Worth buying a new car for safety features alone?

Hi,
First, thank you all so much for the time you put into these boards. I'm sorry this post is so long; anyone who reads through it all is a saint!

I have two kids in carseats, and I currently drive a 1999 Subaru Forester with 115K miles. No side/side curtain airbags, no stability control, lap belt only in the center position. No LATCH, but I had top tether anchors installed in all three positions. The car is in great shape and ordinarily, I'd drive it into the ground. But I'm trying to determine whether it's worth it to replace it on safety grounds alone. I know it's a very safe car for when it was made, but side impact crashes scare me. I'd love to hear your expert opinions on the child safety advantages of a new car. Money is an issue, but not a prohibitive one.

Here's our situation:
Driving: lots of miles, mostly in heavy traffic on high-speed suburban roads (yikes!). The kids: a four year-old riding outboard in a FF Marathon and an almost one-year old riding center in a RF Roundabout. (Yes, I know it would be better to have the FF Marathon in the center position, but our garage space is so tight that I can get kids in only from one side of the car.) Both seats are installed with belts and are tethered appropriately. The kids ride with me about half the time; the other half of the time they are safely ensconced in my husband's 05 Odyssey. Also, the older child is very tall for her age (44 or 45 inches at 4.25 years old) and although she's got more time in the Marathon, we may have to switch her to a BPB sooner rather than later. Without a shoulder belt, I can't put one in the center position in my current car. Hence, the side impact concerns.

When I do buy a new car, I would greatly prefer to buy another Forester. But despite its excellent side impact scores, it lacks side curtain airbags entirely and lacks side airbags in the middle row. It also lacks stability control. I'm hopeful that the 2007 or 2008 models might have them, but who knows. (I actually emailed Subaru about the lack of side curtain airbags, and they claimed it wasn't necessary because of how high the side airbags go.) For reasons having to do with dogs and garage space, neither the Legacy nor the CRV is ideal for me. I haven't fully explored other options, like the Passat wagon or similar cars. Any new car would need to be about the size of the Forester, and would need cargo space rather than a trunk.

So am I making a safety mistake by holding out another couple of years for a new Forester, hopefully with side curtain airbags and ESC? Or should I bite the bullet and buy something new now? What would you do?

Thanks so much for your patience!

Karen

I replaced a perfectly good 2001 minivan with a 2006 model, mostly to get side curtain airbags and stability control. I guess it comes down to personal preference.

Too bad the Outback VDC won't work, you'd get a little more room than the Forester, too. You can just about be guaranteed the Forester will have these features on the next major update, whenever that is. Of course, a new version may be bigger or have the same issues that are keeping you from the Legacy right now.

The Toyota Highlander, Nissan Murano and Volvo wagons also come to mind.

Also, I wouldn't worry about the center position. There really isn't a lot of data showing it to be significantly safer for properly restrained passengers. In fact some new studies are finding little difference. One reason is apparently because the risk of being hit on the near side in an outboard position is balanced by the lower risk of being even farther if the impact is on the far side.

I just bought a new Forester. I debated on the Forester versus the Outback for the rear SAB alone (and the tiny bit of extra space in the backseat of the Outback) but went with the Forester because really, I didn't like the Outback as much. And because I also knew that by the time I had to have a FF child outboard, it would be at least 5 years from now, and by then I can get a new car!
The Forester doesn't need ESC because it is almost guaranteed it won't roll over in normal driving conditions. There's not even a rollover warning sticker on the visor because it's not a high risk rollover vehicle.
As far as the airbags go, it has combo airbags, which are better than curtains for overall protection. I would rather have combo airbags than curtains alone. These airbags are designed to protect head AND chest, so don't worry about side airbags for the front passenger!
If you want a new Forester, go for it. There is a 3 point belt and headrest for the middle position now, and the back seat has more leg room. You could put your older child in a booster in the center and your baby rear facing outboard.
I don't think it's crazy to trade it in for additional safety features. And I went nuts over the lack or airbags in the rear seats but finally was convinced that, in my case, they wouldn't be that beneficial. And every crash test I saw showed the thing holding up like a tank, with barely the frame bent. I would rather have a structurally sound vehicle without SAB than a less solid vehicle with SAB. I was really leaning towards the Mazda5 (which has three rows of SAB) but went with the Forester because of it's solid crash test results. It is very hard to get a 'good' from IIHS in side impact (almost no vehicles got that without SAB and many vehicles with SAB still didn't get it) so I was very comforted on that. The Outback also didn't score as high as the Forester even WITH the SAB, proving that SAB are a safety feature and definitely save lives, but are not the be all end all.
I'd get the new one for SAB for yourself and your husband, put your older daughter in the center in a booster when the time comes, and your baby outboard and it's a long time to come before you need to really be concerned with SAB for them. And by that time, you can get a new one!

