Europe and car rental

I'm trying to plan ahead for a trip next fall to Europe. By then DD#1 will be about 5 and DD#2 will be 2. On the flight I'd like to use the CARES harness for DD#1. For DD#2 we'll use the GoGoKidz and take the Roundabout which we'll then use for any rental cars. I'd like to avoid taking a second car seat if possible since we'll be doing some train and ferry travel.
Will we be able to get a decent (read: safe) car seat rental in most European countries?
Is there a better rental agency than another to make sure it's in safe condition?
Do I need a car seat for one or both kids on trains? What about taxis?

Itinerary is still up in the air, but it's beginning to look like we'd rent a car in Croatia, Malta and Norway, if that helps.

Trains haven't got seatbelts, so no carseats. Taxis may or may not have seatbelts, but I'd sure as heck have a carseat if at all possible. They tend to be scary drivers.

At five years old most European nations would have boosters for you to rent, if anything. I wouldn't trust a rental booster. Do they take good care of it? Did someone have a crash and not mention it, or did the rental agent know it needed to be destroyed afterward? How old is it? Has it been used properly?

If you can guarantee you'll have a top tether OR a shoulder and lap belt for your daughter a Ride Safer Travel Vest may work very well for you (if she's over 35 pounds).

If you're not certain about getting a shoulder and lap belt or a lap belt and top tether in every car I'd look into bringing DD1's carseat.

Wendy

Thanks for the response. I should also note that at 3 1/2 she's just under 30 lbs. I'm guessing she'll be 35 or so when we travel, and since she'll be shy of 5 maybe I can still get a standard carseat instead of a booster. The quality of the car seat is exactly what worries me, which is why I'm wondering if there's a company that is more trustworthy when it comes to that!

Also I don't know if we'll be taking a taxi - I'm only assuming it's likely at some point. Lugging the RA with the GGK is one thing; but the prospect of lugging a MA through Europe by hand makes me wonder if we should just leave the kids at home for the three weeks!

It really depends on where you are. For example, Germany requires a carseat or booster until kids are 12 years or 4'11", and this applies to taxis, too!

Are you talking about Fall 2010? I'd not plan in the least that far ahead and see what's available then.

Wendy

Yes, fall 2010. I'd ideally like to wait until the last possible minute to decide, but some of where we travel may be dictated by the car seat situation. So if car seat rental in, say Malta, is awful we'll just skip that and maybe go to Sicily instead. I have until the fall to start deciding, but I'd like to use frequent flier miles which means making reservations in September.

that bit about Germany is helpful. We're planning to avoid it since DH has family there but if Frankfurt is the best flight we can get then I'll adjust accordingly.

right now other countries on the list where we'd use public transport include Sweden, Denmark, & Sicily.

Why do you have to buy so far in advance? We flew to China on miles and I think Nathan bought the tickets about three or four weeks ahead of time. If your itinerary is flexible then you may rather wait.

I wouldn't trust any rental seats. Not even from Sweden, where they're very educated about carseats. They'll only have boosters for a five year old, so if you're not happy with that then you're out of luck (they don't have harnessed seats forward facing there). Most of the rest of Europe has boosters for that age as well. And you still don't know their history or if they've been treated well.

Wendy

I hope it's okay to ask a follow-up to a reply: Ulrike, if you have experience, have you found those laws actually enforced/followed in Germany? I remember reading an article where a study showed a high number of -unrestrained- kids in Germany even in their caregivers' cars so I was curious.

To the OP: I've heard the quality of rental car seats is very unpredictable, as Wendy said, and they don't even have to promise they'll have one available. If it were me and I didn't want to travel with car seats and had a flexible itinerary I'd probably get a sweet deal on eurail passes and avoid cars entirely. That's definitely doable in Europe. If you really want to drive and use rental seats, I would focus on avoided countries where lots of tourists seem to get in car accidents like Italy (just my impression from seeing all the totaled rental cars).

Regardless of country, it's extremelöy unlikely someone will get daught for using car seats incorrectly. That's just the way it is.

