Question General and specific Qs re: installing carseats in a truck (Diono RXT in Dodge Dakota)

[trinalb]

Hi all, helpful forum! :happy-wavehello:

We are thinking of buying a Dodge Dakota extended cab ('93 I think) from a friend. I haven't actually seen it yet and am not sure if I will get a chance before DH decides on it. He is going to try the RXTs in it but he is not as concerned with carseat safety as I am , so I'd like some advice here, please. We have two RFing RXTs at the moment, one of which will likely turn within the next 6 months to a year when DS reaches the weight limit. This will be our secondary vehicle and not used often for the kids but it sure would be nice if we could get both carseats to work in it. Our current secondary vehicle can only have one carseat installed so, worst case scenario, that is liveable too.

So, my questions are:

Are there any safety issues in regard to installing carseats in the front seat of a truck? Aside from airbags, I mean, which we will check on. I think you aren't supposed to install carseats in the front seat of a car, SUV, etc., so does this hold true for trucks? If so, what is the safety concern, specifically? If not, why are trucks exempt from this rule (or am I misunderstanding it)?

Is it ever possible to get a RF install in the back of an extended cab? Is this any safer considering they are right by the glass? How about FF in front or back seat?

Would DS be safer FF in this (or any) truck than RF? Front seat or back? I don't want to debate age/weight because our plan is to RF him as long as possible but just wondering for this vehicle since it won't be used often.

And specific to RXT/Dodge Dakota:

Has anyone ever installed RXTs (or other seats) in a '93 Dodge Dakota? Please share your experience and any issues that may have arisen.

Can RXTs RF in the front or back seat? Which position(s)?

Can RXTs FF in the front or back seat? Which position(s)?

Thanks!

 

[safeinthecar]

Radians will fit neither rfing nor ffing a 93 Dakota extended cab backseat. There are other seats that will, but we'd need the age/weight/height of the children in question to make a suggestion.

If you are not set on the vehicle, I would suggest looking for a Quad cab version if you want to use the Radians.

 

[trinalb]

Radians will fit neither rfing nor ffing a 93 Dakota extended cab backseat. There are other seats that will, but we'd need the age/weight/height of the children in question to make a suggestion.

If you are not set on the vehicle, I would suggest looking for a Quad cab version if you want to use the Radians.

Thanks for your reply! Can you elaborate? I was doing a bunch of searching and found some info that suggested it should work to install RF in rear centre position if the front centre seat is flipped down. So you don't think this will work? And why does it not work FF?

DD is 21 months and somewhere around 30 lbs and maybe 33 inches? DS is 4 1/2 and around 42 lbs and 42 inches. Buying different seats (or a different truck) is not something we are really considering at this point. We don't really have the funds to do either and we're only considering this truck because it's a deal from a friend.

 

[safeinthecar]

Thanks for your reply! Can you elaborate? I was doing a bunch of searching and found some info that suggested it should work to install RF in rear centre position if the front centre seat is flipped down. So you don't think this will work? And why does it not work FF?

DD is 21 months and somewhere around 30 lbs and maybe 33 inches? DS is 4 1/2 and around 42 lbs and 42 inches. Buying different seats (or a different truck) is not something we are really considering at this point. We don't really have the funds to do either and we're only considering this truck because it's a deal from a friend.

There's a gap between where the bottom of the rear seat and the back rest come together that the Radian foot falls into rfing and you can't get at least 80% of the car seat on the seat ffing.

Luckily, one of the cheapest car seats on the market, the Cosco Scenera ($35ish) does fit rfing and ffing in the center. You could then put your 4yo in a Graco Turbo Booster outboard and spend about 65 dollars total on new seats.

 

[trinalb]

There's a gap between where the bottom of the rear seat and the back rest come together that the Radian foot falls into rfing and you can't get at least 80% of the car seat on the seat ffing.

Luckily, one of the cheapest car seats on the market, the Cosco Scenera ($35ish) does fit rfing and ffing in the center. You could then put your 4yo in a Graco Turbo Booster outboard and spend about 65 dollars total on new seats.

