Question harness to booster combo install problems in center of 2012 enclave

[Unregistered]

Hello all,
We have a 2012 Buick Enclave with 2nd row bench seat. We currently have a Racaro como in the center position using the latch system.

We want to keep her in the 5 point harness as long as possible. We have been looking for a harness to booster combo seat with 5 pt harness for our child now that she is bigger. We are wanting to keep it mounted in the center position but will need to use the shoulder/lap belt for install (since she will be too big to use the latch system).

We went to a local store and tried to install the britax frontier, racaro prosport and the diono radian rxt. NO OF THEM FIT GOOD!

The center seat belt does not have much space (the area is designed for a smaller person) as compared to the 2 side seats.

Can anyone recommend a harness to booster seat that might fit better in this location or maybe a trick to get it to fit tighter or even someone in middle Tennessee that might be able to help?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Pixels]

According to http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=20869, a forward facing Radian in the middle is doable.

How old, heavy, and tall is your daughter?

 

[Jeanum]

Hi and welcome to car-seat.org. I wanted to address using LATCH in the second row center in your vehicle because I noticed you indicated you've been using LATCH to install your current carseat there. Your Enclave has two dedicated sets of lower LATCH anchors in the second row passenger side and second row driver's side (known as the "outboard" positions) and intended for use in those outboard seating positions only. GM doesn't allow you to use an innermost lower LATCH anchor (known as "borrowing" in carseat lingo) from each side to do a center LATCH install, so I'm very relieved to read that you're ready to switch to using the vehicle seatbelt to install any 5-point harnessed carseat in the center from the standpoint that the seatbelt is the only proper/allowable installation method for that center seating position.

In addition to posting back with your child's stats (does she weigh 48 lbs. or more? I'm guessing so since you stated she has maxed out the LATCH install weight limit, which is 48 lbs. in GM vehicles), you can also check the post at http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=59135 to see if there is a certified child passenger safety technician and car-seat.org member in your area to contact for in person installation assistance. That same post also has the link for the Safe Kids technician locator, too, if there isn't a car-seat.org member technician listed near you.

 

[Unregistered]

she weighs 33 lbs, 38 inches tall

 

[Unregistered]

she is 3.5yrs old, 33lbs, 38in tall. we cannot get a tight install using seatbelt in center position with any seats we have tried (recaro prosport, britax frontier85, sunshine radian rxt) or with current como. suggestions for better install using seatbelt or other carseats to try would be appreciated.

 

[Unregistered]

Thank you for the 2 responses! Como was installed by 4 state troopers at a carseat check station with the "borrowed" latches, thank you for letting us know that is not correct! I have moved her to outboard position for now, but would appreciate any suggestions for getting a good fit with seatbelt in center 2nd row position. Is it ok to use dycem/antiskid rubber mat under the carseat to get it more snug?

 

[Jeanum]

Although I've personally used several of the carseats you have or have tried (Como, Radian80, Frontier and Frontier85), I don't have specific pointers for a center seatbelt install in your Enclave, other than don't resort to using an antiskid mat to achieve the installation. The carseat installation by itself needs to have less than 1 inch of movement at its belt path without using the mat to substitute for adequate tightness.

Have you considered trying out a Graco Nautilus? Apologies if I overlooked you mentioning it in your posts. The Nautilus tends to be relatively install friendly IMHO including seatbelt installation, but again I can't promise if it would be compatible in that challenging second row center spot in your Enclave. If you're near a Babies 'R Us store, you could consider trying to test install the store's display model Nautilus to see if it's workable in your Enclave. BRU stores generally allow customers to test install display model carseats in the store's parking lot if you ask at the customer service counter and leave your driver's license as collateral at the counter.

You also still technically have the option of installing a carseat outboard with LATCH if you haven't already tried that with the carseats you're considering since your DD weighs 33 lbs and is under your car's 48 lb. child weight limit for using LATCH to install, although an outboard seatbelt install is also always an option. LATCH isn't considered better than a seatbelt installation nor vice versa, so long as the installation is an allowed install method for the vehicle seating position with less than 1 inch of movement at the carseat's belt path.

 

[Unregistered]

Thank you for the suggestion!!! Tried a nautilus tonight and it is best fit so far in the center position with exactly 1 inch side-to-side motion. I plan to try some other brands I had not previously considered in hopes of finding a better center fit.

Radian, prosport, frontier85 all had more than 1 inch in center, but have good installs in outboard. We want to buy something that will fit beyond latch limits and harness for a long time. She is outgrowing her como in leg length.

In your opinion, is it safer to be rock solid in outboard or have an inch of wiggle in center?

 

[Jeanum]

Exactly 1 inch of movement at the belt path is close but not quite there because technically there needs to be less than 1 inch of movement at the belt path for it to be considered a proper install. Center is considered safer than an outboard installation provided that you can achieve a proper installation there with less than 1 inch of movement at the belt path because it's farther away from potential side impact collisions.

