Gen 3 seatbelts

[henrietta]

For those techs or engineer types who can understand vast amounts of data better than I:

We are looking at a very well cared for, original owner, 1997 Chrysler T & C, which has Gen 3 seatbelts in one or both back rows.

Would you buy a vehicle w/these belts?

We have one child of our own who is transported daily in my vehicle (currently a 1995 Mercury Villager/rf'ing Britax Dec), and we have a 6 yr old niece and 2 year old nephew who ride w/us every few weeks. Our niece is in a booster, and our nephew is huge and ff'ing in a high weight harnessed carseat. We also transport our friend's 2 year old dd often, but never all 4 kids at once. It's either 2 or 3 kids at a time.

Are the Gen 3 belts in the second row only or also in the third row? How can I find out?

Thanks!!!

henrietta

 

[skaterbabs]

Not only does my car have Gen3 belts, I have all three of my kids literally sardined into the back seat. If the car fits your needs, I would not consider the seatbelts a dealbreaker unless you have another option that also meets your needs.

 

[henrietta]

"Not only does my car have Gen3 belts, I have all three of my kids literally sardined into the back seat. If the car fits your needs, I would not consider the seatbelts a dealbreaker unless you have another option that also meets your needs."

You aren't worried at all? What do you think of the info (what little it may be) that people think that the belts may fail, esp in rollovers or w/carseats?

I have a hard time picking thru that info, AND my own experience w/Chrysler in the past shapes that as well. They don't have a good track record for honesty in these situations (death, lawsuits, etc). My Dad and my brother both had Jeep Cherokees that I'm sure had Gen 3 seatbelts, and we never had a problem that I can remember (and I drove them many times). But one of my friends died in a Jeep Cherokee due to a default that Chrysler refused to recall.

Thanks for sharing! I am going to go and look at it tomorrow w/my dad. One of his engineer friends is the original owner and all maintenence has been done like it should be.

The benefits of it over my current '95 Mercury Villager are that it has 2 sliding doors on the sides, can have ta's in all/most seating positions, and that it's newer and needs less repairs to keep it going.

Any other thoughts anyone?

Thanks!

henrietta

 

[AdventureMom]

We have a Jeep Wrangler with Gen 3 seatbelts. When I first heard of the issues, I was paranoid about it... .... But I realized that although there *may* be issues, it doesn't mean it's not safe. They obviously work because there are tons of them on the road. We have two children in the back of our Wrangler with Gen 3 belts.

Having said that, if we keep the vehicle long enough for DS to outgrow a restraint with a good solid back on it, we'll be replacing the back bench seat because it's a low-back seat without headrests. When/if we do that, we'll probably have the belts replaced as well, not just b/c of the Gen 3 belts but also because they're getting old and tattered.

But I wouldn't let it keep me from buying a vehicle with Gen 3 belts.

 

[Kalinky]

We have a Jeep Wrangler with Gen 3 seatbelts. When I first heard of the issues, I was paranoid about it... .... But I realized that although there *may* be issues, it doesn't mean it's not safe. They obviously work because there are tons of them on the road. We have two children in the back of our Wrangler with Gen 3 belts.

Having said that, if we keep the vehicle long enough for DS to outgrow a restraint with a good solid back on it, we'll be replacing the back bench seat because it's a low-back seat without headrests. When/if we do that, we'll probably have the belts replaced as well, not just b/c of the Gen 3 belts but also because they're getting old and tattered.

But I wouldn't let it keep me from buying a vehicle with Gen 3 belts.

Same here! We have a 2000 Wrangler - I was a paraniod nut about the Gen 3 seatbelts at first too. I'm over it now after learning more about it. It's a perfectly safe vehicle in my opinion. DD rides RFing in a Scenera in it. It is our secondary vehicle and backup carseat for when DH picks her up from Grandma's 1-2 times per week (now that I'm back in school).

Regarding Gen 3 seatbelt replacement - I thought that they will only replace them with "new" of the same Gen 3 seatbelts? Has that changed?