I did a quick search on the Scenera and the lowest price I see in Canada is about $82-90. Is $35 only in the U.S.? And I'm seeing varying claims of RFing ability from 30-40 lbs. If it's 30-35 lbs that doesn't really help us much since I think DD is already just over 30 lbs naked weight. Is there anything besides the RXT and Foonf (cheaper) that RF to 45 lbs now? Or any budget seats that RF to 40 lbs? I got DH to take a pic when he tried installing the RXT into the back seat. It's not a great pic but hopefully you can see enough. Is it really not okay? He said the foot wasn't "falling" into the crack any more than it would be in another vehicle. Granted, he's not a safety expert, nor nearly as concerned with car safety as I am, but that's what he said. What is the issue with having the foot in the crack?

As I mentioned before, I really am not wanting to buy new seats unless it is absolutely necessary. If they were budget seats up to equivalent standards I might be able to swing it, though. I am not willing to turn DD FF, though, not am I willing to jump DS all the way from RF into a booster. I am barely comfortable with considering FF DS in a harness, knowing the difference in safety compared to RF. So, if I do have to turn DS FF, are there any good, budget seats out there, that will keep him FF for a long time? Is he safer to be FF in the back seat or RF in the front seat, or is there any data available on this? Thanks!

 

[safeinthecar]

Just sitting it there doesn't show much. You have to install it and see what happens. You are working with a 3 year newer truck than the one I tried a Radian in, so I could very well be wrong. Since you already own the seats (I thought you were looking to buy them still for some reason) you have nothing to lose by giving it a shot.

 

[trinalb]

Just sitting it there doesn't show much. You have to install it and see what happens. You are working with a 3 year newer truck than the one I tried a Radian in, so I could very well be wrong. Since you already own the seats (I thought you were looking to buy them still for some reason) you have nothing to lose by giving it a shot.

Okay, so I went and tried installing the seat myself and, in my non-CPST opinion, it installed very nicely RF in rear centre position. The crack didn't appear to interfere at all, but I'm not sure if there's an issue regarding the crack that I'm not aware of. What is your opinion of this install?

 

[safeinthecar]

First thing I see is that the seat belt isn't locked properly. When I tried it (in my neighbor's '90, there may be slight differences due to the model year that will make it work in yours) I had to untwist the female end and push down really hard until I could get the buckle fully into the belt path. This left the foot 100% in the crack and resting on the metal in the bight and it slid side to side more than an inch.

 

[trinalb]

First thing I see is that the seat belt isn't locked properly. When I tried it (in my neighbor's '90, there may be slight differences due to the model year that will make it work in yours) I had to untwist the female end and push down really hard until I could get the buckle fully into the belt path. This left the foot 100% in the crack and resting on the metal in the bight and it slid side to side more than an inch.

What do you mean by not locked properly? The seatbelt clicked and didn't loosen when I tried to wiggle the seat side to side.

 

[safeinthecar]

What do you mean by not locked properly? The seatbelt clicked and didn't loosen when I tried to wiggle the seat side to side.

See the way the buckle it perpendicular to the webbing going through the belt path? That means it is in unlocked mode. It may appear tight at first due tot he tension on the belt, but it will loosen over time as you go over bumps and stuff, and will loosen really suddenly in a crash. You need to get it so that at least a little bit (a quarter inch is enough) of webbing and the buckle make a straight line.

 

[trinalb]

See the way the buckle it perpendicular to the webbing going through the belt path? That means it is in unlocked mode. It may appear tight at first due tot he tension on the belt, but it will loosen over time as you go over bumps and stuff, and will loosen really suddenly in a crash. You need to get it so that at least a little bit (a quarter inch is enough) of webbing and the buckle make a straight line.

Wow, that is scary to read about because I think we had the carseat installed like that the entire time we had our last vehicle :jaw: According to this site the seatbelt is a Locking Latchplate, right? If I read correctly here, then, I just have to flip the latchplate around 180 degrees to keep it from loosening, correct? Assuming I can get it tight enough that way

 

[safeinthecar]

Wow, that is scary to read about because I think we had the carseat installed like that the entire time we had our last vehicle :jaw: According to this site the seatbelt is a Locking Latchplate, right? If I read correctly here, then, I just have to flip the latchplate around 180 degrees to keep it from loosening, correct? Assuming I can get it tight enough that way

You could try just flipping it, yes. It does work, I just couldn't get it to work in my experimentation. I did take a crashed Radian over to my neighbor's truck to try it out for you, LOL. I'm really hoping that there's enough differences between 90 and 93 model years that it makes it work. The fabric of the seats in my neighbor's truck is different, so maybe?