 

[ketchupqueen]

Sometimes with really difficult installs (you may already have tried this) I get my husband to come put weight in the seat, while I pull from directly next to the buckle. Then I have him give a good hard "BOUNCE" and yank a little more slack out, and that often gives me the extra little oomph I need to get to less than 1" of movement.

 

[joolsplus3]

I know you want a longer lasting seat, but the Como won't be outgrown till her shoulders are just above the top slots, or her ears are above the top of the seat shell... my almost 8 yo still almost technically fit in the Como... https://picasaweb.google.com/104971860341203318894/RandomCarseats#5111639649978471794, I'd expect you could get another couple years in the Como, and it's certainly a safe, comfy seat for a preschooler.

 

[snowbird25ca]

The Como isn't available in Canada so I can't speak of it. But these are the other seats I've had in there ff'ing.

- Radian
- Evenflo Triumph (Fit rf'ing as well)
- My Ride
- Complete Air
- Classic Marathon

I wouldn't even entertain putting the Frontier in that center position - it's simply too wide for how narrow that position is.

The trick with the Radian is to pull it as tight as you can from the front of the seat, then lock the seatbelt and pull anything extra out that you can and check for movement. Sometimes it will be tight enough already at this point, but if it's not, then you need to unbuckle the belt and carefully allow about 1" of webbing to go back in to the retractor and re-buckle. This may need to be repeated a few times depending on how close to tight you had it the first time.

You'll definitely want 2 people to get the seat in there - I can do it by myself, but I wouldn't expect most people to be able to do it on their own. The re-buckling is the hardest part, and the webbing will slightly turn in the latch-plate when you're close to having it tight enough.

The Triumph and Complete Air are both relatively easy installs. The most difficult part of the Complete Air is being able to get the belt buckled, but seeing as you're not trying to be able to buckle a booster on the driver side, you'll have a bit of an easier time with it than I did. :thumbsup:

One thing to be careful to check in that center position is for front-to-back movement. It's quite easy to get the radian tight side-to-side, but it can still move a good 3 to 4" front to back even when it's tight side-to-side, and that front to back movement will allow the entire installation to loosen up. So that's the movement that's most difficult to get rid of with the Radian. The Triumph and Complete Air were both easy though.

I've never tried my Nautilus in that center seating position and my husband is out with the car right now, but I might be able to try it in the next few days since I have to empty out my truck in preparation for a course next week anyways.

How did the Nautilus base fit between the seatbelt anchor point and the seatbelt stalk? I'm unsure about the width in that area and would question how well it would fit width-wise in terms of actually sitting properly there.

eta: the first post on this page: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=20869&page=3 has up close pictures of how the belt ends up once the radian is tight. I found the Radian installed better there without the small ff'ing recline adjusted downwards. That's a tip people often give to help get the seat to not slide forward, but it made it worse in my truck based on my recollection.

 

[Unregistered]

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!! We will try some of these install tips and hopefully get a good center fit with the como and stick with it for a little longer.

The nautilus is narrower at the back of the base and just fits between the seatbelt stalk &
anchor, prosport and frontier were too wide for center. I do want to give the radian another shot in the future-- I have contacted the CPT nearest me and I am going to see her at a checking event in a couple of weeks to learn more and become a better installer!

Then, armed with better technique, i will go shopping again.

 

[BeautifulChaos]

Did you happen to try the long belt path with the Frontier?

 

[Unregistered]

Yes, tried LBP but center seatbelt too short. Got great fit with LBP in outboard, like the frontier and it is a frontrunner if we eventually dont find a good center fit.

Thanks again everyone, the pics & tips are so helpful, I am learning a lot and appreciate it!

 

[snowbird25ca]

Did you happen to try the long belt path with the Frontier?

Also, for anyone else reading, that belt is spaced so narrow that *if* the seat actually physically fit in that position width-wise, the seat belt wouldn't likely be long enough for lbp install - and even if it was, short belt path would be a better choice.

But the issue isn't with getting it tight - the issue is that the position is physically too narrow for a seat as wide as the frontier to fit. I have used my truck as an example in class before to see how fast students spot incompatibilities. Seats fit there, but other seats are outright incompatible and there is nothing that anyone could do to make them compatible in that position.

Not all seats fit in all vehicles, and it's great that the OP is trying different seats so that she can keep her little one in the seating position she wants to use. :thumbsup:

 

[Unregistered]

Thanks to all the tips and some practice, I have installed the Como and Nautilus both successfully in center 2nd row, less than a half inch side-side, zero front-back movement! By myself, no help from hubby!

Going to stick with Como and try Diono again later. The CPST I contacted has a Radian, so I can try hers at the check event coming up. Plan to return the Nautilus for now because if I am able to install Radian, it will harness taller and booster heavier than Nautilus.

Again, thanks to everyone. This new vehicle was giving us trouble, but now my girl is safe.