Question need advice on RF HTS seat (sorry, long!)

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panzona

Guest
Hello everybody,
I am new here and looking for help/advice.

I live in Germany and have an almost 2 years-old son.
I need to change his car seat and of course (would I be here otherwise? ;-) ) want a RF one.

After many many researches (also browsing this board) I realized that there’s only one possible choice for me here in Germany, which is the BeSafe Combi X1, because all the other RF seats sold here (Britax and Recaro) are surely 0-18kg seats, but in the manual they state you should turn the child FF with 13 kg…

NO shop here would have the HTS in stock – they say it’s too expensive, Germans don’t want RF, and so on and so forth… but even more, I say, if it’s expensive I want to “touch” it and see it before I buy it! Anyway.
I contacted the (only!) HTS BeSafe dealer who was kind enough to give me an appointment to show me the seat and try it on my car (luckily she was staff training in a shop “only” 45 km away from where I live, otherwise their office would have been 500 km away…)

Here is my question (finally, you’d say!)
The seat looks really nice and comfy (though a little elaborate – not complicated – to install), but I have a problem with its angle after installed: the 3rd “tilted position” gives my a son a very comfortable sitting position, but it’s supposed to be the sleeping position! So no more ‘back leaning’ possible… The other 2 tilts are unusable, because the seat ‘leans’ too much towards the car’s rear seat’s back. This is due to the shape of the car’s rear seat, which have the sitting part (is it called the cushion?) leaning (to the passengers’ lap). I drive an “old” Opel Zafira (year 2001) but I’ve found the same problem with all the cars I’ve had, my husband’s, my parent’s and so on (even with my current seat): my husband (he’s in the car industry) says that rear seats HAVE to be like this for comfort reasons and for safety reasons (what with the passenger not being too easily “projected” out of the seat). Some cars might have a smaller ‘angle’, but no seat can be a 90° L shaped seat (am I somewhat clear???)

I wonder: anyone with the same problem? How could you solve it?
Is it safe if I place something under the child’s seat to make the seat’s cushion horizontal (I was thinking of one of those firm “triangle” pillows that are used to straighten the back while sitting on chairs)? Maybe fixing it to the car’s seat with lots of velcro?
I am torn… (and ask myself, too: if rear seats are more or less all like this, why children’s seats manifacturers don’t build tha base accordingly? so not to have this tilting problem?)

I’ve attached a (terrible!) drawing because I didn’t know if my English (and the issue itself) was clear enough… The angles in the drawing are of course exaggerated, I just wanted to make clear the issue.

I have also started to consider to have a seat shipped from Sweden, so I’d have a RF till 25 kg (55 lb or so), but this concerns me even more: what if it “tilts” even more? I surely can’t return it if I have it shipped…

Please, any advice will be much appreciated.
TIA!

carseat.jpg
 
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InternationalMama

New member
I'm new here too so I can't help you with your technical question, but as far as car seats to choose from in Germany there is also the Wavo seat found here:

http://www.mywavo.com/kindersitz/content/view/82/47/

They say it's rear-facing to 18kg and it seems to have good ratings from several different organizations.

I was also under the impression the Polaric is rear-facing to 18kg, but I'm not totally sure. Like I said I'm new too. Hope you find a solution!
 

UlrikeDG

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
I didn't have any trouble understanding exactly what you meant.

First, I wanted you to know that you do have more options than just HTS for rear facing seats beyond 13 kg. I know about the Graco Duologic, the Brio Zento, and the Recaro Polaric.

Regarding the recline issue, with US seats, it is acceptable to use a foam pool noodle or a tightly rolled towel in the crack of the vehicle seat to improve the recline. Look at the picture gallery at the bottom of this page to see what I mean. An older toddler may like sitting more upright than a younger one, and that's ok, too. Just don't make it more reclined than 45 degrees!

You could also call HTS and ask them what they recommend. When I bought my Concord Lift at BabyOne in Mannheim, the salesman gave me some incorrect information. I called Concord and their customer service was very nice and informative. I bet HTS will be just as helpful.
 

Adventuredad

New member
There are plenty of great choices available to you. You have access to all the Swedish seats which allow rear facing to 25 kg (55 lbs). The Swedish seats are all apporved for Europe, ECE R44, and very easy to install. Britax Two-Way and Britax Multi TEch are most common among foreigners due to the high seat shell. Most kids rear face to at least 5 in a Multi Tech.