 

[henrietta]

"Regarding Gen 3 seatbelt replacement - I thought that they will only replace them with "new" of the same Gen 3 seatbelts? Has that changed?"

Good question! I hope to find out from the dealer today, but per everyone's answers I think I'm going to take a look at it for sure.

Thanks so much for answering and allaying my concerns. I figure if CPST's w/kids are using these belts w/no problem, I can feel more safe with them.

Thanks!!!

henrietta

 

[skaterbabs]

Regarding Gen 3 seatbelt replacement - I thought that they will only replace them with "new" of the same Gen 3 seatbelts? Has that changed?

No that has not changed.

Honestly, the majority of the information coming out regarding Gen 3 seatbelts is froom personal injury lawyer's websites.

That said, perhaps I didn't stress the last part of my first post quite enough:

IF you DO have another option that DOES meet your family's need EQUALLY as well as this vehicle does. (As in, all other factors are equal), then YES, I would consider Gen3 seatbelts a dealbreaker.

HOWEVER, if you do NOT have another option that meets your families needs (whatever they may be) as well as THIS vehicle, then I would NOT consider it a dealbreaker.

Does that make sense?

 

[skipspin]

We have a Jeep Wrangler with Gen 3 seatbelts. When I first heard of the issues, I was paranoid about it... .... But I realized that although there *may* be issues, it doesn't mean it's not safe. They obviously work because there are tons of them on the road. We have two children in the back of our Wrangler with Gen 3 belts.

Having said that, if we keep the vehicle long enough for DS to outgrow a restraint with a good solid back on it, we'll be replacing the back bench seat because it's a low-back seat without headrests. When/if we do that, we'll probably have the belts replaced as well, not just b/c of the Gen 3 belts but also because they're getting old and tattered.

But I wouldn't let it keep me from buying a vehicle with Gen 3 belts.

Ditto about our 97 Wrangler.
Although, we will probably have three kids by the time DD is too big for most high-back boosters or a Radian/Regent so we may have already gotten rid of it...

 

[Kecia]

I'm going to be the voice of dissension here.

We had a '95 Grand Cherokee with Gen 3 buckles once upon a time. It had them in the front seats and in the rear outboard seats. I was unaware of the issues associated with these buckles at the time that this vehicle was purchased in 2001. After I became aware of the potential problem I was very concerned about the risk of ejection if we ever crashed in that vehicle. One day, just to see what would happen, I buckled myself in the front passenger seat and gave the buckle a slight (and I do mean slight) karate chop with the side of my hand. The buckle unlatched. Needless to say, that was not what I had hoped for. It's very easy to see how that could be a huge problem in a crash when body parts and objects are flying around. I never felt safe in that vehicle after that. I was thrilled when we finally sold it a few years later.

If you already own the vehicle and then find out after that it has these belts - that's one thing. I don't expect people to get rid of a vehicle that they already own because of something that is only a potential problem. However, knowing what I know now, I personally would never consider purchasing another vehicle that had Gen 3 belts.

Just my :twocents:

Kecia

 

[abacus2]

I'm going to be the voice of dissension here.

We had a '95 Grand Cherokee with Gen 3 buckles once upon a time. It had them in the front seats and in the rear outboard seats. I was unaware of the issues associated with these buckles at the time that this vehicle was purchased in 2001. After I became aware of the potential problem I was very concerned about the risk of ejection if we ever crashed in that vehicle. One day, just to see what would happen, I buckled myself in the front passenger seat and gave the buckle a slight (and I do mean slight) karate chop with the side of my hand. The buckle unlatched. Needless to say, that was not what I had hoped for. It's very easy to see how that could be a huge problem in a crash when body parts and objects are flying around. I never felt safe in that vehicle after that. I was thrilled when we finally sold it a few years later.

If you already own the vehicle and then find out after that it has these belts - that's one thing. I don't expect people to get rid of a vehicle that they already own because of something that is only a potential problem. However, knowing what I know now, I personally would never consider purchasing another vehicle that had Gen 3 belts.

