Adventuredad
New member
I think it's great you're thinking so much about safety but still have a dialog with your daughter about it.:thumbsup: Great advice from Jools, BW1426, and Snowbird25ca IMHO.
A hbb back booster is safer than a lbb just as Jools say but the difference isn't huge. Better SIP and usually the seat belt is threaded a little better but the difference is not huge. Important thing with lbb, and a hbb as well, is to thread to belt under the "armrests" to avoid submarining (sliding under belt in a crash). I find a huge percentage of parents who are unaware of this.
My goal is to use a HBB as long as possible, my oldest is almost 5 so I've not been in your situation yet. My son loves his HBB but who knows how he will feel at 9 years. I think safety is the most important but I also listen to my kids input. Having a child upset about car seat safety, or using a seat belt, is probably not a good idea for the future IMHO. I fmy son was tall enough at your daughters age I would let him ride without booster at school. Remember, car seat safety is mostly about statistics. And as someone mentioned, the risks are extremely low something happens on school field trips. Jools points out perfectly what's the most important thing:
Despite what everyone believes, 5 point harness isn't any safer than a HBB for a child of the appropriate age. Problem is, many parents stick their 2 or 3 year old on booster which is clearly unsafe. Harnessing a 2 year old is MUCH safer than a booster, doing so with a 5 year old (or older) is not. Here we do infant seat first 6 months, rear facing until age 4-5, then HBB (or LBB). It's not any safer to sit harnessed at that age, leaading experts in the field here say it's actually less safe so we don't harness our kids at all. EVen when there is an option to do so (Multi Tech, Two-Way, and Zento for example) It's been done for the past 30 years and the data says it's extremely safe.
If you want to get really bored, you can take a look at a long answer I provided about this issue here
While experts recommend hbb ahead of harnessing here they are also quick to point out both are certified and safe. They just believe boosters are slightly safer, not only for fatalities but also injuries (which many forget about). No one is trashing harnessing.
As I said in my other answer, we should not focus on harnessing vs. boosters. The difference is small, if any, and we should instead focus on rear facing younger kids. Rear facing a 12 month old is 500% safer, difference in booster vs. harness is likely very small.
There are no tests of harness vs. booster and there won't be any either. It's far too subjective and expensive. It's not meaningful. What the leading experts here say is that a harness hold back the body of a child and a lot of the force is absorbed by neck/back area in a child where muscles are not yet developed. Most parents watch a youtube video and think it's great that the child doesn't move much in a harness. This might be an advantage at times but is also the greatest disadvantage.
Comparing a race car driver and their harnesses is not applicable. Most drivers are 20+ years old with bones and muscles fully developed. They also often use additional safety equipment to protect their necks. Speeds are also completely different.
In a harness, the body is stopped very fast and violently while a child in a booster moves more but more of the body absorb the impact forces. There is also a technical issue which is negative for harnessing. (complicated but bear with me) Say a child is stopped in 60 ms (milliseconds) in a crash. In a harness, because of how seat is constructed, first half or so of that time seat is moving forward and child is not being restrained. Then, during the last 30 ms, all impact forces are absorbed by child's body. But absorbing same force during half of the time makes a huge difference.
I have an American friend who has worked for Britax, Graco and others and actually been heavily involved in developing and constructing car seats half his life. I wish you could hear him explain this, it makes far more sense.
There are also "fluff" factors regarding boosters that help with safety. Things such as lower price, easier install, easier to move to another car, etc. Keeping things simple is usually a good idea regarding car seat safety.
Harness or booster makes little difference regardless what people believe. Which is why it's sad to hear a parent forward face their child at 12 months thinking it's very safe and then spend two months deciding on the best 5 point harness seat since it's "so much safer".
Harnessing and boosters are both safe. Who to believe comes down to trust. I trust what the leading experts here are saying since they have been doing this far longer than anyone else and also have the best safety record of any country regardless of age. Car seat safety has been a real priority here since 1965(!) when myself and other kids started riding rear facing in cars. It would also seem kind of odd that the people who have been obsessed with car seat safety for the past 45 years would choose to use an inferior method of protecting their own children. I don't find the same focus and dedication in other countries, and perhaps most importantly, certainly no good track records.