BTW- I think it's awesome that your husband drives a minivan!

Splash said:

The Forester doesn't need ESC because it is almost guaranteed it won't roll over in normal driving conditions. There's not even a rollover warning sticker on the visor because it's not a high risk rollover vehicle.

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All vehicles benefit from ESC, even cars. Rollover an additional risk for taller, less stable vehicles, but ESC helps maintain control in other situations, too. While the Forester is as stable as many minivans and more stable than most SUVs, there is still a real rollover risk. The latest research is here http://www.iihs.org/news/2006/iihs_news_061306.pdf .

Subaru does make stability control an option on the top trim levels of the Outback. Similarly, it will be available on the Forester eventually because it is a valuable safety feature.

As far as the airbags go, it has combo airbags, which are better than curtains for overall protection. I would rather have combo airbags than curtains alone. These airbags are designed to protect head AND chest, so don't worry about side airbags for the front passenger!

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Many vehicles that have curtain airbags also have separate torso airbags for the front seat. The head protection is generally regarded as more important, which is why torso airbags are sometimes omitted. Combo torso/head airbags are not inherently better than a curtain airbag plus a torso airbag. It all depends on the implementation in a particular vehicle. Crash tests are the best way to evaluate this. A 5-star NHTSA side impact rating and a "Good" IIHS side impact rating usually mean it has been implemented properly, regardless of the type of airbags.

Some vehicles provide reasonable protection for the torso with the door and pillar structure, but only glass protects the head in most. That is one reason why it is rare for any vehicles to have torso airbags in back seating rows. Another reason is that there is some concern that side torso airbags could be a risk to out-of-position and unrestrained passengers, especially children. Curtain airbags, on the other hand, pose no risk to properly restrained passengers, including children, and they supplement the door/pillar structure very well in most cases. IIHS research has also shown them to be very effective.

The Outback also didn't score as high as the Forester even WITH the SAB, proving that SAB are a safety feature and definitely save lives, but are not the be all end all.

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The new Legacy sedan and wagon ( http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=602 ) scored a bit better in Structure/safety cage and rear passenger head protection than the Forester ( http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=253 ) , though both received the same "Good" overall rating in the IIHS side impact crash test. The Legacy was also an IIHS Top Safety Pick 2006 Gold. The Outback is untested by the IIHS, though is very similar in design.

Overall, both are safe vehicles. If you have older kids or adults riding regularly in the back seat, I'd pick the Legacy wagon or another model with side curtain airbags. If not, it's pretty much a tossup in terms of safety.

Ah, great things to think about. I actually know someone--not a wild driver by any means--who rolled a Forester. I still think it's a great car; I just wish they'd put side curtain airbags in the rear on the darned thing. (That, and a Tiptronic transmission, but that's not exactly a safety issue ) I know that the newer Forester has the IIHS top rating for side impacts, but in looking at the picture, I see that the rear passenger dummy, who is using a standard lap/shoulder belt, hits its head on the rear pillar. I just can't help wondering how that would work for a child in a BPB who might be leaning forward. And what about broken glass? I know that the head protection on the Marathon would help a lot, but is it enough? For some reason, the side curtain airbags for rear passengers carry a lot of psychological weight with me. I just would feel better knowing they were there. I would also really like ESC. It looks like the Forester wouldn't get those things until at least 2008, or maybe longer. I'm not sure I want to wait that long. Anyway, I probably wouldn't bother to upgrade my perfectly functional car unless I could get significant safety improvements with it. (The Legacy is just a little too long for our garage. I also found overall visibility a bit of a problem, although I'm spoiled by the Forester.)

I'll be driving this new car for a long time (at least 7-8 years), so I need to think about how it will protect kids in RF seats, FF seats, BPB, and perhaps even just lap/shoulder belts if my 4 year old keeps growing at this rate. Splash, perhaps that's why I'm so paranoid about side curtain airbags? Or maybe I secretly envy my husband's Odyssey! (Not really--I love it, but it does feel like I'm driving a boat.)

Darren, at your suggestion, I looked at one of the Volvo wagons. The V50 would suit my needs very well, but I was surprised to see that the IIHS ranks it a little lower for side impact than other cars. (It's actually the S40 that they rate--similar structure, I gather.) It gets an M for torso protection for front seat passengers and an A for overall structure/safety cage. Do you have any thoughts on that? I'm also not sure whether their AWD model can come with ESC. It looks from the website as if you can add a dynamic stability/traction control to any model, but the salesperson I spoke with seemed to disagree. (But she was a little clueless.) I loved the rest of the safety features, though, and the integrated booster seat option is a real plus for older kids, I think. I may be overly wowed by the Volvo safety reputation, but I did like it.

Thanks so much to both of you!