Now, about the IziKid. It's a know problem your talking about. Many complain about the angle being too upright. There is now actually no IziKid X1, it's been upgraded to X2 but the difference is very small. I would be a bit careful with stuffing things under the front of seat to change angle unless it's a utility made for the seat. IziKid is a good seat but no safer than the other high weight rf seats. It's a bit tricky to install the first few times.

It does take up more room than many other rear facing seats. Most parents here in Sweden have it installed in the front seat (AIRBAG DEACTIVATED) which gives far more leg room and is safe of a place as the rear.

IxiKid has a seat shell of 57 cm. which is the same as other Swedish 25 kg rf seats such as Britax Hi-Way and Maxi Cosi Mobi. Brio Zento has the sortest seat shell at 55 cm. Brtiax Two-Way has 60 cm and Multi Tech 62 cm (expandable to 68 cm).

As you can hear there are plenty of other rear facing seats available. Although no stores carry them in Germany it's not any more expensive to buy them from Sweden. IziKid is cheaper to buy from Germany even after the shipping is included. And all the seats are ECE R44 apprroved and has great reputation for safety.

If you need more info about the seats, please feel free to ask her, send me a PM, or an email at ad@adventuredad.com (I'm located in Sweden)
 
P

panzona

Guest
Thank you all for your answers (sorry about replying this late but sometimes the little one just won't allow me to sit in fron t of the computer - without HIM deciding what should be on the screen, that is).

I am happy that my question was clear!

@InternationalMama:
thanks for your hint, I checked the seat up and will try to have a look at it in some shop!

@UlrikeDG:
sorry, maybe I did't make myself clear, what I meant was that the HTS Combi was my only choice sold in Germany...
Recaro sells here (RF) only the so called (on German market) Junior mini, which is RF only until 13 kg. The other carseat (group o/1 or 1) sold here is the Logico-M, only FF.
I have found the Duologic you mention only in the Swedish site of Akta Graco… the reading of which, I’m afraid, is beyond my capacities, lol (but I'll find out how to check it!)
As per the Recaro Polaric, it is suitable only for the Isofix mounting system, which I'm lacking in my "old" car.
Thank you for the advice on the pool noodle and the pics of the car angle - both of great help, even for the seat I'm currently using!
HTS have been already very nice, but the only answer I've had on the matter (adding something to improve the recline) was, and I'm quoting, "yes, but just a little"...

@adventuredad:
first off, wow! what a great picture in your signature! It led me to check up your site while browsing this board (so when I stated in my first post "I'm considering having something shipped from Sweden" I had already in mind to contact you...). BTW I am rising a 3-lingual kid too... (hopefully they'll come out as separate languages, LOL)

thank you for your extended explanation (though the seat I've been shown was the Combi X1, not the iziKid).
IxiKid has a seat shell of 57 cm. which is the same as other Swedish 25 kg rf seats such as Britax Hi-Way and Maxi Cosi Mobi. Brio Zento has the sortest seat shell at 55 cm. Brtiax Two-Way has 60 cm and Multi Tech 62 cm (expandable to 68 cm).
The height of the shell isn't really an issue for me, my son is admittedly a little short (I wonder from whom did he get that :whistle:) so I don't see bigger troubles for the future (outgrowing too soon etc.). I have a problem, though, browsing the Swedish site of Britax, I confess, even with my linguistic background, I can't make out that much from the text... :eek: So please put up your website soon, to help all us poor non-Swedish readers! :D

Last but not least... I have found out that my car has a problem with "buckle crunch", being the buckles 'female' not inside the bight of the seat, but attached to a short piece of webbing... :mad: So I have to check this also, before I make any decision about the seat (and try not to freak out about this problem with the current seat I have... :mad::mad:)
Anybody knows how to overcome this plight? :confused:


Thank you all for reading this long again!
 

Adventuredad

New member
BTW I am rising a 3-lingual kid too... (hopefully they'll come out as separate languages, LOL)

I'm quadlingual but doing three languages with the kiddos. It's a bit of a mix in the beginning but at age 3 everything seems to come together. Only bad things is we can't have any secrets in the household:whistle:

thank you for your extended explanation (though the seat I've been shown was the Combi X1, not the iziKid).

