head slump in kids

NannyMom · Jun 28, 2009

I keep seeing head slump in carseats mentioned as a negative thing- something to avoid. I know we don't want a baby's head falling forward. But what about a FF child? I thought head slump for kids was just fine. Safety wise. Am I wrong? J's head slumps when he sleeps in his GN. When it was in booster mode, we'd just lock the seatbelt. But now he's back in the harness. Is it just that we think it looks uncomfortable so try to avoid it? Or is it really unsafe?

Unregistered1 · Jun 28, 2009

I have always been under the impression that it is not a safety issue, but that there is a parental cringe factor as far as it looking uncomfortable and that's why we try to avoid it. A's head sometimes slumps when she sleeps in the GN (depending on how quickly I stop, believe it or not) too. It doesn't look comfy, but she's asleep so I know it's not bothering her.

Maedze · Jun 28, 2009

Head slump is ONLY a safety issue in newborns or children with medical issues that compromise their physical strength.

The concern has nothing to do with CPS....if a newborn's head slumps, they may not have the physical strength to put their heads back and they'll end up suffocating.

Forward facing head slump is fine.

NannyMom · Jun 28, 2009

Ok, so I was right. I'm glad

Thanks.

Gypsy · Jun 28, 2009

When we had a Nautilus, ds would wake up SCREAMING in it, as soon as I put him in the Frontier, he slept, and slept with no crying when he woke up.

southpawboston · Jun 28, 2009

MissKatie said:
I have always been under the impression that it is not a safety issue, but that there is a parental cringe factor as far as it looking uncomfortable and that's why we try to avoid it. A's head sometimes slumps when she sleeps in the GN (depending on how quickly I stop, believe it or not) too. It doesn't look comfy, but she's asleep so I know it's not bothering her.

i would agree that it's not a safety issue in a frontal impact, but i do think there is a safety issue in side impacts. if a seat has SIP, it is only designed to contain the head if the head is positioned properly to begin with.

secondly, when DD1 had an evenflo triumph, she CONSTANTLY slumped her head. she would fall asleep, but would never stay sleeping. going over a bump would cause her head to bob and she would wake up. once she moved to the YS with its massive SIP wings, she slept for hours on end, presumably because her head didn't slump.

joolsplus3 · Jun 28, 2009

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gSAj0xYkBY"]YouTube - CYBEX Tactical Safety for CYBEX SOLUTION S Car Seat[/ame]
Check out that video, you don't have to understand what he's saying to see that head slump is really pretty deadly in a side crash. Sideways head leaning doesn't bug me, but heads going forward is bad news :thumbsdown:

NannyMom · Jun 28, 2009

Would that crash test look the same for a harnessed seat as opposed to a booster?

Maedze · Jun 28, 2009

Excellent point as always, SPB.

bobandjess99 · Jun 28, 2009

Great point jools....i tend to forget about that and just say "its a comfort issue, not a safety issue" but of course, it could be a safety issue if the childs head came out of the restraint. In dd's case, since she is harnessed, there is only so far her head can fall forward and she can't really become "out of place", but in a booster, I can see how the child might literally fall out of place.
Hhmm..i wonder how much side curtain air bags might mitigate some of the danger?

joolsplus3 · Jun 28, 2009

NannyMom said:
Would that crash test look the same for a harnessed seat as opposed to a booster?

Might not be that bad, but I've seen lots of harnessed seats where the head hits the door in a side crash (oeamtc used to play lots of videos, they are still there in their archives, but I can't seem to open them lately...try googling it), even when the dummy is sitting properly...

Defrost · Jun 28, 2009

Yeah, but I'm still not all that convinced that head slump in a side impact is going to make that much difference (or a difference we can control, rather.) Side-impact crash tests are dead-on - but what about real-life crashes that are at an angle? Does even a slight angle make a difference?

The side-impact crash I was in, we were hit at an angle, and we all got thrown both forward and to the side. Had there been such a thing as SIP seats at that time, all the kids' heads would have been thrown out of them anyway. And if you get hit at an angle that throws you back and to the side, extra SIP isn't doing you any good anyway, because the head's going to end up far enough back to be contained by even shallow sides on a carseat or booster.

I just kind of see it in terms of "but his legs are too long to rear-face! They'll get broken in a crash!" The legs go flying in a crash, yk? So does the head, right? It's not going to stay any better positioned than the legs regardless of the position it starts out in.

southpawboston · Jun 28, 2009

bobandjess99 said:
Hhmm..i wonder how much side curtain air bags might mitigate some of the danger?

this is an issue i've voiced opinion about recently; watching side impact videos and videos or still shots from automotive websites of deployed side curtains, it seems to me that curtains would only be beneficial for older kids whose heads are at a height similar to an adult's head. the curtains generally don't deploy as far down as the window sill. here's a promo pic of a deployed SAC in a new ford:

on the other hand, this GMC curtain seems to extend much farther down, and may (major handwaiving here) mitigate the dangers of a child's head slumping in a carseat:

in addition, if you watch the booster video that jools posted, you can clearly see the dummy's head hitting the sill, not the glass area. so, just like seatbelts, side curtains seem to be, in general, optimized for average adult sized occupants, not small children. this is why i feel so strongly about SIP seats, lack of testing standards notwithstanding. i can't trust that the curtains in my car will be effective at protecting my small kids in a side impact.

i do agree with a previous PP that head slump in a harnessed seat is probably less dangerous than in a booster, since 1) the body is contained better in the seat, and 2) the seat is contained better in the vehicle (a properly installed harnessed seat will not slide as much as a booster held in loosely by the seatbelt).

NannyMom · Jun 29, 2009

Now to throw a twist into my question. A has haed slump when she sleeps (on long trips) in her TB in Mom's car, which also leads her to nearly falling out of the seat Mom said. A does not like the Vivo in there because it's hard to buckle

Last time, I suggested she lock her seatbelt (or Mom tell her to) if she may fall asleep. A is a perfect booster rider, so we never lock the belt. But would there be any harm in a booster rider having the seatbelt locked while sleeping?

joolsplus3 · Jun 29, 2009

Locking the belt for a nap is a fine idea. Heck, I always lock my own when I'm super tired

Maedze · Jun 29, 2009

I think any perceived, potential risk from locking the belt (and actually, I don't think there's any at all, but some disagree), would be completely dwarfed by being out of position in an impact.

I always lock my own belt when I nap.

arly1983 · Jun 29, 2009

You can't tell me that the "true" impact protection of the BV was doing her a bit of good. Actually, the only two seats this child does not have head slump in are the radian (shocker) and the Signo. For the record, the harness is as tight has it would go.

Maedze · Jun 29, 2009

Look at her

arly1983 · Jun 29, 2009

Maedze said:
Look at her

Thanks, she has completely lost that baby look now.

joolsplus3 · Jun 29, 2009

Was that the old style slump inducing BV? If so, think that's why they redesigned it?

head slump in kids

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