Karen

I was thinking more on the lines of a V70 that is based on the S80 chassis. I'm not very familiar with the V50. Volvo does seem to make their stability control system optional for some reason, sometimes only on the higher trim levels. Seems like they should make it standard.

For smaller wagons, what about the Subaru Impreza and Saab 9-2X? Both are very good all around choices for safety, though I'm not sure if either has stability control or rear side curtain airbags- maybe for 2007?

Along with the Passat wagon you mentioned, the Audi A4 Avant is also a good choice and the A3 wagon should be, also. I believe both have stability control and curtain airbags standard. There's also the Chevy Malibu MAXX wagon to consider- the Malibu Sedan has very good crash results. I don't think it has stability control for 2006, but side curtains are optional on lower trims and standard on the higher trim levels.

Along with the Forester and Legacy, all of these are good choices. It's hard to pick a winner among them.

The SAB are a big thing with me as well. I swore left right and sideways I would NOT buy another vehicle without them.
Well, I didn't. I still got them for the front passengers. Just not the rear.
For me, it was different. As I know Charlie will be RF for a long time, and once FF he can be in the center. Either way, he is in his BV, which provides additional SIP. And we likely won't have another child for 4-5 years, if ever (and we're not in a position that it can just happen unexpectedly!). And even though everyone keeps telling me I will NEVER want to trade it in, I think that in 6-7 years I will be ready for a new car! So I weighed all of that into my decision and ultimately came to the conclusion that while I really wanted SIB for the rear passengers, it just didn't provide enough of a safety advantage for me NOT to buy this vehicle.
Plus, my dad also REALLY wants one. It's his dream car (which is kinda why I bought it as well... I wasn't even looking seriously at Subaru but he went on and on about it, and I liked it as well, but he LOVES it so I know I have an escape route if need be!) so if there came a time when I wanted to get rid of it for any reason, he would probably buy it from me if he hasn't bought himself one by then.

If I were in YOUR situation, knowing that I would be keeping the car until my kid was a teenager, then I probably would opt for something with rear SAB. Even if it meant having to park outside!

As far as the Volvo... I think they've slipped in recent years. Still good cars, yes. But not what they used to be. Or perhaps it's because everyone else has caught up (which I think is more likely). I wouldn't buy anything with any score less than acceptable (besides rear impact. I don't really care about that score). If I car doesn't score at least acceptable for front and side, and 5 stars from NHTSA (not hard to do for NHTSA) then I would not consider it.

If your car is still up to speed and you're happy with it, keep it for a few more years. 2007 is almost identical to 2006 (extra cupholders... oohhh), and I am thinking 2008 won't be that different either. But 2009 I think that SAB for front and rear will be mandatory on all vehicles. ESC I don't like and wouldn't want on a smaller vehicle and would have to think hard about it on a large vehicle. I just don't like the idea of a computer messing with my steering in any way, especially in a crisis situation!

Splash said:

ESC I don't like and wouldn't want on a smaller vehicle and would have to think hard about it on a large vehicle. I just don't like the idea of a computer messing with my steering in any way, especially in a crisis situation!

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ESC doesn't mess with steering system at all, other than having sensors that determine the direction you are steering compared to the direction you are actually going. It uses the brakes in a similar fashion that ABS does. This allows you to maintain steering control in situtations where you might otherwise lose control altogether.

Like ABS, I suppose it is possible that a professional driver could use threshold braking and obtain equal or slightly better results. For the other 99.9% of drivers, stability control is proving to be a large benefit for preventing crashes and fatalities.

Darren, the V70 is too big for me, unfortunately, and the Impreza's features are the same as the Forester's. I'll look into the Saab and Audi wagons, though--thanks for the suggestion!

Splash, the lack of SAB didn't bother me too much until we moved my older daughter outboard and it became evident to me just how little stands between her and a side impact collision. I know she's very safe in her Marathon for now, but it still bothers me. I think it was buying the Odyssey with all its safety features that did me in. It just feels so much safer. I know that doesn't actually make it safer, but it helps mom!

If I knew that the Forester would be putting in rear side curtain airbags soon, I'd wait for them. But there's no telling when they'll get around to it.

The V50 (or rather, the S40) gets Gs from the IIHS for front and rear crashes, and an A overall for side impact. As the rear passenger side impact results are all Gs, I assume that the overall score was brought down by the M on the front side torso. I don't know how to judge that against the Forester's A scores for rear seat head protection and for front seat pelvis/leg protection. The S40 looks slightly better for rear seat passengers; the Forester looks better for front seat passengers. And of course, it's only one type of crash test. The S40/V50 has mostly 5 stars from NHTSA., though with 4 stars for rollover and driver frontal crash.

I hope you enjoy your new Forester. We have four among our immediate family members, and we all love them!