Kyle Miller in the news again :)

[RubysGirl]

quick question, Heather, what is the reha-partner recaro start plus? At the bottom of that document it's listed as going to 80lbs

 

[RubysGirl]

nevermind, I found it.

 

[o_mom]

That's dependant on whether one is using the BF or FF charts, I would imagine, because I saw the chart during my son's physical.

Interesting, I didn't know they had charts beyond 5 years that were different? I'm only aware of the WHO charts. I wonder what chart your son's doctor was using?

I would still say that the CDC charts are the most representative of the US population, which is what SK is aiming at. On that chart, the 79 lb 9 yo male would be 90th percentile in weight. Since we don't know actual height of that dummy, it is hard to say if it is representative of a child who is taller than normal or an overweight child.

 

[skaterbabs]

Honestly, I don't know. She may have factored in his height? I'll ask her next time I see her, but unless someone gets sick that probably won't be until July.

 

[o_mom]

Honestly, I don't know. She may have factored in his height? I'll ask her next time I see her, but unless someone gets sick that probably won't be until July.

Ahh... that could have been on the BMI charts which is more informative for medical types.

 

[Splash]

Yeah, she might have been giving you his weight for stature percentile.

 

[murphydog77]

It's a Recaro Start with a 5-point harness built in. The harness is for positioning only since the seat is still a bpb. I'm not sure why that seat is listed on the page.

 

[skaterbabs]

POssibly, he's certainly not overweight at all.

 

[ajweeks]

Ugh, what makes me frustrated is that the foundation does not make the distinction between a just over 40 lb. 3 year old in a booster seat versus a 60 lb. 7 year old. Older kids are much safer in boosters than kids under 5. Parents shouldn't be made to panic when their older, heavier children are in boosters.

I think it is wonderful that the foundation is trying to help parents with younger, heavier or tall children buy new seats so those kids are safer, but the strange obsession of 80 lbs. when most kids will never make it to 80 lbs. in any seat is annoying. My son, who is just turning 5 and around 47 lbs. most likely will never make it to 80 lbs. in his Regent. He will outgrown it by height well before that.

I'm sorry for Kyle's loss and we all want to help others keep their kids safe, but just don't panic everyone unnecessarily in the process. And also focus on some of the other lower priced higher weight seats, when they fit the child, so you can have the funds to help more people.

 

[scatterbunny]

I think Hayley has a pretty good chance of making it to at least 70 pounds in the Regent, given her slow torso growth the past couple of years. At about 8.5 years old she should be about 56 inches tall and 70-75 pounds if she stays on the same growth curve she's been on for about a year. I know the Husky/Regent's height limit is technically 53 inches, but she's still below the second-to-top slots, so I think she'll easily make it another 8 inches in this seat.

 

[griffinmom]

Re: Kyle Miller in the news again :-(

However, through our foundation website, we have tried to make sure that people get correct information about car seat safety - including LATCH weight limits etc.

Please do go visit the site. I think once you do that, we may have a different viewpoint. We would really like to work together. We all have the same aim here and that is to keep children as safe as possible.



We would love to have a CPS involved with the foundation and in fact are in talks with a few people already about this.

My question is this -- why on earth are you trying to reinvent the wheel? There are excellent child passenger safety organizations on the national and local levels. Why aren't you partnering with these people? These organizations have solid research behind them. Why aren't you working WITH them instead of insisting on forming your own foundation? Why aren't you piggybacking on the research that already exists? By taking such a position in forming your own foundation, do you doubt the current research out there? Do you doubt the people who work so hard in the child passenger safety world to keep children safe? The formation of a separate foundation implies that the organizations currently available are somehow inadequate as sources of information for parents. Do you actually believe this?

You are "in talks" with a few CPS [technicians]? About what? If you don't have the backing of this well-informed group, whose opinion are you relying on?

There are so many dedicated people in this field who actually WORK TO SAVE CHILDREN'S LIVES. The work they do saves lives. It really does. Why are you so determined to undermine the years of work CPS technicians have done? You have created doubt and fear in parents and this is unfortunate, to say the least. You say we all have the same aim here (I think you mean goal). Why not work with us?

 

[tjham]

Re: Kyle Miller in the news again :-(

My question is this -- why on earth are you trying to reinvent the wheel? There are excellent child passenger safety organizations on the national and local levels. Why aren't you partnering with these people? These organizations have solid research behind them. Why aren't you working WITH them instead of insisting on forming your own foundation? Why aren't you piggybacking on the research that already exists? By taking such a position in forming your own foundation, do you doubt the current research out there? Do you doubt the people who work so hard in the child passenger safety world to keep children safe? The formation of a separate foundation implies that the organizations currently available are somehow inadequate as sources of information for parents. Do you actually believe this?