 

[trinalb]

You could try just flipping it, yes. It does work, I just couldn't get it to work in my experimentation. I did take a crashed Radian over to my neighbor's truck to try it out for you, LOL. I'm really hoping that there's enough differences between 90 and 93 model years that it makes it work. The fabric of the seats in my neighbor's truck is different, so maybe?

Thanks for going to all that effort! Darn, I was thinking it was a definite yes today after I tried it Oh well, I guess I'll have to try to go back tomorrow to try it again and see what I can manage. I was in such a time crunch today because I just ran over there while DH watched the kids on his lunch break, so I didn't get a proper try in the front seats, either. I am really hoping for rear, though.

 

[trinalb]

Or wait, couldn't I just use a locking clip with the installation as is? I think I read that on that first link I posted.

ETA: Nevermind, I read further and it says it can't be used with a lap only belt.

ETA again: Possibly a belt shortening clip, though?

 

[Brigala]

Or wait, couldn't I just use a locking clip with the installation as is? I think I read that on that first link I posted.

ETA: Nevermind, I read further and it says it can't be used with a lap only belt.

ETA again: Possibly a belt shortening clip, though?

A belt shortening clip might be OK as a last resort, but they're not really designed for that particular purpose and they have to be threaded a certain way - NOT like a locking clip. I'd feel a lot more comfortable with the rear-facing seat in the front if there is no passenger side air bag, and perhaps you can get a better forward-facing install in the back for the older child (although, since you're in Canada, the problem of required top tethering comes into play with forward facing).

If you would like some suggestions on budget options for other car seats that might fit, you would want to post in the Canadian and International forum. A lot of us here really don't know what's available in Canada, and for what price. Often the same car seat in the US has different "rules" in Canada (such as different height or weight restrictions) so we can only make stabs in the dark, really.

 

[trinalb]

A belt shortening clip might be OK as a last resort, but they're not really designed for that particular purpose and they have to be threaded a certain way - NOT like a locking clip. I'd feel a lot more comfortable with the rear-facing seat in the front if there is no passenger side air bag, and perhaps you can get a better forward-facing install in the back for the older child (although, since you're in Canada, the problem of required top tethering comes into play with forward facing).

If you would like some suggestions on budget options for other car seats that might fit, you would want to post in the Canadian and International forum. A lot of us here really don't know what's available in Canada, and for what price. Often the same car seat in the US has different "rules" in Canada (such as different height or weight restrictions) so we can only make stabs in the dark, really.

DH said there is an airbag that can be switched off. Someone on another thread said they wouldn't trust that, though. Are the switches unreliable?

I wish I had looked at the other seatbelts in the rear to see what they were like. I saw the lack of space and didn't bother looking but now I'm wondering if the RXT might install in the passenger side with the angle adjuster or if the Sureride (which someone recommended to me) would work as a second RF seat even if I can get the RXT centre.

Any thoughts on whether FF rear or RF front is safer for DS general, airbags and install issues aside? I know RF would definitely be the choice for DD because of her size, but does DS's size increase the safety of FF enough that it is equally or more safe than RF in the front, considering the greater risk of front seats compared to back? And on another note, does the close proximity of the rear wall to the child RF in the back of a truck impact the safety much if at all, compared to a car, SUV or van with open space behind?

Good point about the Canadian forum! And about tethers. Hmmm. I'm not sure if there are anchors or if they can be placed.

 

[safeinthecar]

A belt shortening clip might be OK as a last resort

A Belt shortening clip can't be used at all on that type of lapbelt. They are for the kind with a retractor in the seat, not for the kind with a tail.

If the airbag turns off with a key, rfing in the front seat will be very safe.

 

[trinalb]

There are updates in the new thread if you wouldn't mind looking Here is a link:

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?p=2522861#post2522861