LATCH weight limits (spin-off of LATCH vs. seatbelt)

[twokidstwodogs]

It is pretty puzzling in practice. We own cars by two of the manufacturers with the widest range of LATCH limits -- Honda (40 lbs) and Subaru (60 lbs). To the untrained eye, there's little difference in the anchors. Has Subaru actually run tests on its LATCH system that Honda hasn't? Or is Honda just that much more conservative about the results of the tests that it *has* done?

 

[snowbird25ca]

Debbie - You're RTFM was too darn funny.

Someone commented about Ford lower anchor limits. The last private check I did with a Ford vehicle (I think it was the Freestyle,) the manual listed limits of 48 & 60 for harnessed seat & vest respectively. I was quite shocked to see the limits right in the manual.

It is pretty puzzling in practice. We own cars by two of the manufacturers with the widest range of LATCH limits -- Honda (40 lbs) and Subaru (60 lbs). To the untrained eye, there's little difference in the anchors. Has Subaru actually run tests on its LATCH system that Honda hasn't? Or is Honda just that much more conservative about the results of the tests that it *has* done?

And that, my friend, is the million dollar question.

 

[Defrost]

My DH and I were talking about this the other night, and he asked me about wither the LATCH bars are welded on, or if they are poured in when they pour the bars....(Ie in the warehouse as one solid frame...so to speak). In His opinion, if they are welded on....than they would have an earlier breaking point, than ones that were poured as a whole frame. As the ones that are poured they would be a solid structure, and it would be no different than having the seat belts attached to the seat frame.

Interesting... I've got two vehicles with LATCH and I can pull the seat apart one way or the other on both of them to see how the anchors are attached. I can tell you with certainty that the TOP tether anchors are welded to the interior of the vehicle seat frame in the Mazda 5's third row, having examined it very closely. Not sure about the lower anchors, though. I'll have to go check once I'm feeling well enough to brave the daylight. I'm also fairly certain that the seat belts are not welded - they are bolted, in the VW at least.

 

[tl01]

It is pretty puzzling in practice. We own cars by two of the manufacturers with the widest range of LATCH limits -- Honda (40 lbs) and Subaru (60 lbs). To the untrained eye, there's little difference in the anchors. Has Subaru actually run tests on its LATCH system that Honda hasn't? Or is Honda just that much more conservative about the results of the tests that it *has* done?

I have wondered about this for a long time. Why would one manufacture make a LATCH limit of 40 lbs and another 60?

Personally I think by not having a standard for all auto manufacturers, it just creates another area for misuse and confusion. Very few parents realize that there is a LATCH limit and even fewer realize that it can vary from car to car. If LATCH was created to simplify things then IMO opinion, each LATCH point should be the same and the limits should be printed more clearly.

 

[BookMama]

I fall between 1 and 2, closer to 1, I think.

I specifically asked Artie Martin (GM safety engineer, also on the national CPS board) about this at a CEU event in February. She said it's all a matter of what the vehicle manufacturer is willing to accept liability for. Part of her presentation described how they test to make sure the LATCH meets the requirements. Basically, they pull on the LATCH anchors until they withstand a certain force, then they stop testing. (So basically, they all test to the same limits.) She said they don't test past that required limit because if they tested until it broke, the testing weight and the broken LATCH anchors would become incredibly dangerous projectiles.

Personally, I think the reason that 40/48 lbs is the limit for most vehicles is because when LATCH was developed, there were very, very few car seats that even went past 40 lbs. I mean, if they tested to accomodate HWH seats today, do you think they would test up to 100 lbs? But who knows whether they'll have mainstream HWH seats that will accomodate 100 lbs in, say, 8 years.

I agree with those who said that if the LATCH limit was so, so critical, that manufacturers WOULD make the information more available to consumers, if only as a CYA effort. (Like, say, putting it in the manual, of all the crazy ideas.)

*DISCLAIMER: I don't intend to use my LATCH anchors past their stated limits, and I don't encourage anyone else to either.*

 

[Defrost]

What video?!? I *need* to see dog dummies.

http://www.immioutdoors.com/petbuckle/sledtest.htm

Doggie crash-test dummies. I still find it so charming. I wanna see cat crash-test dummies, too. And horse crash-test dummies, to test horse-trailer safety. And cow crash-test dummies.

Yes, I am easily tickled.

 

[snowbird25ca]

http://www.immioutdoors.com/petbuckle/sledtest.htm

Doggie crash-test dummies. I still find it so charming. I wanna see cat crash-test dummies, too. And horse crash-test dummies, to test horse-trailer safety. And cow crash-test dummies.

Yes, I am easily tickled.

:ROTFLMAO: Easily tickled - love it!

 

[joolsplus3]

Man, I had the best response typed up and the board or internet died for a minute...well, I'll pare it down.

I was saying IMMI trust it's connectors for those high weights because they make the dog harnesses... and those IMMI clips are basically just like a seatbelt, with the hardened steel inside. Paul Butler said (either on CPSPList or Lifesavers, it's been awhile now) that during Ford's extensive testing of top tethers at very high weights, it wasn't the anchors that broke, it was the steel hooks on the tether straps. Those are the standard steel hooks we all have for top tethers, and most have for lower anchors. Anyway, I just think that's an interesting tidbit.

 

[snowbird25ca]

Man, I had the best response typed up and the board or internet died for a minute...well, I'll pare it down.

I was saying IMMI trust it's connectors for those high weights because they make the dog harnesses... and those IMMI clips are basically just like a seatbelt, with the hardened steel inside. Paul Butler said (either on CPSPList or Lifesavers, it's been awhile now) that during Ford's extensive testing of top tethers at very high weights, it wasn't the anchors that broke, it was the steel hooks on the tether straps. Those are the standard steel hooks we all have for top tethers, and most have for lower anchors. Anyway, I just think that's an interesting tidbit.

That is really interesting - especially when you take into account that Britax had a recall on MA tether hooks that could fail at 50lbs and higher.

 

[joolsplus3]

That is really interesting - especially when you take into account that Britax had a recall on MA tether hooks that could fail at 50lbs and higher.

I totally forgot those.

I wonder why they don't just make tether hooks out of hardened steel...like a seatbelt buckle or belt shortening clip are made with...is it THAT much more expensive, I wonder?

 

[Airforcemomma]

If IMMI makes better hooks and connectors, would you feel comfortable using a Safeguard seat installed with LATCH to the 65lb limit or would you install the seat with seatbelt at 48lbs. Assuming no weight limit is given by the vehicle manufacturer?