Keep my SUV or buy a new Sienna?

Aaron'smommy · Dec 12, 2006

I never knew about LATCH until I watched that Kyle video... and my 2001 Ford Expedition doesn't have it. I am considering buying either a 2006 Expedition or a 2006 Sienna 8passenger (to put Aaron in the middle 2nd row seat) Should I keep my 2001 truck with no LATCH? Should I get another huge SUV (keep in mind: I want very badly not to contribute to the gas/environmental issues that a big SUV causes, however i have smaller vehicle phobias, almost died hitting a deer that jumped over a tall Jersey Barrier and need to see or I get VERY anxious) Should I get the Sienna? It has 0% financing right now...

We were going to buy a new Britax Regent and so we can RF him and LATCH- does anyone think buying a new vehicle just because it doesn't have LATCH is crazy? I don't know anything about this, am just freaked out that I'm so ignorant to something new/safe etc such as this system.

Am I spazzing from watching that video and going overboard? Or is it a good idea to find something a bit more safe?

Thanks in advance!

Alicia-N-2SafeBugs · Dec 12, 2006

Your reaction isn't at all unusual, but you don't need to worry.

It does not matter if you install a carseat using LATCH or a seatbelt. Neither one if safer than the other. LATCH was just created for ease of use, not to be safer. Your current vehicle is just fine and use of the seatbelt to secure your carseat is just fine. Seatbelt failure is rare. It's an awful tragedy for Kyle's family. The best message to take away from their video is to use a 5-point-harness as long as possible.

The Regent doesn't rear-face, it's a forward-facing only seat. If you would like to rear-face your child, you should look into a different seat. What age, weight, height is your child?

scatterbunny · Dec 12, 2006

I totally agree with Alicia. While I understand your feelings, you don't need to rush out and buy a vehicle with LATCH to feel that your child is safe in the car. Seatbelt failure is, indeed, rare.

Maybe this will make you feel better?
http://www.carseat.org/Resources/650_YouTube.pdf

What is the make and model of your current vehicle (I know it's a 2001)?
How old is your child?
What seat is s/he in currently?

lovinwaves · Dec 12, 2006

I will reply in response to your car choices...

My friend has an Expedition, probably a 2003 or 2004. She immediately fell in love with my Honda Odyssey. She thought it was very stylish, and "cool" looking. She could not believe the "ride", and how luxurious it was inside. I am telling you this because she would never want to part with her Expedition, in fact they were thinking of getting a new one. Well, one day she opened and shut my driver's door. She was totally shocked at the difference in the way it shut compared to her SUV. She said my car just seemed "more solid" to her. Foreign car engineering can be quite different than American engineering. I don't know if you have had a chance to drive a new Sienna, but you will find it is quite different then your Expedition.

She(my friend) is now going to be purchasing a new Sienna. If safety is important to you the Sienna or Odyssey are very high on the list. Van's in general tend to be better off regarding roll over incidences. The Sienna also has an all wheel drive option (very expensive though). Also competing right up there are the Hyundai Entourage and Kia Sedona (basically same van).

Ok, just let me know if you want any more info, since a "Van" purchase is obviously not out of the question for you. I have a mind full of useless auto info, unless I can help someone out then I guess it wouldn't be useless, LOL. Good luck with your decision...

Aaron'smommy · Dec 13, 2006

Gosh, thanks everyone! I thought, for some reason, that you used LATCH AND the seatbelt on your car seat for double protection?

I also thought the regent could face backwards... duh. Are there any seats that can face backwards and then forward when he's old enough? Right now I have a Evenflo Triumph. My son is 8mo old.

I now have a Ford Expedition 2001. I LOVE it.... It makes me feel really, really safe because of that deer incident and the fact that I can see. I Don't like that it is so much of a gas hog and terrible for the environment, but I weighed all of that very heavily when we bought it, because I am so afraid to drive on highways now from that accident with the deer I mentioned that I had.

So what's the point of LATCH if it isn't better and they make it manditory on vehicles now? I'm confused. You'd think they wouldn't make it manditory if it's just ease of use? Sorry to doubt anyone and sorry to be such a rookie! Thanks for your time

Wendy

Aaron'smommy · Dec 13, 2006

I thought of more questions but can't edit my post, sorry to write two.

Question: Why doesn't the IIHS rate huge big trucks like the Expedition?

Doesn't it stand to reason that an Expedition, in a crash, is going to "win?" I hate to sound selfish, but I'm getting a bit selfish now that I have a son to care for. I just read that attachment that Scatterbunny sent and it was very interesting- I'm just so confused! Keep my huge "probably going to win in an accident" truck or buy a van with stability control and LATCH and side/roof curtain airbags like the Sienna! Ahhhh!!! Thanks for listening!

skaterbabs · Dec 13, 2006

Another thing to consider is that Hyundai defers to the child restraint manufacturer for tether and LATCH limits, rather than having a specific limit of their own. This is why if I were going out today to buy a van I'd get the new Hyundai minivan. It's scoring VERY well with both the IIHS and government crash tests, and having owned a Hyundai before, I'm pleased with the quality. Plus, they offer a great warrenty.

becca011906 · Dec 13, 2006

the reason latch is mandetory on cars is i think that it was found that parents typically have less mistakes installing car seats with the lach vs the seat belt, but either is just as safe as the other if the seat in in correctly and used correctly every single time...