Just my :twocents:

Kecia

I'm going to agree with Kecia here. I haven't replaced my car with Gen 3 belts after I learned of problems, but unless I were in an unusual situation where the only car I could afford that would come anywhere close to meeting my needs had Gen 3 belts I wouldn't buy another one.

 

[TN Mary]

Here are a couple of threads discussing this:

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=23241&highlight=chrysler+belts

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=24482&highlight=chrysler+belts

To recap: just my personal experience... we've had a car seat (Britax Advantage) come unbuckled from our vehicle with gen 3 belts. Not sure what caused it, but it happened enough to be of concern.

I was quite disturbed when I first found out that we had gen 3 belts. I was comforted to know that some techs here drive their gen 3 vehicles without hesitation... but it still made me uneasy, especially after knowing one of car seats was coming unbuckled at random times.

We had planned on keeping our old van for another year or two, but based on the circumstances, we traded it in for another vehicle that had the safety features we wanted, and seatbelts that were not gen 3.

That was the best solution for 'us'.
I understand that this isn't a knee-jerk reaction everyone else should have, since everyone's circumstances differ... but looking back, I have no regrets.

As far as considering a used vehicle with gen 3 belts, I personally wouldn't. With as many used vehicles on the market (at least here), I would consider something else. If there is absolutely nothing else out there that fits your criteria and budget, then I would simply wait for the right vehicle to come along - that doesn't have gen 3 belts.

Again, my opinion... Good luck!

 

[Kalinky]

Here are a couple of threads discussing this:
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=23241&highlight=chrysler+belts
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=24482&highlight=chrysler+belts

Ahhh, the threads proving my previous paranoia!

 

[Kalinky]

IF you DO have another option that DOES meet your family's need EQUALLY as well as this vehicle does. (As in, all other factors are equal), then YES, I would consider Gen3 seatbelts a dealbreaker.

HOWEVER, if you do NOT have another option that meets your families needs (whatever they may be) as well as THIS vehicle, then I would NOT consider it a dealbreaker.

I agree with this. I would not buy a vehicle that had Gen3 seatbelts if I could find something comparable for the same price without Gen3 belts.

I'll personally never buy a Chrysler product again after owning a Jeep Grand Cherokee that was a total lemon. DH bought his Wrangler before I even met him and he's not getting rid of it. We have to use it to transport DD on occasion and do so as safe as we know how. I'm OK with it.

 

[henrietta]

Well, we bought the T & C.

And here's why, for anyone who's interested:

I currently have a '95 Mercury Villager, in decent condition, but beginning to fall apart. It has one sliding door and no top ta's behind the second row. The second row is a bench (so driver outboard and center). I have to use the third row seatbelts in order to top tether any ff'ing carseats in the second row, crawl across the ta's and kids to get other kids in/out, and it's painful for me (and sometimes the kids, too, when I bump their heads! LOL) In addition, the center position of the second row bench, while useable for carseats and not recommended against, really sucks for carseats! The seatbelt is never tight enough, no matter what carseat or who installs it. It *always* loosens, b/c it is pulled across to much blank space (and yes, it's plugged into the extra part at the bottom on the 2 seater bench). And it doesn't really matter if you use a locking clip or not on it--it just doesn't work well. It just doesn't work there. And to beat it all, I'd really like to get pregnant again and have another baby in the near future. I will be high risk and will not be performing any exciting maneuvers to get carseats or kids in/out while pregnant and once a new baby is here, I probably won't be screwing around w/it either (ds 1 was born 11 wks premature by C-sec due to a placental abruption).

So, I'd really like to have something w/2 sliding doors and places for more "normal" useable top ta's.

In favor of the T & C, is that my Dad offered to purchase it for us and repair and sell our Villager (we are broke, dh is in school, and I'm currently SAHM/part time worker), we know the original and only owners personally, 2 sliding doors, 2 captains chairs in the second row, ability to have 4 ta's installed, and it's 2 years newer and needs NO work (and won't need any for quite a while, unless I wreck it).

