull the belt all the way out. It usually helps to pull the belt right next to the buckle instead of on the other side of the seat.

 

[carseatcoach]

I wonder if a different seat might work better? I realize that is an inconvenience and an expense, but it would be less than the $5000 quoted for LATCH.

 

[Maedze]

It looks like you've got heavy-duty locking latchplates on the belt, which is actually good news That means you don't have to worry about pulling out the shoulder belt from the retractor in the wall. That sort of belt works pretty much the way LATCH does, when it comes to tightening the strap.

The other good news is that it looks like it's a gen-u-wine seatbelt, bolted to the frame of the vehicle, and not just there to look pretty, which is GREAT!


Your installation looks good (obviously this is just looking, not touching!). Remember to check for less than 1" of movement side to side and back and forth at the belt path.

The Orbit is a fancy seat. Are you currently using the infant seat mode or the rear facing convertible? Remember that the best thing you can do to ensure your child's continuing safety is to keep him rear facing in a convertible until he outgrows it by height or weight. Most kids can stay rear facing to at least three years old.


On a separate note, related to RV safety, RVs tend to have a LOT of unsecured stuff just hanging around. The last thing you want is your baby to get biffed by a flying picture frame or toaster oven in a low-speed impact. Make sure everything is properly secured.

When I was little, my grandparents had a HUGE RV. They used to take us kids on trips, and it really built some great memories for me

 

[murphydog77]

Re: Pic

Here's how high the strap is.

Thanks for the picture . It looks like the StrongArm knob has been twisted all the way already, which is pushing it out away from the seat back instead of torquing it down into the vehicle seat like it's supposed to. Did you reset it (untwist it) to 0 before you installed the base? The "roller" piece on the bottom of the base should be as close to the bight, or crack, of the vehicle seat as you can get it. I don't think you should have any other trouble with that seat belt and the Orbit.

There's an anchor piece showing about half-way up the window--what's that connected to? It's obviously there to position the shoulder belt on an adult's shoulder, but I'm curious if it's connected to the vehicle seat or the floor and how.

 

[lynsgirl]

Ah, an Orbit.

:ROTFLMAO:

That is too funny that you said that - I said those exact words out loud when I saw the picture . Ok, that's all that I have to contribute right now. hehe nak

 

[LISmama810]

I had a thought--and I have no idea how valid this thought it, so I'm not endorsing it, merely throwing it out there.

Is the captain's chair removable? If so, would a Town & Country captain's chair be compatible with it? If so, it would have LATCH. I figure since it's the same company, it might be, but obviously there are a lot of other factors. It might be something you want to look into if you really want LATCH.

ETA: Nevermind. In looking at the photo again, the seat appears to be sitting on a platform, so probably not.