You are "in talks" with a few CPS [technicians]? About what? If you don't have the backing of this well-informed group, whose opinion are you relying on?

There are so many dedicated people in this field who actually WORK TO SAVE CHILDREN'S LIVES. The work they do saves lives. It really does. Why are you so determined to undermine the years of work CPS technicians have done? You have created doubt and fear in parents and this is unfortunate, to say the least. You say we all have the same aim here (I think you mean goal). Why not work with us?

Wow, this is exactly what I was thinking but could not put into words!
Well said!

 

[skaterbabs]

I think Hayley has a pretty good chance of making it to at least 70 pounds in the Regent, given her slow torso growth the past couple of years. At about 8.5 years old she should be about 56 inches tall and 70-75 pounds if she stays on the same growth curve she's been on for about a year. I know the Husky/Regent's height limit is technically 53 inches, but she's still below the second-to-top slots, so I think she'll easily make it another 8 inches in this seat.

Yeah, my boys were both over 70 lbs when they outgrew it.

 

[honeybee03]

I have to agree with what a lot of people have said here.
I post on a very popular mainstream parenting board, and I was so frustrated with a lot of the things people were saying after watching it:
For example:
"Seatbelts aren't safe! Always secure with the latch anchors"
The video DOES make the impression that LATCh is safer than seatbelts. Its says that seatbelts often fail, and that if Kyle would have been secured in a carseat with latch, he would have lived. Actually if he would have been in a carseat that was secured with LATCh, there is a good chance that he would have been ejected, since he was over 40lbs (the weight limit on many LATCh anchors).
I have LATCh in my car, and I use my seatbelts every time. Seatbelts are meant to hold 300 pound adults. LATCh anchors are tested to hold 40lbs in a 30mph crash (since they only do crash testing at 30mph) Can I trust that in a 40, 50, 60mph crash, the LATCh anchors will hold up, when I KNOW a seatbelt will???
I agree that seatbelts can and do fail. But what makes the LATCh system invincible from having failures that are just as common?
I also see people using LATCh for center installs where its not allowed because they think that its unsafe to use the seatbelt (after watching the video)
In the video, there is a comment that says "Always use the top tether, it will offer a second line of defense if the seatbelt fails" HUH?? The top tether is meant to reduce head excursion. I cannot see the top tether holding a carseat/child in the car all by itself (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
After watching the video, I have seen people say "Now that I know about the top tether, I don't have to struggle so much to get the seat in so tightly, because the top tether will hold it in anyway"
I have also seen A LOT of people say they use both systems after watching that video, so you shouldn't just brush it off as "we can't help it if people took it that way" (even though you made no attempt at clarifying never to use them together)

Also, you have to realize that the vast majority of the people that watch the youtube video are not going to go to the foundation website. You really should change the video to clarify that seatbelts are JUST AS SAFE as latch, WHEN USED CORRECTLY. And not make all the blame on his death simplyl on the seatbelt, but the fact that he was improperly restrained (he should have never been in a booster in the first place)
Emphasize the REAL reasons the 5 pt harnesses are safer (which they are, but it doesn't have anything to do with seatbelt failure):
-They fit children under 5 better than seatbelt/boosters
-They assure that they are properly restrained (not leaning over or putting seatbelt behind them
-the sidewings of the carseat offer side impact protection
-the force of the crash is more evenly distributed across their body in a 5 pt than an adult belt
-they have less of a chance of abdominal injury (I believe by 20%)
-they can top tether, which reduces head excursion
NOT because they are any safer from seatbelt failure in them

I just really wish that there was a 5pt harness video I could give to people that emphasized the REAL reasons that 5pts are safer, without the mass hysteria over "common" seatbelt failure, inducing improper LATCh use.

Ugh, sorry for the long post, but for the past couple months, I have been dealing with the wrath that this video has created in the parenting community and it gets frustrating, trying to get them to accept CORRECT information.
It is also heartbreaking to listen to people who feel like horrible parents because they cannot afford a $$270 carseat. And then trying to reassure them that their kid will be safe in a $99 Apex.

 

[AdventureMom]

There is the Belle video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2LFo8vVi04 about a 3-yr-old who was killed by the adult seatbelt on her abdomen, even though she was in a booster...

My issue with some of the misinformation out there is that it starts making the general public think that they know more than the engineers/manufacturers about how to keep their child safe. And then they start doing things not tested or recommended, or using the LATCH incorrectly, etc. It's hard enough to get parents to use CRS and belts/LATCHes correctly. Then when there's fear/distrust of the whole system, people start taking matters into their own hands (and heads ) and doing things that aren't safe, rather than the most important message that should be out there: make sure you child is secured properly in a seat for their age, weight, height, and needs. There are several options out there, including and in addition to the Regent and Radian.

 

[becca011906]

As others have said i wanted to stay off this thread... but i just can't...

