Car accident while seat was empty

[catbulo]

Hi!

Our car was rear-ended yesterday and had to be towed from the scene. I called Britax about our Britax Frontier, which was installed but empty at the time of the crash. I honestly forgot to mention to them that it was empty; it just didn't occur to me. They said that they follow the NHSTA guidelines, in that if the car had to be towed, the seat needed to be replaced.

The insurance adjuster said the seat did not need to be replaced since it was empty. I called Britax back and got a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT answer than the first person I talked to; this yahoo said that all of the "criteria" of damage had to be met (not just one) before the car seat needed to be replaced, and refused to comment on whether it mattered if the seat was occupied. See criteria here: http://www.britaxusa.com/support/faq/after-a-crash

If you look at the link, you'll see that the "all critieria met" applies to it being SAFE to reuse- the criteria are phrased positively, as in "The vehicle WAS ABLE to be driven away." In other words, if one of those criteria is NOT met, then it is NOT safe to reuse.

Does it matter regarding replacement if the seat was empty or not? The car seat does not appear to be visually damaged, but the car was rear ended really hard (30 to 40 mph).

 

[lorismurph]

You are correct, the seat needs to be replaced. I would show the insurance adjuster the NHTSA site and make sure they see that "if the car was able to be driven from the scene" NO, that seat should not be used again.

If they still give you a hard time, ask them for a notarized letter stating that they will take full responsibility if your child is hurt in another accident after using a seat that was crashed.

 

[catbulo]

Ha!

Called Britax a third time and they finally confirmed that it DOES NOT matter whether the car seat was occupied or not. If it qualifies according to NHSTA guidelines as a major crash, it must be replaced.

Now I have to go argue with Progressive. Any more suggestions?

This accident wasn't even our fault! Arrrrgh!

 

[Brianna]

Have you seen this thread?

 

[luckyclov]

If it's not in the manual, get it in writing from Britax, and along with a copy of NHTSA's criteria, fax it over to Progressive. They don't have a choice, the seat needs to be replaced. It can not be used again. If the seat were to crash again and fail, guess who's responsible?

 

[Carrie_R]

I had really great luck with Progressive in my crash -- I'm sorry you're having such a rotten time!

As you've already figured out, yes, the Frontier definitely needs replaced. The only suggestion I can give you is going through the other insurance company -- ie, if Progressive is the insurance of the guy who hit you, call YOUR insurance, and invoke them to work for you. Also, I would make a copy of the page of the manual that lists the NHTSA criteria, highlight the relevant portions, and make sure it got into the hands of the adjuster. (The manual can be found online if you don't have yours handy.)

Also, what state are you in? Some states (California?) have policies regarding carseat replacement that might help you.

 

[LISmama810]

If it's not in the manual, get it in writing from Britax, and along with a copy of NHTSA's criteria, fax it over to Progressive. They don't have a choice, the seat needs to be replaced. It can not be used again. If the seat were to crash again and fail, guess who's responsible?

The seat needs to be replaced, but depending on coverage, the insurance company might not be responsible for covering it. I'd certainly still keep fighting it--especially if the other party is at-fault.

Also, what state are you in? Some states (California?) have policies regarding carseat replacement that might help you.

California only requires replacement if the seat was occupied. Illinois also has a replacement clause, but I don't know if being occupied plays a role. I'm not aware of any other states that have similar regulations.

 

[luckyclov]

I wanted to double check it was Progressive before I said anything, but I had a friend who was in a very, very minor "crash" last year. As in, a car basically rolled into her rear at a yield sign, at about 5 MPH. She had a Graco and 2 Britaxes in her vehicle, unoccupied, at the time. Not only did Progressive replace the Graco (which requires replacement after any crash), but also the 2 Britaxes (which defers to NHTSA's minor crash criteria) without any sort of hassle.

So, I think it widely depends on *who* you're dealing with within Progressive.

Keep fighting.

 

[catbulo]

The other person was indeed at fault. I called Progressive (my insurance) and they refused it. I got a little heated and they finally offered to call the other driver's insurance to see if they would cover it. If they deny it, too, I'm going to start bending some ears...

Florida is a no fault state, also- which seems to complicate everything.

 

[wyomommyx3]

Their insurance needs to cover it not yours. I was rear ended and dealt with progressive and they covered everything... including medical bills and thousands of dollars worth of TV news equipment that was in the trunk from work.

 

[mkmama]

Illinois also has a replacement clause, but I don't know if being occupied plays a role. I'm not aware of any other states that have similar regulations.

Not trying to hijack, but I always forget to ask about this until I see it...someone have the link where I can find the replacement clause?

OP, I'd definitely keep fighting...they need to replace that seat!

 

[Jeanum]

The Illinois insurance replacement requirement is in the Illinois Insurance Code viewable online at http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs5.asp?ActID=1249&ChapterID=22 It's like California's requirement in that it pertains to occupied carseats during a crash rather than unoccupied.

Here's the relevant excerpt:

(215 ILCS 5/143.32)
Sec. 143.32. Replacement of child restraint systems. A policy of automobile insurance, as defined in Section 143.13, that is amended, delivered, issued, or renewed after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 91st General Assembly must include coverage for replacement of a child restraint system that was in use by a child during an accident to which coverage is applicable. As used in this Section, "child restraint system" has the meaning given that term in the Child Passenger Restraint Act.
(Source: P.A. 91‑749, eff. 6‑2‑00.)

 

[catbulo]

UPDATE

After a slightly heated (on my part, that is) conversation with my Progressive claims adjuster, she agreed to talk to her manager. They decided to go ahead and pay for a replacement. I have to buy it and then bring the receipt to their office (30 miles away), at which point they'll cut me a check. Oh, and I have to give them the old one. I guess they're afraid I'll sell it or something.

It really shouldn't have taken so much argument and trouble. Seriously, why would they want a child covered by THEIR OWN COMPANY at greater risk for bodily harm? I mean, I know they're a corporation and don't care about the human factor, but at least you'd think they'd care about how much money they stood to lose if that questionable car seat was in another accident...

Somebody needs to pass a law in Florida, too. I'm ready to write to my state legislators.

 

[Mama2theD]

Glad it got covered but sorry you had such a hard time! Im in Virginia and progressive here works w the health Dept injury prevention division and We do TONS of checks w them! You should tell them to take some pointers from the Virginia offices where they take CPS seriously!

 

[catbulo]

One final interesting note regarding the Britax car seat in the accident. After a thorough re-reading of the manual, I saw that the internal part of the Versa-Tether is an indicator of whether a seat should be replaced.

I removed the cover to expose the indicator, and sure enough, it indicated that the seat needed to be replaced. So at least I feel vindicated in my instinct that the forces of the crash were enough to make it unsafe!

Check out your Britax manual regarding the Versa-Tether if you'd like to learn more about it.