Whatever people choose to believe regarding harnessing and boosters is fine. Using either one will keep your child safe in the car and hopefully avoid a disaster. As Jools said, just using a seat or seat belt is the most important thing:twocents:
A hbb back booster is safer than a lbb just as Jools say but the difference isn't huge. Better SIP and usually the seat belt is threaded a little better but the difference is not huge. Important thing with lbb, and a hbb as well, is to thread to belt under the "armrests" to avoid submarining (sliding under belt in a crash). I find a huge percentage of parents who are unaware of this.
My goal is to use a HBB as long as possible, my oldest is almost 5 so I've not been in your situation yet. My son loves his HBB but who knows how he will feel at 9 years. I think safety is the most important but I also listen to my kids input. Having a child upset about car seat safety, or using a seat belt, is probably not a good idea for the future IMHO. I fmy son was tall enough at your daughters age I would let him ride without booster at school. Remember, car seat safety is mostly about statistics. And as someone mentioned, the risks are extremely low something happens on school field trips. Jools points out perfectly what's the most important thing:
Despite what everyone believes, 5 point harness isn't any safer than a HBB for a child of the appropriate age. Problem is, many parents stick their 2 or 3 year old on booster which is clearly unsafe. Harnessing a 2 year old is MUCH safer than a booster, doing so with a 5 year old (or older) is not. Here we do infant seat first 6 months, rear facing until age 4-5, then HBB (or LBB). It's not any safer to sit harnessed at that age, leaading experts in the field here say it's actually less safe so we don't harness our kids at all. EVen when there is an option to do so (Multi Tech, Two-Way, and Zento for example) It's been done for the past 30 years and the data says it's extremely safe.
If you want to get really bored, you can take a look at a long answer I provided about this issue here
While experts recommend hbb ahead of harnessing here they are also quick to point out both are certified and safe. They just believe boosters are slightly safer, not only for fatalities but also injuries (which many forget about). No one is trashing harnessing.
As I said in my other answer, we should not focus on harnessing vs. boosters. The difference is small, if any, and we should instead focus on rear facing younger kids. Rear facing a 12 month old is 500% safer, difference in booster vs. harness is likely very small.
There are no tests of harness vs. booster and there won't be any either. It's far too subjective and expensive. It's not meaningful. What the leading experts here say is that a harness hold back the body of a child and a lot of the force is absorbed by neck/back area in a child where muscles are not yet developed. Most parents watch a youtube video and think it's great that the child doesn't move much in a harness. This might be an advantage at times but is also the greatest disadvantage.
Comparing a race car driver and their harnesses is not applicable. Most drivers are 20+ years old with bones and muscles fully developed. They also often use additional safety equipment to protect their necks. Speeds are also completely different.
In a harness, the body is stopped very fast and violently while a child in a booster moves more but more of the body absorb the impact forces. There is also a technical issue which is negative for harnessing. (complicated but bear with me) Say a child is stopped in 60 ms (milliseconds) in a crash. In a harness, because of how seat is constructed, first half or so of that time seat is moving forward and child is not being restrained. Then, during the last 30 ms, all impact forces are absorbed by child's body. But absorbing same force during half of the time makes a huge difference.
I have an American friend who has worked for Britax, Graco and others and actually been heavily involved in developing and constructing car seats half his life. I wish you could hear him explain this, it makes far more sense.
There are also "fluff" factors regarding boosters that help with safety. Things such as lower price, easier install, easier to move to another car, etc. Keeping things simple is usually a good idea regarding car seat safety.
Harness or booster makes little difference regardless what people believe. Which is why it's sad to hear a parent forward face their child at 12 months thinking it's very safe and then spend two months deciding on the best 5 point harness seat since it's "so much safer".
Harnessing and boosters are both safe. Who to believe comes down to trust. I trust what the leading experts here are saying since they have been doing this far longer than anyone else and also have the best safety record of any country regardless of age. Car seat safety has been a real priority here since 1965(!) when myself and other kids started riding rear facing in cars. It would also seem kind of odd that the people who have been obsessed with car seat safety for the past 45 years would choose to use an inferior method of protecting their own children. I don't find the same focus and dedication in other countries, and perhaps most importantly, certainly no good track records.
Whatever people choose to believe regarding harnessing and boosters is fine. Using either one will keep your child safe in the car and hopefully avoid a disaster. As Jools said, just using a seat or seat belt is the most important thing:twocents:
) sits correct like in the 5-Step Test.