I am very sorry for the lose of Kyle and can't imagine how the Miller family feels....

I just wanted to address the quote about WIC ... i work for them here in IN and they DO NOT give out car seats... NO NO NO... (we dont' GIVE out formula either, but that's whole other topic, BF is best). There is a program and many in Indiana that give out car seats to Familys IN Need. and they do screen income guide lines as well. I just completed my Tech courses and durring out seat check partnered with State Farm Insurance (where the class was held) we did give seats to familys in need, we didn't screen income but you kinda know whats a family in need vs a family looking for a free hand out just b/c (so sad that there are familys that would do this and take from familys that really have a need), although State farm has to offer seats to all families regardless of thier income... Anyways they did send two 3 year olds away in APEX 65s b/c they were over the 40lbs mark but still only 3 years old. these seats are becoming much more seen at check points and programs to help familys that do need seats. it's a geat choice, and will harness most kids to 6.5 or so when a booster is a very exceptalbe option...
On that note my own 6 y/o is in a booster, has been since he was 3.5 (that was 3 years ago b4 i knew of the dangers ect.) when i started CPS research i did take him out of his no back cosco booster into a britax park way for the TSI protect. My just turned 4 y/o was in a turbo booster w/ back when i found this site and with her only being 34lbs at the time i moved her to a radian 65... NOT and 80, i would never choose that seat except (very off chance) for a very husky child that the parents car needed to fix 3 across, ect.

 

[honeybee03]

There is the Belle video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2LFo8vVi04 about a 3-yr-old who was killed by the adult seatbelt on her abdomen, even though she was in a booster...

My issue with some of the misinformation out there is that it starts making the general public think that they know more than the engineers/manufacturers about how to keep their child safe. And then they start doing things not tested or recommended, or using the LATCH incorrectly, etc. It's hard enough to get parents to use CRS and belts/LATCHes correctly. Then when there's fear/distrust of the whole system, people start taking matters into their own hands (and heads ) and doing things that aren't safe, rather than the most important message that should be out there: make sure you child is secured properly in a seat for their age, weight, height, and needs. There are several options out there, including and in addition to the Regent and Radian.

You couldn't have said this better. That is what I was trying to say, but you did a better job. The video is making people distrust the professionals, and taking things into their own hands doing unsafe things. I know of several moms who are using 3-in-1 seats, and put their 4-5 year olds back in the harness (even though they are over 40lbs) because "adult seatbelts aren't safe" and they think that the weight limit is just a ploy by the manufacturers to sell more products I think that their 5 year old who were ONCE pretty safe in their boosters, are now VERY UNSAFE using the harness above the weight limit.
That video you gave was somewhat better than the Kyle video, but there were still a few comments in there that bothered me. For instance "Keep your child in a 5pt harness as long as possible" They don't mention that most seats only harness to 40lbs and there are also height limits to them, or that there are many seats out there that harness to 65 or even 80lbs. Like I pointed out earlier, I can see this causing parents to keep their children in a CR as long as they "fit into it".
It also says "always anchor and tether the seat into the car for extra security" I don't think I have to point out why that could cause problems.

Anyway, I think the point I am trying to make is that when parents put out videos about this type of thing that is going to reach thousands of parents, they better consult a professional to make darn sure they are sending out correct and safe information.

 

[becca011906]

I know of several moms who are using 3-in-1 seats, and put their 4-5 year olds back in the harness (even though they are over 40lbs) because "adult seatbelts aren't safe" and they think that the weight limit is just a ploy by the manufacturers to sell more products I think that their 5 year old who were ONCE pretty safe in their boosters, are now VERY UNSAFE using the harness above the weight limit.
That video you gave was somewhat better than the Kyle video, but there were still a few comments in there that bothered me. For instance "Keep your child in a 5pt harness as long as possible" They don't mention that most seats only harness to 40lbs and there are also height limits to them, or that there are many seats out there that harness to 65 or even 80lbs. Like I pointed out earlier, I can see this causing parents to keep their children in a CR as long as they "fit into it".

I saw this just the other day durring out car seat check, a mama came in with her nanny in the nannys car with the moms 2 kids outboard, and the nanny's child center all three across a subara outback, they did a pretty good job of installing them, but when the moms child outboard driver side was waiting in the car, we asked him how old he was, he was 5 y/o and i said really... lets get out and go see how big you are, well he was 43lbs, but mom said she saw some video about how dangerous boosters are for kid so she put him back into that, it was a combo seat with harness... it took us a LOT of time and talking to convience her that he was safer in it as a booster, she then pulled a no back turbo out of the hatch and said that he used it in dads car from time to time but often tries to pull the seatbelt over his sholder and behind his back, welll then we showed her how to engage the ARL of the blet so he couldnt' move... and she felt better like that. and we then told her about other high weight limit seats that are on the market if she really wanted to get her son one...