The combi X1 is pretty much the same seat as IziKid X1 although it also allows forward facing in harness until 18 kg. (40 lbs). But we do rear facing at that point so it's of no use to us so no one has it in stock.

I have a problem, though, browsing the Swedish site of Britax, I confess, even with my linguistic background, I can't make out that much from the text... So please put up your website soon, to help all us poor non-Swedish readers!

The site, CarSeat.se, will be up on April 14 2009 and will have lots of advice for parents. Everything from pregnant women to older kids. It will be in English. There will also be a webshop for the Swedish seats ( in three languages to start with) with global shipping.

Anyway, sorry about the Swedish only Britax site. Reason for no English translation is a political one. They are not allowed to believe it or not.

I don't understand exactly what the problem with the seat belt is. Perhaps you could send me a photo or someone else understand? I don't know of any seatbelt not making an install possible of a Swedish seat. You have my email address or just post it here.

Please let us know if you have more questions.
 

ketchupqueen

CPST and ketchup snob
Staff member
Is the seatbelt problem you're talking about that you have too long of a buckle stalk (the thing the female end is attached to?)

Here in the U.S. we correct that by twisting it up to 3 times, making it shorter and pulling it out of the belt path. You can check with your vehicle manufacturer (sometimes it says in the manual, or call them) and/or with the car seat manufacturer to see whether that is an acceptable solution.
 
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panzona

Guest
thanks all again, as soon as I have more than one finger available for typing (the others being engaged in a fight with the small guy who's trying to type himself) I'm posting pics and a more detailed answer.

thanks again anyway for your care!
 
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panzona

Guest
Hi all, sorry again for my delay, my son got sick and I had a hard day and a sleepless night.

I am writing a post focused on the buckle crunch problem, because even searching the board I couldn't find many (if any) related posts on it (maybe in American English is called another way?)
It might help me as well as others who might be unaware of the issue, I thought...

So please, check my other post up (I'm posting in the Installation and Technical Questions): I am posting pics of the car and some links regarding the issue...
Wait for you there, thanks again a lot for your help!



@lenats31:
thank you so much for the photos, it really helps to see things "on site" (if I may say so).

Is the seatbelt problem you're talking about that you have too long of a buckle stalk (the thing the female end is attached to?)

Here in the U.S. we correct that by twisting it up to 3 times, making it shorter and pulling it out of the belt path. You can check with your vehicle manufacturer (sometimes it says in the manual, or call them) and/or with the car seat manufacturer to see whether that is an acceptable solution.

I think you've understood the problem, but I'm not sure I can solve it the way you describe - it seems still pretty long!
The car manufacturer is, in fact, "my husband" (lol), since he works for Opel and I have, as I said, an Opel Zafira (2001).
The problem is that I don't speak German (yeah, 2 years here and still not a word, blame on me) and anyway HE wants to speak personally to the tech guys. You'd think it's perfect, but believe me, it's not, because:
1) he tends to think that the cars he makes are (in their category, of course) the best - when I brought up the issue he told me: what? but the car was rated the safest of its year, :blah blah blah:... not getting that MAYBE in EIGHT years the safety standards have improved and the systems maybe changed (the way one installs a car seats, I mean)... it was like I was offending his own child :rolleyes: plus, he chose the car for me some months ago (buying used) so I had the feeling that he also thought I was accusing him of a bad choice.
2) the situation at Opel is pretty bad (you might know it through the related GM stories you might happen to have heard) so he really has NO TIME to go to the tech guy and have a satisfactory (for me!) talk with them
3) Gerrmans (no offence, I know I'm generalizing and I know it's not ALL of them - in case anybody feels touched by my words) tend to have a different approach to things (from mine, naturlich): the manifacturer says the car is safe? the car seatmanual says it can be mounted on that car? than IT IS safe. Mmmmhh....


I don't understand exactly what the problem with the seat belt is. Perhaps you could send me a photo or someone else understand? I don't know of any seatbelt not making an install possible of a Swedish seat. You have my email address or just post it here.

Please let us know if you have more questions.

I read on another post that you have pics of the seats installed. I'm going to contact you about it, the pics from lenats31 really helped me more than many words!
 

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