ALL convertible seats go ffing and rfing, britax has decalthons, marthons, bolvd, that rf to 33lbs and ffing to 65lbs, then radian by sunshine kids is the same...
Cosco seats rfing up to 35lbs but only ffing to 40lbs
evenflo i think rfing to 30bls and ffing to 40lbs

HTH

Jeanum · Dec 13, 2006

I wouldn't buy a new vehicle just to get one with LATCH. LATCH is supposed to make carseat installations easier or more standardized in theory, but in reality it's not necessarily any easier than using a seatbelt to properly install seats.

I've owned several LATCH equipped cars over the past 5 years, and currently have most of my 2 DDs seats installed with seatbelts instead of the lower LATCH anchors in my Sienna and DH's Saturn L100. This is mainly because I could get more rock solid Regent installations with the seatbelt, and also because fitting two sits side by side in DH's car was possible using the seatbelt, but not possible using LATCH due to the positioning of the lower LATCH anchors. My MIL also changes vehicles pretty frequently. Even though she's driven a LATCH equipped model SUV of some sort for the past 5 years, I more often than not end up using the seatbelt instead of LATCH to install DD's carseat when she rides with grandma. MIL's '04 Envoy was probably the least LATCH friendly of her vehicle choices, with LATCH anchors so buried between the seatback and seat cushion I couldn't reach them to use them, lol.

That being said, if you were looking to replace your current vehicle at some future point, I would strongly recommend a model with side curtain airbags and stability control because these safety features can be of significant benefit.

A good site for safety comparisons of various vehicles is www.informedforlife.org which assigns a numerical score to each model based on government and IIHS crash test scores and fatality rates. Using this scoring method, the lower the numerical score, the safer the model is considered. It's a useful site for vehicle comparison shopping in terms of safety.

steph · Dec 13, 2006

Aaron'smommy said:
I also thought the regent could face backwards... duh. Are there any seats that can face backwards and then forward when he's old enough? Right now I have a Evenflo Triumph. My son is 8mo old.

Wendy-

Do you have your son forward facing right now? The Triumph can rear face to 35 pounds and forward face to 40. Forgive me if someone already pointed this out or if you knew already, it is just by the wording in your post it made me think you have him forward facing.

Remember infants HAVE to stay rear facing til 1 and 20 lbs (not 1 or 20lbs) and that is the bare minimum requirements - They really need to be rearfacing to the limits of the seat (which in you case is 35 pounds).

HTH

Aaron'smommy · Dec 13, 2006

Thanks again! NO, he's rear-facing. Sorry if I was misleading on that!

So the LATCH system doesn't get used WITH a seatbelt, too? You use one or the other? Thanks to all for fielding all of my questions!

Also, does anyone know why IIHS doesn't rate big trucks? Thanks!

Aaron'smommy · Dec 13, 2006

Jeanum said:
A good site for safety comparisons of various vehicles is www.informedforlife.org which assigns a numerical score to each model based on government and IIHS crash test scores and fatality rates. Using this scoring method, the lower the numerical score, the safer the model is considered. It's a useful site for vehicle comparison shopping in terms of safety.

Thanks for this site! I just looked at it for a long time, it's awesome! Is this site mostly for safety of the DRIVER, though? I mean, heck, I'd like to be safe, don't get me wrong!

I just want to make sure Aaron is safe- I don't get the feeling that this site does Children safety in the rating scores... Am I making sense? Perhaps I have that wrong?

SafeDad · Dec 13, 2006

Children in back seats are generally safer than the driver or front passenger because they are farther from a frontal crash and the same distance from a side impact. Your kids are also a lot better protected in their 5-point harnesses than you are in a 3-point seatbelt. Properly restrained in a back seat, kids can survive some crashes that adults in front may not. In any case, the side impact tests do evaluate second row passengers, too.

SafeDad · Dec 13, 2006

Weight is a factor in head-on frontal crashes to a point, but not so much in side impacts. Those InformedForLife ratings do consider the advantage of weight. A big, stiff monster truck may indeed win over a lower car in a frontal crash. On the other hand, the stiff frame can transfer more energy to occupants in a crash with a fixed object like a wall or pole or another stiff frame truck. Trucks generally don't fare as well in these single vehicle crashes. The stiff frames also can result in inferior handling and higher rollover risk. Those factors can more than offset any weight advantage. Also:

http://www.suvsafety.info

If you want an SUV, don't want a gaz guzzler but want it to be very safe, how about a Toyota Highlander Hybrid? It's smaller than a minivan but it does have a third row that can be used for kids or folded for cargo.

scatterbunny · Dec 13, 2006

Evenflo seats do NOT rear-face to 35 pounds, only Cosco/Safety 1st/Eddie Bauer convertible rear-face to that weight limit.

