Getting someone to go to a check?

[ninejr]

How do you convince a friend to go to a car seat check if their reason for not going is "I don't want to go to these things because what if my seats don't pass"?
I want to tell her that they are just checking that they are not expired and installed properly and if they aren't installed properly then they will help her get them in correctly. The thing is I have seen her seats and would guess that they are expired (although I don't know and haven't asked).
Also what will happen at the check if her seats are expired? (in Alberta)

 

[Shanora]

She will be informed that her seats are expired and she needs to replace them. We will also explain to her WHY seats expire and let her know that if pulled over at a seat check event in the city, she wont be allowed to leave with the seats, and that she will be required to provide non expired seats (either by having someone else go buy them or having someone else pick her up in non-expired seats).

 

[selinajean]

I would respond something to the effect of, "Wouldn't you rather know so that you can work on fixing it? That's like never going for your medical exams for fear that they may find an abnormal cell."

Reassure her that she isn't going to face legal prosecution if the tech finds something wrong. The tech will help her to make it better. However, if her seats are expired or not properly installed and she doesn't take the steps towards fixing it she could actually be ticketed if she was ever pulled over. (I don't know that she would be ticketed, but it would be within the law to fine her for not properly using seats.)

I don't know about Alberta's procedures with checks. I don't think the techs there have a lot of support as far as donation seats go. If I was doing a check here and a seat was expired I would still work with the parent to make sure that it was safely installed and properly used. I would really enforce the importance of them buying new seats and make some suggestions that would work for them and their budget. I would document like crazy the fact that the seats were expired, but that is about it. The tech won't take away her seats. It's not ideal but in reality a properly used and installed, yet expired, seat is better than no seat at all.

 

[selinajean]

She will be informed that her seats are expired and she needs to replace them. We will also explain to her WHY seats expire and let her know that if pulled over at a seat check event in the city, she wont be allowed to leave with the seats, and that she will be required to provide non expired seats (either by having someone else go buy them or having someone else pick her up in non-expired seats).

I was still typing when you posted. Good to know!

 

[QuassEE]

"Better to know now that it's wrong, versus when it's too late..."

-N.

 

[Shanora]

I don't know about Alberta's procedures with checks. I don't think the techs there have a lot of support as far as donation seats go. If I was doing a check here and a seat was expired I would still work with the parent to make sure that it was safely installed and properly used. I would really enforce the importance of them buying new seats and make some suggestions that would work for them and their budget. I would document like crazy the fact that the seats were expired, but that is about it. The tech won't take away her seats. It's not ideal but in reality a properly used and installed, yet expired, seat is better than no seat at all.

YES at a seat check, document, document, document. Can't take the seat away. The RCMP have the powers to do that, but a tech doesn't.
We are here to educate and inform the parents.
Also we always make sure that the child leaves safer than they arrive. I would walk a parent through on making an expired seat leave safer than arrived, but I wouldn't actually put my hands on the seat. CYA.

 

[QuassEE]

Legally, it's questionable whether or not the RCMP has the ability to confiscate a car seat. It's still personal property, and it's not being confiscated in association with a crime for any future investigatory or penal action. When I see expired seats here, I make them as safe as possible and recommend immediate replacement. If they replace the seat right away, I ask them if they're willing to give the seat to me for disposal (recycling, in WA).

-N.

 

[Shanora]

Ahhh ok, good point. I was told a while back, that the Police can take the seats, or not allow you to transport a child in them.

 

[ninejr]

Maybe they can't confiscate them, but they do not allow you to transport a child in them? Just a thought

Sam are you going to be at the seat check in Spruce Grove? I know Shauburg will be here and she though at least one other tech from on here would be here as well.

 

[QuassEE]

They can not allow someone to use the seat--for sure. However, I'm sure that even the police understand that a seat is better than no seat--provide the information, make the situation as safe as possible, and wave bye-bye. It sucks, but parents are going to do what they're going to do.

Here's something that happened with a friend (who I no longer speak to, because of this)--he bought a used, expired and recalled 3-in-1 for his newborn premie daughter. She was under 5lbs upon release, and he showed up with the 3-in-1. They wouldn't let them leave...so he went to the store, and bought a KeyFit. Great, right?

He returned it and used the 3-in-1 once they got out of the hospital.

I only take seats if I can replace them, right then and there, or if the parents have replaced the seat and I'm helping them put the new seat in. ...And only with permission.

-N.

 

[mam521]

My friend just ran into this issue with her friend...her friend has an Adovcate....installed incorrectly. It wasn't tight, it wasn't tethered, it was a disaster. Her friend's excuse...its hard to tighten the harness RF and the RF tether was annoying. My friend just about lost it. So, her solution...she signed them BOTH up for a carseat clinic and told the friend she had to come to watch her kids while the techs checked her install and my friend would then return the favor when the roles reversed.

If a carseat is expired, can the police not cut the harness, rendering it unuseable but still within its owner's posession guaranteeing a child can't be transported in it? Probably not, but food for thought, right?

I'm losing my faith in the police - first my dayhome provider is told flat out she likely wouldn't be ticketed if ever pulled over and her seats were found to be untethered at the top and second, the Beaumont officer saying seats were CSA approved. Why is substandard considered acceptable? I don't get it. In an extreme case, it could be considered police assisted suicide!

 

[Shanora]

Yes I'm going to be at the clinic this Saturday!! Looking forward to it.