The seatbelts are definitely Gen 3, but the Captain's chairs ones are located down low, where it's unlikely that anything, but esp a carseat, would come in contact with it, even if it rocked. They are right next to the seat itself and don't really stick up at all, and they are also on a stiff post. Since no carseats will ever be exactly side by side, I'm less concerned about them coming unlatched. B/c of the dual sliding doors and ta's, I will rarely be using the third row bench for carseats, and most of that driving would be at low speeds for just a few miles and no interstate. In addition, I was surprised, but I poked and prodded ALL of them, and I couldn't make them release. I had to push hard and down all the way to get them to release. The previous owners know us well enough to be honest, and they never had a problem w/them coming unlatched in this van. I know that doesn't mean anything, but they certainly don't seem like w/normal use they'll be popping open. (What's funny is that our seatbelts on my Villager are much easier to get open and have been bumped open before by me while installing carseats side by side, b/c the buckle stalks are so long that I twist them 2-3 times even when installing our Britax and the buckle still comes too close to the buckle path.)

Dad paid only $2700 for a "as new as it gets" for a used '97 vehicle w/practically new everything. I looked to see if I could find anything comparable for the same amount of $$$, and it was going to be tough...plus, we would have to buy from someone we don't know, and I HATE that.

At any rate, that was my thought process. I think we'll like it, and hopefully, I'll only have it for 2-3 years at the most. As soon as dh's car is paid off, credit cards are down, we have more income, etc....I'll be able to buy something myself in the $5000 price range that will have more safety features than either the Villager or the T&C and no Gen 3 belts.

Any other thoughts are appreciated. I plan to check further about replacing the belts. I know that my Dad would put in other belts or would have them replaced if I asked him to.

Thanks so much everyone. I know it's not *ideal* but neither is a car that is falling apart. (-: And I love that Villager!!! If it had 2 sliding doors, I could probably deal with it awhile longer...but that's making it really hard and it's falling apart.

henrietta

 

[skaterbabs]

Honestly I think this vehicle meets your budget and your needs right now, and I cannot think of another van off the top of my head that would have the seating positions you need in that same price range.

 

[henrietta]

"Honestly I think this vehicle meets your budget and your needs right now, and I cannot think of another van off the top of my head that would have the seating positions you need in that same price range."

That's what we thought, too, so we jumped on it. Dad and I figured that if I drove it for a few days/weeks and hated it, we can just resell it. It doesn't really matter to him; he's just trying to help out. In fact, if I didn't like it, he'd probably drive it himself, as he's not in love w/his Mercury Mountaineer.

(-:

Thanks!

henrietta

 

[jen_nah]

What year models where the Gen 3 belts in Dodge/Chrysler vehicles?

 

[henrietta]

1991? (I think) thru 2003. Some early 2000's vehicles kept Gen 3 in the back, but put Gen 4 in the front. And the Dodge Durango and Dakota?? got Gen 4's before 2003. I think I'm remembering that correctly, so you'll have to double check, but that's a starting point!

henrietta

 

[jen_nah]

1991? (I think) thru 2003. Some early 2000's vehicles kept Gen 3 in the back, but put Gen 4 in the front. And the Dodge Durango and Dakota?? got Gen 4's before 2003. I think I'm remembering that correctly, so you'll have to double check, but that's a starting point!

henrietta

Well if that is the case my mom has Gen 3 belts in her '01 PT Crusier that both my girls ride in regularly. My oldest is in a PW & my youngest is in a MA (still using LATCH currently). My only issues is my oldest is in a booster when I really would love for her to still be in a 5pt harness. But, My mom really needs to be able to remove a seat at times to have more cargo area or another passenger. At least with a booster she can't screw it up reinstalling it. She doesn't move the Marathon ever.

 

[henrietta]

"Well if that is the case my mom has Gen 3 belts in her '01 PT Crusier that both my girls ride in regularly."

Jennah,

If you look at www.unsafebelts.com you can see a picture of the Gen 3 belts. It's actually pretty simple. If the red release button sticks up above the shell, it's a Gen 3. I don't remember reading about the PT Cruiser, so maybe they had Gen 4's right from the start (or maybe even Gen 2's).

hths

henrietta