I always bring our Swedish rf seats on trips but have checked out rentals for others who have had no other choice. Avis and EHrtz are the best IMHO. Avis in Sweden will give you a free 55 lbs rear facing car seat for nyou rental, usually a Britax Hi-Way. Don't expect that everywhere but quality among thosese two companies is better than others.

Call ahead with plenty of time and speak to manager at the place and aks what tehy can GUARANTEE. It's one thing what car seats they have and another what you will get. PErhaps some seats are gone and you get stuck with something which doesn't fit.

Booster cushions are an easier product, I would feel ok using that if I really had to.

Travel by rail in Europe is great but I would prefer a cr. It's much more flexible.

I've spent lots of time in GErmany and would say there are few unrestrained kid in cars. Like US and many other countries, kids are ff very early. Usually 9-12 months. You will also see 2 year olds with nothing more than a seat belt or in a booster. Still restrained but very unsafe.....

There are not many Germans who have even heard of rf past 9-12 months. Interest is picking up quite a bit but educating parents is a long term process.

Norway is good with car seats, you will be able to rent Swedish rf seats there. Croatia are decent and Malta is terrible. Too close to Italy) Where holding a 3 month old in your lap at 80 mph is just fine

Let me know if you need more detailed info about Europe.

Croatia, Malta
No way you will get a "decent (read: safe) car seat" there in my opinion.
Even german rental-seats are horrible rubbish mostly.

have you found those laws actually enforced in Germany?

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Since over 15 years now i bet, with drastic fees. I life in Germany and unrestraint kids are really unusual. Ok, a not one year old FF or a barely 3 year old in a Booster, but nearly never unrestrained!
Law ist rf until 9kg(20lbs), booster from 15kg (33lbs) up.
Joy

Hi - I changed my question to make it more clear that I didn't just mean enforced by law enforcement, but was wondering about enforcement by people living there, how serious people are about car seat use etc. Thanks for the info on that! I found the study I remembered reading. It was the ADAC Children's Security Check for 2008. They took a look at kids leaving kindergartens and elementary schools to see how small children were restrained. According to them, looking at all school-aged children under 6 years old less than 30% were correctly restrained (12% completely unrestrained, 14% only with an adult seatbelt etc.). So I was surprised to hear they have such stringent laws (car seats in taxis, etc.).

Ooh, I loooove traveling by train especially with kids. It's true it's not quite as flexible as a car, but that can be made up for by how much more predictable it usually is. Being able to walk around, go to the bathroom, have someone serve you dinner all while you're still on your way to your destination... Plus you actually get to look at the scenery instead of just the map. But to each their own.

InternationalMama said:

According to them, looking at all school-aged children under 6 years old less than 30% were correctly restrained (12% completely unrestrained, 14% only with an adult seatbelt etc.).

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If 12% where unrestrained, that means 88% where restrained!

But in Germany, and especially big cities where ADAC make this check, elementary schools and kindergarten are normally near home, so this are mainly short distance trips and many parents are to lazy to buckle probably.

Only 70% not correctly restrained means they could be secured better. I think about 70% where correct "by law", but I didn´t have the article here.
Joy

I guess it makes sense if people are thinking "I'm so close to home anyway..." But so many accidents happen really close to home!

I thought 12% completely without any restraint even a seatbelt was really surprising, but now I'm curious about other countries and whether similar studies would have similar findings...

Sorry, OP, for going OT!

No worries! This has been so helpful - thanks for all the information esp in regards to car rental companies in Sweden & Norway, and the advice about Malta. Sounds like we're best off focusing on Scandinavia and taking the train elsewhere. That will make for a shorter trip too which will make DH happy.

As for why reserving so early, I've struggled for years to use my FF miles and have learned the hard way that reserving tickets when they're released (330 days in advance) is the best way to do it, especially when I want to try and get several tickets.

Remember that if you were comfortable with using rental car seats in Scandinavia you could probably drive to quite a few other countries with the car using ferries and trains. (You can take a car on the Eurostar. ) I would definitely look into Eurail passes though.

I agree that for certain busy routes it is best to buy frequent flyer tickets as far in advance as you can and you've really got nothing to lose since usually you can cancel with no penalty.