Mam521, was the seat installed rfing? Because the tether is not required for rf, for FFing YES, but not rfing.

Not if they don't know any better.....Not CRST Trained, and even if they are, when was the last time they updated their knowledge.

Its frustrating.

 

[ninejr]

Sam, I don't know if I will come (seeing as you checked my seats not that long ago) if I do it will be to get a friend to come. (Or it will be to get someone else to tell my DH that he needs to get B's harness tighter).

 

[snowbird25ca]

She will be informed that her seats are expired and she needs to replace them. We will also explain to her WHY seats expire and let her know that if pulled over at a seat check event in the city, she wont be allowed to leave with the seats, and that she will be required to provide non expired seats (either by having someone else go buy them or having someone else pick her up in non-expired seats).

I just want to clarify on this comment a little. Police won't hold somebody for a slightly expired seat - they generally aren't even checking expiry dates at roadside checks.

They will hold somebody who doesn't have a seat for a child until somebody comes to provide an appropriate restraint for the child, but so far as an expired seat? It would have to have obvious damage/missing parts/etc that put the child in obvious immediate danger in order for them to hold the vehicle and require a replacement seat be provided in order to transport the child home.

 

[snowbird25ca]

Oh - as to the original question? I'd just tell her that you have it on good authority that the techs there have seen so many different errors that we don't think anything of it - our focus is on fixing what needs to be fixed so that the child is transported safely. It's not a pass or fail - every parent is doing the best that they can do based on the information and skills that they have - and nobody can be faulted for that. :thumbsup:

(And you're welcome to copy and paste this to her - it's something that I really reinforce heavily when I train new techs - always work with the assumption that the parent is doing the absolute best they can and that you are there to help them succeed.)

eta: I'm 99% sure I'm taking my kids to a fall fair at our community league on Saturday, so I think this is going to be the first public check I've missed in years. It feels kind of strange actually...

 

[Shanora]

Thats ok Trudy, you WILL be missed!! HAve fun with your kids though...a way better time IMO. And I'm sure Rae and I will be able to fill you in on the day....lol

 

[mam521]

Shanora - it was a Britax clinic at E-Children in Calgary, so of course their installers were bent on a RF tether on one of their seats. The lady's car actually has a dedicated RF tether location, so more fuel for the Britax tech's fire.

We were just happy that they taught mom how to get the seat itself tight and they taught her how to tighten the harness properly. My friend had visited a clinic previously, but was willing to do anything to "bribe" her friend there to ensure the baby's safety. Apparently now that the seat is installed properly, the tether and the tight harness are no longer an issue to mom.

So, quick question to the never ending debate of RF tethering...Britax doesn't specify that you have to RF tether, rather they suggest the carseat's performance is improved by its use. If you scroll down into the Versa tether portion of the manual, it gives the impression that a RF tether is required:

NOTE: Britax child seats are shipped with the tether connector strap
attached to the Versa-Tether® hook. When not in use with rear-facing
installations that have designated tether anchors or forward-facing
installations, store the tether connector strap in the tether pouch.

The manual continues to state the procedure by which to create a RF tether location using the D ring.

Ultimately we're supposed to install using mfg directive. If neither is specified, then whats correct?

Also on another thread, Wendy had mentioned something about a RF tether not being pulled tight, but yet the Britax manual states the following:

8 Verify there is tension in the tether strap and that child seat is properly secured.
• The child seat is secure when it cannot be moved front-to-back or side-to-side more than 1 in. (2.5 cm) at the belt path.

So, whats right? I'd say manufacturer's direction, but thats general rule of thumb for compliance, is it not?

 

[Shanora]

Is this in the new Britax Manuals or the manuals for the older seats? The issue with over tightening the tether when RFing with the older style Britax, is that it can actually break the recline foot, and so when you go to put the seat upright for FFing, it doesn't let you.

Yes, the wording is correct. That being said, the tether should always be done up AFTER the seat is installed properly with less than 1" of movement. Its not supposed to help assist with the instal of the seat, its supposed to support the instal of the seat.

Britax of course recommends that you RF tether their seats. They've tested their seats with it, and support its use. That being said, its not required and it doesn't have to be done. If the parent chooses to have it RF tethered then we can show them how to do it and how to find a RFing tether point.

I mention it to people, but I also tell them its not required, and that if they want it done I can show them how. Most people choose to not have it done.

 

[mam521]

The manual I sourced that from was for my older ('08) Boulevard. I haven't had a chance to peer into a new style seat's manual. And, we have sufficient carseats for everyone atm. Note, I say sufficient, doesn't mean I don't want more

I understand the RF installation should NEVER rely on a RF tether. It just seemed odd to have someone say its not supposed to be tight and the manual kind of says otherwise. It makes sense when you say the recline foot can break though.

I consider myself a fairly educated person and try to learn more and this forum is an invaluable resource for that. But there are a lot of people who don't care AND don't even read the manual carefully that would misinterpret the wording on that. Another friend is a perfect example...she has her Advocate RF using the Australian method of RF tethering and was pulling it so tight the seat base was lifting off the vehicle seat because she thinks it needs to be tight like in the FF install. She doesn't understand that the top tether serves a different purpose RF vs FF. I told her to losen it or not use it. She prefers to use it, but her DH won't allow her to create a tether point with the D ring...go figure!