Evenflo and Graco are both 30 pounds.

Sunshine Kids, Britax and Fisher Price are 33 pounds.

To answer the OP's question about LATCH--it isn't supposed to be safer, just easier for parents to figure out than a seatbelt install. It's supposed to offer another alternative to install the seat and hopefully to cut down on the misused seats out there.

The Triumph is nice because it has EPS foam and is a very cushy seat, but it has a very short seat shell and a low rear-facing weight limit, which is bad, and enough to make me NOT recommend this seat. Lots of babies get too tall to rear-face (head even with top of seat shell) long before 30 pounds, and rear-facing to the maximum of the convertible seat is the safest way to go. The American Academy of Pediatrics has recommended since 2001 to keep babies rear-facing to the limits of the convertible carseat, not to turn them at 1 year old (and of course at least 20 pounds).

How tall is your baby? How much does he weigh?

I'd keep your SUV unless you really want the other safety features of a new vehicle. LATCH alone is not worth buying a new vehicle for.

If I were you I'd just focus on getting baby a new seat that he can stay rear-facing in for lots more time! Preferably one with a higher harnessed weight limit than 40 pounds.

Jeanum · Dec 13, 2006

Aaron'smommy said:
So the LATCH system doesn't get used WITH a seatbelt, too? You use one or the other? Thanks to all for fielding all of my questions!

That's essentially correct.

You cannot use the lower LATCH anchors and the seat belt simultaneously to install a carseat or infant seat base because carseats aren't designed or crash tested using both installation methods. There is one seat that I'm aware of, a belt positioning booster called the Jane Indy Plus, which is designed and approved to be used with the vehicle seatbelt and the lower LATCH anchors. Otherwise you use one installation method or the other, but not the seatbelt and the lower LATCH anchors at the same time.

The full LATCH acronym actually stands for Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren. You can use the top tether with either a seatbelt or a lower LATCH anchor installation for forward facing carseats, provided that the vehicle has a designated top tether anchor. Top tethering is highly recommended whenever possible because it can help reduce head excursion (the amount a child's head moves forward in a crash), and it's actually mandatory to top tether forward facing harnessed seats in Canada. You can also use the top tether strap on certain rear facing convertible seats made by Britax (Roundabout/Marathon/Decathlon/Blvd.) and Sunshine Kids (the Radian) when they're installed with the seatbelt or with the lower LATCH anchors. On these convertible seats with top tethering approved by the manufacturer in rear facing mode, you can tether them to a fixed point toward the front of the vehicle, like a front seat leg or railing. The Evenflo Triumph can only be top tethered forward facing, though.

Aaron'smommy · Dec 13, 2006

Jeanum said:
That's essentially correct. You cannot use the lower LATCH anchors and the seat belt simultaneously to install a carseat or infant seat base because carseats aren't designed or crash tested using both installation methods. .

Ok, sorry I'm being SO detailed here, I'm just confused. Doesn't it stand to reason that if one works, both would be better?! Maybe that's like saying "if 2 asprin would be good, 100 would be better!" but to me, it seems like attaching everything you can would be the best?

Also- Scatterbunny, I have noticed that Aaron's head is sticking at the top of the seat already!!! He's 20lbs and I'm not sure what height he is, but his head definitely reaches the top of the seat! Is there a good Britax to move into from here? Or another seat you (or anyone) recommends instead? I don't mind the cost (not that I'm rich, but hey, peace of mind is worth it to me)

TIA!

SafeDad · Dec 13, 2006

Aaron'smommy said:
Ok, sorry I'm being SO detailed here, I'm just confused. Doesn't it stand to reason that if one works, both would be better?! Maybe that's like saying "if 2 asprin would be good, 100 would be better!" but to me, it seems like attaching everything you can would be the best?

TIA!

We can't say for sure unless it is permitted by the car seat manufacturer. You'd think it wouldn't hurt, but if it hasn't been tested, there could be some issue. There's a few threads on this in the archives, too.

steph · Dec 13, 2006

Evenflo and Graco are both 30 pounds

Oops sorry!!! I didn't know the exact weight limits of the Triumph so I pulled this up and it said rear facing to 35 pounds! Are they wrong?

http://www.babyage.com/products/3591331_evenflo_evenflo_triumph_convertible_car_seat.htm

scroll down to the features and it says rf to 35.

skaterbabs · Dec 13, 2006

I called them and the rep I spoke with said she is sending it to their tech department to fixi it ASAP.

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